Ellen White on the Sabbath

[Dale]

Lysimachus post #273:

Excerpt:
<< Fact: It was highlighted by the angel in the context of 1844, showing that after 1844, the Sabbath issue would play a pivitol role in the Great Controversy, because that is the most trampled commandment.

Think of your ten fingers. If one of your fingers got hurt the most, would you not go out of your way to take extra precautions to protect that finger?

Likewise, the reason the Sabbath was highlighted was for the very fact that the "controversy" regarding the Sabbath as pivitol, because it has been attacked by Christians more than any of the other Ten Commandments.

That is why the Sabbath issue becomes a test. >>

Your &#8220;Fact&#8221; assumes that the visions of Ellen White are absolute truth, despite her being wrong, wrong, and wrong about issues surrounding the Civil War and slavery, in her lifetime. See my thread,

SDA Prophet Ellen White Flubs the Civil War

Link:
http://www.christianforums.com/t7671276/

You say that Christians have &#8220;attacked&#8221; the sabbath commandment. In fact, American Christians in the 19th century put great stress on observing Sunday rest. They may have gone too far at times.

Reading about the history of the Quakers, in the 19 century, one man was expelled from the Quaker fellowship for playing the piano on Sunday afternoon.

Do the SDA&#8217;s claim that Protestants who laid such stress on Sunday rest will be destroyed by God simply for resting on the wrong day?


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[MoreCoffee]

"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath," Jesus said. The institutions that God has established are for the benefit of mankind. "All things are for your sakes." "Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours; and ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's." 2 Cor. 4:15; 1 Cor. 3:22, 23. The law of Ten Commandments, of which the Sabbath forms a part, God gave to His people as a blessing. "The Lord commanded us," said Moses, "to do all these statutes, to fear the Lord our God, for our good always, that He might preserve us alive." Deut. 6:24. And through the psalmist the message was given to Israel, "Serve the Lord with gladness: come before His presence with singing. Know ye that the Lord He is God: it is He that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are His people, and the sheep of His pasture. Enter into His gates with thanksgiving, and into His courts with praise." Ps. 100:2-4. And of all who keep "the Sabbath from polluting it," the Lord declares, "Even them will I bring to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My house of prayer." Isa. 56:6, 7. (THE DESIRE OF AGES by Ellen White, The Sabbath page 288)​

There's a lot of bible quoting in the above paragraph and only a few words from Ellen White's own pen yet she manages to string together verses and thoughts that are misleading. It is a surprise that she was able to do so. Let's take a look at the misleading statement from her own pen and then, in a later post, see how the passages are used.

Ellen White says, "The law of Ten Commandments, of which the Sabbath forms a part, God gave to His people as a blessing." What is this "law of ten commandments"? There is the law that God gave, it constitutes the contents of the Torah, the five books of Moses but where is this "Law of Ten Commandments" to be found? Not in Genesis, or Exodus, or Leviticus, or Deuteronomy, and most certainly not in Numbers; in these you will find the law and among the laws you will find the ten commandments but you will never find a "Law of Ten Commandments".

By itself, in isolation, Ellen White's statement would be harmless, sometimes people may use the expression "the ten commandments" and "the law" in one breath, as if the two were linked but when one is teaching in writing being careful not to mislead is possible; written statements can be checked and corrected before publishing them, so errors can be corrected and sloppy terminology can be tightened up. And it is significant that in SDA theology the characterisation of the law as being the same thing as the ten commandments is not an innocent mistake or a little bit of sloppy terminology; it is an important plank in their system of belief. One needs to single out the ten commandments as "the moral law" and then make way for a "ceremonial law" and various other subdivisions of the law that SDAs use when explaining the new testament. So Ellen White's words, so harmless on the surface, set the stage for a whole system of biblical interpretation that depends on calling meaning the ten commandments when the new testament writes "the law".​

It would not be unfair to call the ten commandments a summary of the law, something akin to an executive summary for a long legal document. That would be a good description of the place of the ten commandments. They represent the broad principles that the rest of the law fleshes out for the specifics of living in covenant with God. But to make these divisions (between moral, ceremonial and other laws) that are implied by, "The law of Ten Commandments...", is disturbing because of the way it is fleshed out by Ellen White and the SDA church.

So, what would be an relatively unremarkable statement from other hands is, from Ellen White, the tip of an iceberg of prodigious proportions for SDA theology and ethics.

Now I can start to analyse the scriptures used in the paragraph. I'll do that in another post.

 

[Elder 111]

I'll take that as a bit of rhetoric, Elder 111.

Too bad. I get the impression that many think God did the same where the Sabbath is concern.

 

[Elder 111]

Elder111: in post #269:
&#8220;Speculation is not how God's word should be viewed there is no need to do that. God did not work on the Sabbath, He blessed it, sanctified it and made it holy. If that is a labour law for you so be it, certainly not for God.&#8221;

I did not speculate. I posed the thought as a question in an attempt to be gentle.
You say that God did not work on the Sabbath. That&#8217;s impossible. If God ceased to sustain the universe, the entire universe would lapse into nothingness.

You claim that the crucial point in the sabbath commandment is the day of the week. Yet the commandment obviously acts to protect women, servants, laborers, foreigners, and even slaves by giving them a day off. Are all the words in the commandment that deal with women, servants, laborers, foreigners, and slaves just hot air?

Naming a particular day of the week is used to enforce the command that everyone gets a day off.

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There is no implication or mention that this was about labour. God made the day holy, that is what was stated.

 

[mmksparbud]

There is no implication or mention that this was about labour. God made the day holy, that is what was stated.

Ex 20:9-11: 6 days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:but the 7th day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God. In it thou shalt not do any work, thou nor thy son,nor thy daughter,thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle nor thy stranger that is within thy gates. For in 6 days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the 7th day: Wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it.

Sounds like what is stated is that because He ended creating, He blessed the 7th day and we're not do labor---I guess you missed that part.

 

[MoreCoffee]

mmksparbud, it is common for people to miss details.

 

[Elder 111]

Ex 20:9-11: 6 days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:but the 7th day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God. In it thou shalt not do any work, thou nor thy son,nor thy daughter,thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle nor thy stranger that is within thy gates. For in 6 days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the 7th day: Wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it.

Sounds like what is stated is that because He ended creating, He blessed the 7th day and we're not do labor---I guess you missed that part.

We are not to labour for our own interest. My point is that it was not given for that purpose, you have been carrying on as thought it is some king of labour law. It is that it is a Holy Day hallowed by God, and God has requested as such that we work not on that day for then our focus would not be on Him and worship.

 

[mmksparbud]

We are not to labour for our own interest. My point is that it was not given for that purpose, you have been carrying on as thought it is some king of labour law. It is that it is a Holy Day hallowed by God, and God has requested as such that we work not on that day for then our focus would not be on Him and worship.

No, not a labor law, it's an anti-labor law---And yes, we are not to do what pleases us, but what pleases God and commune with Him--the purpose is to set all wordly things aside and be one with Him--which we really can't do when we're engaged in work as we must concentrate on what we are doing most of the time. Though we do always have Him in our hearts and commune with Him whenever we can, but sabbath is His.

 

[mmksparbud]

mmksparbud, it is common for people to miss details.

Yah--but you know what they say--God is in the details!

 

[MoreCoffee]

Yah--but you know what they say--God is in the details!

I am fairly sure that the adage is "the devil is in the detail"

 

[mmksparbud]

I am fairly sure that the adage is "the devil is in the detail"

The devil????!!!! You're kidding!! Have you any idea how many years I've been under the impression that it was God??---Why would it be the devil, he's got no love for perfection, unless it's perfect evil--God is the ultimate mathametician, physicst, whatever, He gets into math in a big way, everything being just so. Tell me you're pulling my leg---I don't know that I can survive this

 

[MoreCoffee]

The devil is in the detail, I suspect, is a reference to the fine print, and its ancient equivalents, in contract law. The person who unwisely signs a contract may find to his/her hurt that the detail traps them in some unwanted and undesirable arrangement.

 

[dollarsbill]

I fancied myself to have a sense of humor and to be relatively intelligent---this however, I don't gets

It's about those who preach the Law don't obey the Law.

 

[MoreCoffee]

"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath," Jesus said. The institutions that God has established are for the benefit of mankind. "All things are for your sakes." "Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours; and ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's." 2 Cor. 4:15; 1 Cor. 3:22, 23. The law of Ten Commandments, of which the Sabbath forms a part, God gave to His people as a blessing. "The Lord commanded us," said Moses, "to do all these statutes, to fear the Lord our God, for our good always, that He might preserve us alive." Deut. 6:24. And through the psalmist the message was given to Israel, "Serve the Lord with gladness: come before His presence with singing. Know ye that the Lord He is God: it is He that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are His people, and the sheep of His pasture. Enter into His gates with thanksgiving, and into His courts with praise." Ps. 100:2-4. And of all who keep "the Sabbath from polluting it," the Lord declares, "Even them will I bring to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My house of prayer." Isa. 56:6, 7. (THE DESIRE OF AGES by Ellen White, The Sabbath page 288)
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Let's look at the passages Ellen White partially quotes in the above quote and see if she is using them deceptively or not.

2 Corinthians 4:7-18 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. 8 We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; 9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed; 10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. 11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh. 12 So then death worketh in us, but life in you. 13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak; 14 Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you. 15 For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God. 16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day. 17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory; 18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

1 Corinthians 3:18-23 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. 20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain. 21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours; 22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours; 23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

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Ellen White starts the paragraph with the words of Christ taken from Mark 2:27

Mark 2:23-28 And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn. 24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful? 25 And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him? 26 How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him? 27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: 28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

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She then comments "The institutions that God has established are for the benefit of mankind" and then follows the quotes from 2 Corinthians and 1 Corinthians. Do these passages have any genuine link, are they addressing the same subject; more specifically, are they about the sabbath as Ellen White implies? The answer is no.

The passage from 2 Corinthians from which Ellen White first quotes is about Paul's ministry and not about sabbath observance. In the letter Paul speaks of his ministry from 4:7 to 5:10 in this passage Paul confronts the difficulty that his present existence does not appear glorious at all; it is marked instead by suffering and death. He deals with this by developing the topic already announced in 2 Cor 3:3,6, asserting his faith in the presence and ultimate triumph of life, in his own and every Christian existence, despite the experience of death. Clearly the 7th day sabbath is not his theme despite Ellen White's attempt to link his words to that day.

The passage from 1 Corinthians from which Ellen White quotes is about the role of God's ministers. It is not about the sabbath. In 1 Corinthians 3:5-4:5 Paul observes that the Corinthians tend to evaluate their leaders by the criteria of human wisdom and to exaggerate their importance. Paul views the role of the apostles in the light of his theology of spiritual gifts (cf. 1 Cor 12–14, where the charism of the apostle heads the lists). The essential aspects of all spiritual gifts (1 Cor 12:4–6 presents them as gifts of grace, as services, and as modes of activity) are exemplified by the apostolate, which is a gift of grace (1 Cor 3:10) through which God works (1 Cor 3:9) and a form of service (1 Cor 3:5) for the common good (elsewhere expressed by the verb “build up,” suggested here by the image of the building, 1 Cor 3:9). The apostles serve the church, but their accountability is to God and to Christ (1 Cor 4:1–5).
​

So what is Ellen White doing when she links the passage from Mark (which is about the sabbath) and the passages from 2 Corinthians and 1 Corinthians (which are not about the sabbath)?

Immediately after the quotes Ellen White says, "The law of Ten Commandments, of which the Sabbath forms a part, God gave to His people as a blessing." Clearly she thinks there is a link between the passages and the ten commandments, but I ask you, the reader, to judge, is there any such link or is Ellen White misusing the scriptures to make a point about doctrine?

 

[Dale]

Ex 20:9-11: 6 days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:but the 7th day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God. In it thou shalt not do any work, thou nor thy son,nor thy daughter,thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle nor thy stranger that is within thy gates. For in 6 days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the 7th day: Wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it.

Sounds like what is stated is that because He ended creating, He blessed the 7th day and we're not do labor---I guess you missed that part.

Thanks for seeing the part about labor.

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[Dale]

Lysimachus,

You are trying to tell us that Americans were attacking the sabbath commandment when God called Ellen White to be a prophet.

It seems that Americans went to great lengths to preserve and protect a day of rest. It&#8217;s even in the US Constitution. When Congress passes a bill and it is presented to the President, he has ten days, excepting Sundays, to sign or veto it. Excepting Sundays effectively gives the President twelve days to make up his mind if you want to look at it that way.


&#8220;If any bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the same shall be a law, in like Manner as if he had signed it &#8230;&#8221;
--From the US Constitution, Article 1, Section 7

You&#8217;re not giving early Americans credit for the day of rest that they did celebrate.


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[bbbbbbb]

I am fairly sure that the adage is "the devil is in the detail"

Mies Van Der Rohe, a twentieth-century Modern architect, has been credited with the adage, "God is in the details." Your adage predates his.

Mies also said, "Less is more." and a later pundit modified it to say, "Less is a bore." which, I think, fairly sums up Modern architecture.

 

[mmksparbud]

Mies Van Der Rohe, a twentieth-century Modern architect, has been credited with the adage, "God is in the details." Your adage predates his.

Mies also said, "Less is more." and a later pundit modified it to say, "Less is a bore." which, I think, fairly sums up Modern architecture.

Oh, thank God!! I can pick myself up from the floor again!

 

[MoreCoffee]

Oh, thank God!! I can pick myself up from the floor again!

It is possible that this modern architect guy was confused about god and the devil

 

[Dale]

Why is it hard to believe that God is concerned about working people and their families? Why is it hard to believe that the sabbath commandment contains an element of labor law, when labor law occurs frequently in the Old Testament?

&#8220;Do not take advantage of a hired worker who is poor and needy, whether that worker is a fellow Israelite or a foreigner residing in one of your towns. Pay them their wages each day before sunset, because they are poor and are counting on it. Otherwise they may cry to the Lord against you and you will be guilty of sin.&#8221;
--Deuteronomy 24:14-15 NIV

The same point is repeated in Leviticus.

&#8220;Do not defraud or rob your neighbor. Do not hold back the wages of a hired worker overnight.&#8221;
--Leviticus 19:13 NIV

&#8220;Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,
His upper rooms by injustice,
Making his own people work for nothing,
Not paying them for their labor.&#8221;
--Jeremiah 22: 13 NIV

&#8220;So I will come to put you on trial. I will be quick to testify against sorcerers, adulterers, and perjurers, against those who defraud laborers of their wages, who oppress the widows and the fatherless, and deprive the foreigners among you of justice, but do not fear me, says the Lord Almighty.&#8221;
--Micah 5:3 NIV


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