Ellen White on the Sabbath

[Stryder06]

Ellen G. White is a false prophet...bottom line. Her vision of the 4th commandment with a "halo around it" was her own vision...it was not from God at all because God doesn't contradict his Word...He confirms it.

No one has to keep the sabbath any longer. That is very clear in scripture.

Do I need to list the rest of her false prophecies?

That's interesting that she would make up a vision like that considering that she wasn't keeping the Sabbath at the time she received it.

It's also funny how so many people who converted to Adventism did so based on her writings, and they had no clue that she was suppose to be a prophet.

What's also funny is that you won't find a single scripture saying you don't have to keep the sabbath. What you will find is a mountain of commentary from individuals stating that they don't have to because they are "Gentiles".

 

[MoreCoffee]

The law contained shadows which pointed to Christ. All of these were seen in the sacrifices that had to be offered. The certain festivals and the Sabbath however point to something that has not yet come. Even in Hebrews we read that there remains a Sabbath rest.

Yes, even in Hebrews we do read that there remains a sabbath rest, the one that Israel was unable to obtain because of their unbelief but that is open and available for Christians through Christ; in fact, Christ is himself that sabbath rest that remains and we enter his rest by becoming united to him in baptism as saint Paul explains in Romans 6.

The issue isn't with Paul and inspiration, but with man and his interpretation

That is true, but I think that the men with the interpretive difficulties are the ones who want to live according to the dictates of the law contrary to Apostolic teaching. I guess that is where you and I differ most deeply.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Nope. But I did find a thread discussion on it.

http://www.christianforums.com/t4651075/
Book Review--Putting the Sabbath to Rest--Col 2:16

Originally Posted by tall73
Book Review!
Putting the Sabbath to Rest: A Scriptural Study of Colossians 2:16 by Ron Du Preez (Member of the Biblical Research Institute).


So that you know where I am coming from on the topic, I started reading the book at least tentatively in the camp of the newer alternative view, agreeing with Rodriguez, etc.
I came to this view about a year ago as a result of a debate in GT in which a Sabbatarian (but not Adventist) pointed out to me the logical order in the text from yearly to monthly, to weekly.

I would recommend the book. It speaks on a neglected aspect (linguistics) of an important Sabbatarian text.

The mystery sabbatarian revealed

Originally Posted by oldsage This does sound interesting, I personally hold to the yearly, monthly, weekly view because I think it makes the best sense, but I am always willing to look at the Traditional Adventist view on this topic.

Chris

Originally Posted by tall73

You are the unnamed Sabbatarian ​

​

 

[Lysimachus]

Ellen G. White is a false prophet...bottom line. Her vision of the 4th commandment with a "halo around it" was her own vision...it was not from God at all because God doesn't contradict his Word...He confirms it.

No one has to keep the sabbath any longer. That is very clear in scripture.

Do I need to list the rest of her false prophecies?

Your reasoning here does not compute. So thus, if a prophet has a vision that was not shown in Scripture, this invalidates the prophet's vision?

With this reason, the prophet John would be a false prophet, for he did not see a beast with 1 head as did Daniel, but a beast with 7 heads. Every prophet in every age adds to truth, but does not eclipse or replace it. I could site thousands of events in visions from every prophet which were not mentioned in the previous prophets visions.

What makes something "contrary" to scripture is when the Scriptures clearly say the opposite. But to say that there was a light glowing on the 4th commandment is NOT, and I repeat NOT a "contradiction" of Scripture, but elaboration of details not mentioned in the scripture.

Ellen White was not a false prophet.

She did not fail in ONE single prediction. And all the false and erroneous charges that you may list where she failed in, I promise you that you will LOSE!

EVERY. SINGLE. ARGUMENT. AGAINST. HER. HAS. BEEN. THOROUGHLY. REFUTED. AND. DISMANTLED. ON. THE. WEB.

If one is honest, they will take time to read the refutations of the accusations against her.

Trust me, there is not one single criticism against her that I have not heard that has not been thoroughly dismantled and refuted.

So if you try to post it, just know that the answer will be found somewhere buried in the links I'm about to post below:

 

[Stryder06]

Yes, even in Hebrews we do read that there remains a sabbath rest, the one that Israel was unable to obtain because of their unbelief but that is open and available for Christians through Christ; in fact, Christ is himself that sabbath rest that remains and we enter his rest by becoming united to him in baptism as saint Paul explains in Romans 6.

The sabbath rest Israel didn't receive wasn't the 7th day rest that was already given them. It was the rest the faithful receive when they come to Christ.

That is true, but I think that the men with the interpretive difficulties are the ones who want to live according to the dictates of the law contrary to Apostolic teaching. I guess that is where you and I differ most deeply.

I would actually say that our disagreement has more to do with tradition than anything else. Consider that our difference here isn't even about the law, but about a particular commandment. I would think you agree with the other 9, and think they are binding upon the Christian.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The mystery sabbatarian revealed

I wonder if the Seventh Day Aventists borrowed the yearly/monthly/weekly observation from the footnotes in my bible, the footnotes go back to the first edition in 1971 and must have had there genesis within Catholic scholarship long before making it into the footnotes of the New American Bible. The footnote reads:

[2:16] Festival or new moon or sabbath: yearly, monthly, and weekly observances determined by religious powers associated with a calendar set by the heavenly bodies, sun, moon, and stars (cf. Col 2:8).
​

 

[Lysimachus]

The Following Links are Main Portal Links for Defending Ellen White:

Primary Main Portal Ellen White Defense Websites:

1. Welcome // Ellen White Answers
2. Ellen G. White® Estate: Issues & Answers Regarding Inspiration, Life and Work of Ellen G. White®
3. The Real Truth About Ellen White
4. Ellen G. White: The Ellen White information website
5. EllenWhiteDefend Home Page
6. Ellen White
7. Did Ellen White Contradict the Bible over 50 times?
8. Adventist Defense League
9. Defending the Faith
10. The Ellen G. White Defense League
11. Plagiarism
12. Ellen White Under Fire

There are so many more, but these should suffice for now.

I also recommend read the following books:

Table of Contents of "A Response to the Video"

(you can read it online free, but I recommend you purchase the hard-copy for $10. You can get more out of it when reading it in hard-copy form)

Ellen White Under Fire:Identifying the Mistakes of Her Critics - Books

The following links are primary designed to refute the “Plagiarism” charge against Ellen White:

I’m going to provide some links that completely and utterly dismantle and demolish all possible notions of “plagiarism” associated with Sister White, and I trust that those who have questions concerning Sister White in this respect will take out time to do some honest investigation into the following research:

1. An Analysis of the Literary Dependency of Ellen White:
INDEX FILES on Charge of Plagiarism against E.G.White

2. Answers to the Plagiarism Charge (numerous links from this website too):
Answers to the Plagiarism Charge // Ellen White Answers

3. Ellen White Did Not Plagiarize – and here are the facts to prove it:
http://www.ellenwhitedefend.com/Defense/Plagiarized.pdf

4. Was Ellen White Really a Plagiarist Examining the Evidence:
Plagiarism

5. Ellen White Under Fire (Purchase Book – 2010) – by Jud Lake:
Ellen White Under Fire:Identifying the Mistakes of Her Critics - Books

6. 101 Questions About Ellen White and Her Writings – by Elder William Fagal:
101 Questions About Ellen G. White

7. Messenger of the Lord (Purchase Book – 640 pages)- by Herbert E. Douglas:
Messenger of the Lord
8. ELLEN WHITE Falsely accused of Plagiarism:
Ellen White’s Alleged Plagiarism

9. Did Ellen White Plagiarize?:
Did Ellen White Plagiarize?

10. Misrepresenting Ellen White:
Patriachs and Prophets Plagerised?

11. Fannie Bolton and Her Allegation – True or False:
FANNIE BOLTON AND HER ALLEGATIONS AGAINST ELLEN WHITE

12. Was Ellen White a Plagiarist?:
Ellen G. White: Was she a Plagiarist?

At the end of the day, it becomes difficult to see how the critics really have any leg to stand on concerning their charges against Misses White.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The sabbath rest Israel didn't receive wasn't the 7th day rest that was already given them. It was the rest the faithful receive when they come to Christ.

I think you may be misreading Hebrews chapters 3 and 4. I'd post them here but I am sure you have them in your KJV bible.

I would actually say that our disagreement has more to do with tradition than anything else. Consider that our difference here isn't even about the law, but about a particular commandment. I would think you agree with the other 9, and think they are binding upon the Christian.

You'd be somewhat incorrect in thinking those things. But since I have already posted extensively on the ten commandments from the Catechism of the Catholic Church there's no need to repeat.

 

[Stryder06]

I think you may be misreading Hebrews chapters 3 and 4. I'd post them here but I am sure you have them in your KJV bible.

I have them. I've read them. And I'd say the same to you

You'd be somewhat incorrect in thinking those things. But since I have already posted extensively on the ten commandments from the catechism of the Catholic Church there's no need to repeat.

Thank you. Just as you have no desire to read The Great Controversy, I have little desire to read explanations from the catechism.

 

[Lysimachus]

Jud Lake – Ellen White and her Critics:
Ellen White Summit, November 2005 (Part 3 of 8) - YouTube

Jud Lake - Ellen White and Inspiration:
Ellen White Summit, November 2005 (part 4 of 8) - YouTube

Jud Lake – Ellen White Under Fire – Plagiarism:
Jud Lake - Ellen White Under Fire - Plagerism on Vimeo

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

You'd be somewhat incorrect in thinking those things. But since I have already posted extensively on the ten commandments from the catechism of the Catholic Church there's no need to repeat.

Thank you. Just as you have no desire to read The Great Controversy, I have little desire to read explanations from the catechism.

I have no desire to read either one of 'em

...

 

[MoreCoffee]

I have them. I've read them. And I'd say the same to you

...

What is your take on this then?

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. Hebrews 4:1-11 KJV
​

Notice all those things about the 7th day? How is the passage not about the weekly 7th day rest then?

 

[Elder 111]

I have no interesting in becoming a Seventh Day Adventist. It is not my style

Are your actions to measured by your interest or what you like or the truth and will of God?
Should it not be that you would act according to what is of God?

 

[mmksparbud]

Well--most people pick a religion that fits into their lifestyle--trying to fit into God's lifestyle can involve giving up thoughts and things that are too dear for some to part with, in can be highly inconvinient.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Well--most people pick a religion that fits into their lifestyle--trying to fit into God's lifestyle can involve giving up thoughts and things that are too dear for some to part with, in can be highly inconvinient.

One ought not to read into a remark like "It is not my style" some kind of declaration about "life-style". The comment means only that joining a religion (such as Seventh Day Adventism) that is premised on the presence of a prophet from the 19th century is contrary to my beliefs. The information that some of the SDA participants on GT have provided about SDA beliefs and practices also informs my beliefs about the SDA church. The net result is that I have no interesting in becoming a Seventh Day Adventist.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Are your actions to measured by your interest or what you like or the truth and will of God?
Should it not be that you would act according to what is of God?

Let's not make this thread into an analysis of one of its participants, please.

This thread is a paragraph by paragraph analysis of what Ellen White wrote in a chapter on THE SABBATH in book called THE DESIRE OF AGES. The paragraphs are presented in post 1, 6, 11, 25, 41, 42, 58, 61, 65, 77, 88, 96, 99, 105, 118, 142.

 

[MoreCoffee]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]And when he was departed thence, he went into their synagogue: And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him. And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days. Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other. Matthew 12:9-13 KJV[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The spies dared not answer Christ in the presence of the multitude, for fear of involving themselves in difficulty. They knew that He had spoken the truth. Rather than violate their traditions, they would leave a man to suffer, while they would relieve a brute because of the loss to the owner if it were neglected. Thus greater care was shown for a dumb animal than for man, who is made in the image of God. This illustrates the working of all false religions. They originate in man's desire to exalt himself above God, but they result in degrading man below the brute. Every religion that wars against the sovereignty of God defrauds man of the glory which was his at the creation, and which is to be restored to him in Christ. Every false religion teaches its adherents to be careless of human needs, sufferings, and rights. The gospel places a high value upon humanity as the purchase of the blood of Christ, and it teaches a tender regard for the wants and woes of man. The Lord says, "I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir." Isa. 13:12. (THE DESIRE OF AGES by Ellen White, The Sabbath, pages 286 & 287)[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty. Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt: And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames. Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger. And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land. Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished. Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it. Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children.Isaiah 13:6-18 KJV[/FONT]
​

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Ellen White is still speaking about the passage from saint Matthew's gospel (Matthew 12:9-13), she speaks of the synagogue officials as spies, which is hardly likely to have been their role, they were in fact the officials who would normally attend the particular synagogue that Jesus attended on that 7th day (sabbath). It is clear their their intent was unfriendly as the evangelist notes with the words “And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.” So Ellen White's characterisation, while not accurate, is in keeping with their purpose.[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The remainder of the paragraph from Ellen White contains a series of statement about “false religion” which are, by and large, true enough but at the end of the paragraph Ellen misunderstands a passage from Isaiah, apparently thinking that the words “I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir” back up her statements about the gospel's placing “a high value upon humanity as the purchase of the blood of Christ, and it teaches a tender regard for the wants and woes of man.” The passage is, however, an oracle about Babylon and the verse that Ellen White quotes speaks of the scarcity of men in depopulated lands. If one were to take Ellen White's written works as prophetic, in some sense, then this kind of erroneous treatment of a passage ought not to happen. Even an ordinary commentary ought to pay attention to the context and not misapply a verse in an effort to bolster the author's theme.[/FONT]

 

[Lysimachus]

One ought not to read into a remark like "It is not my style" some kind of declaration about "life-style". The comment means only that joining a religion (such as Seventh Day Adventism) that is premised on the presence of a prophet from the 19th century is contrary to my beliefs. The information that some of the SDA participants on GT have provided about SDA beliefs and practices also informs my beliefs about the SDA church. The net result is that I have no interesting in becoming a Seventh Day Adventist.

lol, you have no interest in becoming a Seventh-Day Adventist? Seriously? You're kidding! Why, I would have never guessed!

 

[Lysimachus]

With all due respect, MoreCoffee, I find your EGW paragraph analyses rather boring---making it extremely difficult to make heads or tails as to what your issue is with them in relation to the scriptures. I read through them, but maybe I am just mentally ill, or have a mental disease? Maybe I am not just not smart enough? Yet I cannot help but feel a sense of satisfaction that your "analyses" are not proving much damage to the honest passerby, or one who is seeking for truth and does not know where to stand, for if your analyses are too difficult for even me to understand, I doubt they will serve as tools to convince these readers of her "disagreement" with Scriptures.

While you will no doubt disagree with me, I am of the opinion that you are simply stretching to great lengths to derive incongruities with her writings in contrast to the scriptures.

 

[MoreCoffee]

lol, you have no interest in becoming a Seventh-Day Adventist? Seriously? You're kidding! Why, I would have never guessed!

The post that you quoted is addressed to mmksparbud.