Elijah and heaven

Dave Ulchers · Apr 9, 2002

If Jesus is the only way to get to heaven, what about Elijah?

Hervey · Apr 9, 2002

Its very simple -- Elijah is not in heaven --- he as well as others, need to wait for one of the two resurrections !

Love IN Christ - Hervey

Christi · Apr 9, 2002

2 Kings 2:1
"When the Lord was about to take Elijah up to heaven in a whirlwind, Elijah and Elisha were on their way home from Gilgal."
2 Kings 2:11
"As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind."

Hervey · Apr 9, 2002

The word heaven can be used figuratively or literally.

Here in second Kings it is used figuratively, not literally.

People who go up into the heavens when they fly in airplanes come back to earth. Anything above the earth is heaven.

In Genesis chapter one, the firmament is called heaven. The firmament separates the waters above and the waters below the firmament. The firmament is heaven. This is the figurative heaven, not the literal heaven. The literal heaven was in Genesis 1:1.

Figurative heaven - Acts 14:17 - "gave us rain from heaven"

Literal heaven - I Peter 3:22 - "Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God ; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him "

Elisha knew --- II Kings 2:16 - "ye shall not send" -- the sons of the prophets wanted to go and find the body of Elijah, but Elisha knew they would not find the body, because finding the body of Elijah was not what was important. What was important , was where the Spirit of the Lord was, and it was upon Elisha now.

Elijah still awaits one of the two resurrections.

Love IN Christ - Hervey

Dave Ulchers · Apr 9, 2002

Follow ups: but wasn't John the Baptist Elijah? If yes, how did his soul get recycled?

Hervey -- are you saying no one is in heaven now, or only those unblemished who died after Jesus was crucified? Whose teachings do you follow?

Hervey · Apr 9, 2002

David:

I will do my best to answer your questions.

I follow what the Word of God says (.)

Christ is the only one who has been literally raised from the dead "and " has ascended up into heaven.

I Corinth. 15:21 - "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept"

At the "gathering " -- I Corinth. 15:23 - "But every man in his own order : Christ the firstfruits ; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming (gathering)"

I Thess. 4:16 - "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout , with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God, and the dead in Christ shall rise first"

Love IN Christ - Hervey

ZiSunka · Apr 9, 2002

Elijah's faith in God made him worthy of being taken directly to heaven,without having to die first. Only Elijah and Enoch enjoyed this kind of ascension.

But it was their faith that got them in, not anything else.

Remember, before Jesus's incarnation, faith in God WAS the same as faith in Christ. They are one in the same, no divisions.

Hervey · Apr 9, 2002

LL:

Everything you just said does not line up with the Word of God ! It is all a myth.

By what you are saying, you are claiming that Elijah and Enoch had greater faith than did King David. And in Acts 2:34 - "For David is not ascended into the heavens : --- verse 29 - "For David is dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day"

No man can have their own faith to get into heaven !!

By your claim, this would mean, that one gets to go to heaven by "their own faith " .

But what it says in Galatians will prove you wrong --->

Galatians 3:22 - "the "promise" by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe"

Verse 24 - "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster until Christ, that we might be justified by faith"

Verse 25 - "But after that faith is come "

The faith of Jesus Christ had not come until this time, and before, was the faith in God by one's own faith. Read Hebrews chapter 11. Faith pleases God, even one's own faith, but the faith of Christ had not come yet, until the day of pentecost.

Plus what I said in my previous post will also prove what you said to be wrong. Re-read my previous post as well !

L I C - Hervey

allieisme · Apr 9, 2002

~~~~~Hervey -- are you saying no one is in heaven now, or only those unblemished who died after Jesus was crucified? Whose teachings do you follow?

THIS IS WHAT I WANT TO KNOW...I've been trying to find the answer to this for a week or so

Christi · Apr 9, 2002

If God took Elijah to heaven (meaning the sky), what did he do with him, Hervey? Where is he now? If he is waiting for the resurrection, where is he waiting? I don't understand this at all. I always thought when you died you went to heaven or hell. If that is not true, okay. But, that still doesn't tell me what happened to Elijah. DaveUlchers, do you know the answer to this, and you are just checking to see if we do?

Hervey · Apr 9, 2002

Christi:

Why are you concerned with where is the body of Elijah ? Is there a reason to know where his body landed ?

When you die, you "wait " for one of the two resurrections to take place.

The dead in Christ shall rise "first " and no one else until after then. In fact , many years after that. Not until the resurrection of the dead .

Ref: I Corinth. 15:23 and verses 29 & 30 & verse 32 and I Thess. 4:16.

The second resurrection - resurrection of the dead, takes place , as recorded in Revelation 20:12 & 13

L I C - Hervey

Christi · Apr 9, 2002

Well, I am not particularly concerned except for the fact that it makes no sense whatsoever for God to take him into the sky in a chariot of fire, with horses of fire just to DROP him somewhere! Does it?

Dave Ulchers · Apr 9, 2002

Originally posted by Christi
DaveUlchers, do you know the answer to this, and you are just checking to see if we do?

Not this time!!

Christi · Apr 9, 2002

You realize this will drive me crazy till we find him, right? (*sigh* Life used to be so simple!)

Blindfaith · Apr 9, 2002

Remember, before Jesus's incarnation, faith in God WAS the same as faith in Christ. They are one in the same, no divisions.

I think what LL is saying is that those of the OT times who believed and had faith in the fact that the Messiah was most definitely coming, are considered "saved" like those of us who accept Christ now, after he had already made His first appearance.

If this isn't what you're trying to say LL, please let me know

Dave, why would you believe that John the Baptist was Elijah in another life? Wouldn't that be incarnation (or whatever the word is)? As far as I've read or have heard during sermons, the only incarnation would have been Jesus.

As far as where Elijah is, I really don't know. The new bodies that will be in heaven one day aren't there yet, but I believe that the deceased souls are. What that looks like exactly, I don't know, nor does anyone else for that matter (IMHO). But, the story of Elijah is different. Isn't that just like God to keep us on our toes?

Peace,
Terri

Dave Ulchers · Apr 9, 2002

Originally posted by blindfaith
Dave, why would you believe that John the Baptist was Elijah in another life?

Well, once upon a time there was this guy names Jesus and he said a lot of things... er... I remember something about nine inch nails and a cross... er... well I forget the rest, but I do recall this guy Jesus saying John the Baptist is Elijah.

As far as I've read or have heard during sermons, the only incarnation would have been Jesus.

OK, I kid, I kid. See Matthew 11:14, Matthew 17:11-13(Mark 9:12-13), Luke 1:17. Jesus said John is Elijah, but oddly, John himself didn't admit to it per John 1:21.

It is confusing!

Blindfaith · Apr 9, 2002

Hmm....well, I guess I'm a gonna go look up those scriptures then, aren't I?

Thanks for posting those, I really do appreciate it.

Hervey · Apr 10, 2002

Dave U:

Those verses you gave us ---- That was Jesus Christ talking about himself ,not John the baptist.

Figuratively speaking -- Jesus Christ was the Elijah to come, and has already come.

Elijah was know as --- "the Prophet" - that was to return. Malachi 4:5

L I C - Hervey

Dave Ulchers · Apr 10, 2002

If some people wouldn't study their Bibles in a darkroom while wearing sunglasses, I wouldn't have to type so much.

OK, here's Matthew 11:6f

As they were going off, Jesus began to speak to the crowds about John, "What did you go out to the desert to see? A reed swayed by the wind? Then what did you go out to see? Someone dressed in fine clothing? Those who wear fine clothing are in royal palaces. Then why did you go out? To see a prophet?

"Yes, I tell you, and more than a prophet. This is the one about whom it is written: 'Behold, I am sending my messenger ahead of you; he will prepare your way before you.' Amen, I say to you, among those born of women there has been none greater than John the Baptist; yet the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

"From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent are taking it by force. All the prophets and the law prophesied up to the time of John. And if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah, the one who is to come. Whoever has ears ought to hear."

Matthew 17:11-13

Then the disciples asked him, "Why do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?"

He said in reply, "Elijah will indeed come and restore all things; but I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him but did to him whatever they pleased. So also will the Son of Man suffer at their hands."

Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist.

And finally from Luke 1:

But the angel said to him, "Do not be afraid, Zechariah, because your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you shall name him John. And you will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth, for he will be great in the sight of (the) Lord. He will drink neither wine nor strong drink. He will be filled with the holy Spirit even from his mother's womb, and he will turn many of the children of Israel to the Lord their God. He will go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah to turn the hearts of fathers toward children and the disobedient to the understanding of the righteous, to prepare a people fit for the Lord."

Got it?

Hervey · Apr 10, 2002

Dave U:

Elisha also had the power of Elijah, because he had the Spirit of God upon him.

I explained already the other verses, but let me explain to you Luke 1:17

The NT is a mirror image of the OT, and John the bapitst was the Elisha , and Jesus Christ was the Elijah , in the mirror image.

Stop reading what you think you see with your eyes, and start looking at the spiritual !

Remember ! ! Elisha had the same power (doubled) upon him that Elijah had. Read First and second Kings chapters 19 in I Kings, and chapters 2 thru chapter 13 in II Kings.

The Apostle Paul told us that everything written aforetime was for our learning. So start learning by reading the OT. Compare the two prophets to the two prohets in the gospels. John the baptist and Jesus Christ. You will find that John the baptist is the mirror image of Elisha and not Elijah. And you will find, that Jesus Christ is the mirror image of Elijah , and not Elisha.

Matthew 11:14 is Jesus Christ speaking about himself, Not John !!

I can help you with your lack of knowledge in this spiritual area.

Love IN Christ - Hervey

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