Electric vehicles refuse to function in sub-zero temperatures. Who'da thunk it?

[Wolseley]

I find this sad and hilarious at the same time:

Virtue-signaling liberalism is fighting another losing battle with reality.

On Wednesday, the Minnesota-focused news outlet MinnPost reported that several of the state's largest cities have encountered significant obstacles in their quest to achieve planet-friendly public transit.

Frigid temperatures and a myriad of other problems have plagued Duluth and the Twin Cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul during their transition to zero-emission buses.

In subzero conditions -- a staple of Minnesota winters -- electric buses operate at only a fraction of their supposed 150-mile capacity.

Drew Kerr, spokesman for Twin Cities Metro Transit, explained that charged buses travel far shorter distances than manufacturers advertised.

Duluth spokesman Dave Clark noted that the city has experienced significant problems with charging stations.

“They would fail. They would not perform. They would experience malfunctions, glitches. They were extremely problematic right out of the gate,” Clark said.
Furthermore, Duluth's electric bus fleet has provided inadequate comfort by failing to keep riders warm in winter.

Meanwhile, the Twin Cities' fleet has proven comparatively unreliable. In Minneapolis-St. Paul, electric buses have broken down at twice the rate of traditional diesel-powered buses.

MSN

 

[timothyu]

And this during a relatively mild winter for MN?

 

[chevyontheriver]

I find this sad and hilarious at the same time:

MSN

You need to keep the battery warm. Which uses electricity from the battery. Wait until it hits 40 below. The busses will be able to get out of the garage only to have to turn around and recharge. Or they will have to pull a charging trailer with a big diesel engine to keep the bus going. Somebody didn't think this through. An electric bus would do well in Texas or Florida. Not Minnesota.

Minnesota did once have a successful fleet of electric public transportation vehicles. That was the Minneapolis and St. Paul electric trolley car system. Back before busses. It worked. It used overhead transmission lines and no batteries. But that was chucked for the more 'modern' diesel busses. Bad move. Oh well.

Duluth is a city built on the slope of a massive hill. You are either going up or down that hill for almost everything. Great charging up when coming down the hill, but lousy going up.

I drove an electric vehicle a zero degrees. It was harrowing. Great in the Summer. Great in Spring and Fall. Poor in the winter. Awful when it got really cold. Somebody with brains should have known that about the Minnesota busses. But then Minnesota government is not at all what it used to be 50 years ago.

 

[Michie]

Over 36,000 gallons of water used for electric vehicle fire on I-65

An electric vehicle crashed and caught fire Monday night in Autauga County.

www.wsfa.com

 

[chevyontheriver]

Over 36,000 gallons of water used for electric vehicle fire on I-65

An electric vehicle crashed and caught fire Monday night in Autauga County.

www.wsfa.com

I've seen a gasoline powered car fire and it is a sight to behold, with melted asphalt and damaged concrete. However they are powered, automobiles burn dramatically when they finally do start on fire. I never saw one explode like they do in the movies.

 

[Tuur]

I find this sad and hilarious at the same time:

MSN

The reduction in range looks from 50% - 53%. That's more than the 40% reduction happened to see reported elsewhere last week.

Propane reminds me of a dimly recalled incident in Canada in the 1970s. During the Arab Oil Embargo, there was an interest in alternate fuels, from propane to hydrogen. Propane powered busses were tried in various locations. FWIW, it does work, and trucks used to fill business and residential propane tanks run off the propane they haul (at least the local ones do). The problem was fill-ups, and then there was a tragedy in Canada where a propane tank on a bus ruptured in an accident, with catastrophic results. That, as I dimly recalled, pretty much ended propane powered busses in Canada. Have heard a Canadian mention the same incident, so there was something there.

Lately have been thinking about a portable steam powered generator to recharge electric vehicles on the fly. That way you could burn coal to power your EV. Or wood. You could power the generator with wood and call it bio-mass.

 

[Tuur]

I've seen a gasoline powered car fire and it is a sight to behold, with melted asphalt and damaged concrete. However they are powered, automobiles burn dramatically when they finally do start on fire. I never saw one explode like they do in the movies.

Have come up on a van on fire once. It, too, didn't explode. Diesel isn't to be trifled with, either, and know of a person who died after a wreck ruptured the saddle tank.

 

[chevyontheriver]

The reduction in range looks from 50% - 53%. That's more than the 40% reduction happened to see reported elsewhere last week.

Propane reminds me of a dimly recalled incident in Canada in the 1970s. During the Arab Oil Embargo, there was an interest in alternate fuels, from propane to hydrogen. Propane powered busses were tried in various locations. FWIW, it does work, and trucks used to fill business and residential propane tanks run off the propane they haul (at least the local ones do). The problem was fill-ups, and then there was a tragedy in Canada where a propane tank on a bus ruptured in an accident, with catastrophic results. That, as I dimly recalled, pretty much ended propane powered busses in Canada. Have heard a Canadian mention the same incident, so there was something there.

Lately have been thinking about a portable steam powered generator to recharge electric vehicles on the fly. That way you could burn coal to power your EV. Or wood. You could power the generator with wood and call it bio-mass.

Why not just wood powered jet cars. Burn the wood to generate steam to directly propel the vehicle. Not many moving parts.

 

[Tuur]

Oops. An apology. I saw this topic under the recent forum posts, and didn't pay attention that it was under One Bread, One Body - Catholic. It's a fascinating topic, but I'm not a Roman Catholic.

Again, my apologies.

 

[Michie]

Oops. An apology. I saw this topic under the recent forum posts, and didn't pay attention that it was under One Bread, One Body - Catholic. It's a fascinating topic, but I'm not a Roman Catholic.

Again, my apologies.

You can still post here. The op is not about the faith.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Oops. An apology. I saw this topic under the recent forum posts, and didn't pay attention that it was under One Bread, One Body - Catholic. It's a fascinating topic, but I'm not a Roman Catholic.

Again, my apologies.

Are you being an anti-Catholic bigot here? No. So there is no foul. Come and finish your thoughts on electric vehicles.

 

[Tuur]

Thank you both. My only thoughts are they are extremely limited. The idea of an electric bus does seem attractive in cities where you'd assume they had short range, but it's interesting that hasn't panned out. Batteries just aren't as energy dense as fuels

 

[tz620q]

The reduction in range looks from 50% - 53%. That's more than the 40% reduction happened to see reported elsewhere last week.

Propane reminds me of a dimly recalled incident in Canada in the 1970s. During the Arab Oil Embargo, there was an interest in alternate fuels, from propane to hydrogen. Propane powered busses were tried in various locations. FWIW, it does work, and trucks used to fill business and residential propane tanks run off the propane they haul (at least the local ones do). The problem was fill-ups, and then there was a tragedy in Canada where a propane tank on a bus ruptured in an accident, with catastrophic results. That, as I dimly recalled, pretty much ended propane powered busses in Canada. Have heard a Canadian mention the same incident, so there was something there.

Lately have been thinking about a portable steam powered generator to recharge electric vehicles on the fly. That way you could burn coal to power your EV. Or wood. You could power the generator with wood and call it bio-mass.

I used to work building HV batteries. At -40 degrees C, the reduction in capacity can be as high as 80%. Since batteries are mainly a chemical storage media, the chemical reaction rate is affected by temperature and the available power reduced. There is slightly good news in that as the battery is warmed up, the power output goes up. The bad news is that liquid electrolyte lithium ion batteries can actually have a permanent degradation in capacity if operated at low temperatures for too long. The likely solution will be to install battery heaters to keep the batteries warm if parked outside. Here is a good, short article on this.

 

[tz620q]

The reduction in range looks from 50% - 53%. That's more than the 40% reduction happened to see reported elsewhere last week.

Propane reminds me of a dimly recalled incident in Canada in the 1970s. During the Arab Oil Embargo, there was an interest in alternate fuels, from propane to hydrogen. Propane powered busses were tried in various locations. FWIW, it does work, and trucks used to fill business and residential propane tanks run off the propane they haul (at least the local ones do). The problem was fill-ups, and then there was a tragedy in Canada where a propane tank on a bus ruptured in an accident, with catastrophic results. That, as I dimly recalled, pretty much ended propane powered busses in Canada. Have heard a Canadian mention the same incident, so there was something there.

Lately have been thinking about a portable steam powered generator to recharge electric vehicles on the fly. That way you could burn coal to power your EV. Or wood. You could power the generator with wood and call it bio-mass.

I had a friend who owned a propane business. He had converted his delivery trucks to propane. I checked into this and found out that some parking garages won't let you park a propane vehicle inside their garage. When ignited, propane explodes, which is to say it burns at an extremely fast rate. It reminds me of SpaceX's PR blurb when their latest Dragon rocket exploded. They said the rocket suffered a rapid, unexpected disassembly.

 

[timothyu]

The likely solution will be to install battery heaters to keep the batteries warm if parked outside.

Logical and and added bonus to manufacturers out to make a buck on an already booming new industry. Nice part is that tax dollars fund their operations initially.

 

[prodromos]

Logical and and added bonus to manufacturers out to make a buck on an already booming new industry. Nice part is that tax dollars fund their operations initially.

Hardly a booming new industry when they are running at a massive loss and can only keep manufacturing due to government subsidies. Nor can the infrastructure support the increased demand on the grid that EV charging will require if more than a few replace their fuel car with an EV.

 

[timothyu]

Hardly a booming new industry when they are running at a massive loss and can only keep manufacturing due to government subsidies.

Exactly. They don't care as long as someone else pays for it.