Elections and Voting

[kopilo]

Is it alright to donkey vote/ obbstain from voting in a time of election, especially when the outcome will be something as important as deciding who is the future leader of your nation?

(Personally I feel that people who do not vote have no right to complain when something ´stuffs up´, which is related to the elected body).

 

[craigerNY]

I have voted every election since I turned 18. However, in some cases I have felt that there was not a single good candidate on a certain line, like the last presidential election for example. So I leave that line blank and do not vote on it. That is a vote for "none". I voted the other lines as well as the proposals.

I think somewhat the same as you, if you don't vote, don't complain. If you must pay taxes you should feel compelled to vote. However, I have no problem casting a "none of the above" vote and I feel I do have a right to complain about the results.

 

[chaz345]

I have voted every election since I turned 18. However, in some cases I have felt that there was not a single good candidate on a certain line, like the last presidential election for example. So I leave that line blank and do not vote on it. That is a vote for "none". I voted the other lines as well as the proposals.

I think somewhat the same as you, if you don't vote, don't complain. If you must pay taxes you should feel compelled to vote. However, I have no problem casting a "none of the above" vote and I feel I do have a right to complain about the results.

I think that the single easiest way to improve the political process would be to have a "none of the above" choice that was actually counted. If "none of the above" won the two parties would be required to re-nominate and we'd have another election. There's no reason that the re-nomination/second vote process would have to take more than a couple of months.

 

[RealityCheck]

Boy, "none of the above" would've helped a lot in the last presidential election.

I agree that people who don't vote in elections should abstain from complaining about the results, or complaining in general about laws, taxes, elected officials, etc. Voting is our prime method of making our wishes known - all other methods are secondary, even if they are vital and important methods.

This doesn't apply, however, to elected officials who refuse to vote in senate or house votes. Sometimes, a vote is called on a bill or issue for political reasons more than for policy reasons - for example, when the issue is nothing more than a ploy to force officials to "take a stand" on one side of the fence or the other. Abstaining in this case is, in my view, admirable - it is refusing to take part in a vote that is nothing more than political maneuvering, and that does nothing to advance actual public policy or public good.

 

[sbvera13]

I personally refuse to vote, especially in presidential elections. My problem is with the people we have to choose from. Now I will vote on laws, measures, etc, but not for candidates. I see a colossal idiot on the right, a colossal idiot on the left, and no other options. Therefore I refuse to give my endorsement to idiocy. If our politicians would get their act together and behave according to the public trust and duty they've been given, instead of their own personal interests, I would revise my attitude.

Why not vote for someone else, you say, like the Green party (etc.)? Becaue there's no chance they'll get elected either, and there's no information about whether they're actually better candidates or not because the demos/reps have a monopoly on the media. It's a lose/lose situation all around. Since there's not enough popular support to revise the system, I have no other option but to withhold my support from it.

 

[MoonlessNight]

Most of the people that I know who don't vote refuse on the basis of disagreeing with the actual voting system. One simply objects to the pluarity vote, another objects to the notion of voting for a representative and so forth. In those cases I'm not sure if the whole "you didn't vote so you can't complain" cliche applies, because voting would implicitly endorse a political system that they don't agree with. I suppose you could say that they should vote for the people who will change it "from the inside" but the fact is that there doesn't seem to be any politicians who are advocating that level of change.

As for me, I'm usually too confused about how to reconcile my personal political beliefs with the options presented to me. If I find someone I can identify with I will usually vote for them, if I can't I won't. Just thought I'd be honest about what I do, I don't claim that what I do is particularly commendable.

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

I think it is a very important duty to vote, and though I can understand fully if people do not vote because they cannot endorse one candidate over another, I abhor the act of not voting simply because one cannot be bothered, and that includes being bothered to do careful and thoughtful personal research into the issues. I consider it an insult to the memories of every person that fought, suffered and died to secure the rights of all citizens to be represented in any democracy around the world.

Personally, I firmly believe it should be a legal requirement to vote, provided of course that there is an option in every election of 'none of the above'.

However, at the same time, I do not agree that not voting means one has no right to complain about political issues. Certainly not for those who do not vote because they object to the system or cannot find a suitable candidate.

There are so many problems with our political systems, and these need to be sorted out, but I still think it is important to vote, and meanwhile to campaign for serious changes in our political and legal systems.

Why not vote for someone else, you say, like the Green party (etc.)? Becaue there's no chance they'll get elected either...

Well, why not vote for them anyway, and perhaps support the party in other ways to help get enough support from other voters to make your vote more worthwhile? If everyone rationalised their lack of voting by saying it just won't matter, we might as well live in a dictatorship.

peace

 

[Allister]

Personally, I firmly believe it should be a legal requirement to vote

forced democracy?

What would be the punishment for abstention in a forced democracy?

 

[Skaloop]

I've seen a few people say that those who do not vote shouldn't complain. I think that's preposterous. A 17-year old isn't allowed to complain about the state of education funding? A not-yet-a-citizen shouldn't complain about immigration policies?

Oh, I know, those people don't have the option of voting, so it's a different situation. But it goes to show that voting is not a requirement for voicing discontent.

You know which group I think shouldn't complain about the government? The people who voted for that government. If you voted Republican, don't complain about the Iraq war. Don't complain about Hurricane Katrina response or Attorney General firings. Because your vote brought those things about.

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

forced democracy?

As I said, there ought to be the option of choosing no candidate/party/option in the ballot. So no-one is being forced to choose one of the parties or representatives, but we are ensuring that people don't not vote because they can't be bothered to turn off Trisha, get off their backsides and walk 5 minutes to the nearest polling station, as seems to be the case with perhaps the majority of people in this country.

What would be the punishment for abstention in a forced democracy?

Death by firing squad.

I'm just kidding, don't worry. People would still be able to abstain, they would just do it at the polling station.

peace

 

[meebs]

Is it alright to donkey vote/ obbstain from voting in a time of election, especially when the outcome will be something as important as deciding who is the future leader of your nation?

(Personally I feel that people who do not vote have no right to complain when something ´stuffs up´, which is related to the elected body).

Spoiling the paper - the person makes an effort to go spoil the paper which i beleive is quite legitimate. It's something that i would (in face am going to do) if i feel there is no representation or not happy with the form of government that exists. That person still has a voice.

Staying at home and doing nothing, although it can be a protest i beleive is lazy, at least when you spoil your paper you are making a show of it!

How can i be forced to vote a party that i do not mostly agree with?

 

[meebs]

I also agree with the idea of a box for "none of the above"

 

[Allister]

they can't be bothered to turn off Trisha, get off their backsides and walk 5 minutes to the nearest polling station, as seems to be the case with perhaps the majority of people in this country.

Maybe these people realise that no matter what vote is cast their lives will not improve, it'll probably get worse.

I'm just kidding, don't worry. People would still be able to abstain, they would just do it at the polling station.

I understand that you can go along and tick the "none of the above" box, but what if you refused to leave your house and freely decided to not vote. what would be your punishment in your forced democracy?

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

Maybe these people realise that no matter what vote is cast their lives will not improve, it'll probably get worse.

Then let them register their mistrust in the system at the polling station. Aside from legitimate inability to get to a polling station on the day, there is only one reason that would necessitate staying at home instead of going to the polling station and that is idleness.

I understand that you can go along and tick the "none of the above" box, but what if you refused to leave your house and freely decided to not vote. what would be your punishment in your forced democracy?

I don't know.

All the following countries have compulsory voting systems...

• Argentina
• Australia
• Austria
• Belgium
• Bolivia
• Brazil
• Cyprus
• Dominican Republic
• Egypt
• Greece
• Guatemala
• Honduras
• Liechenstein
• Luxembourg
• Panama
• Philippines
• Singapore
• Parts of Switzerland
• Uruguay
• Venezuela

peace

 

[RealityCheck]

All the following countries have compulsory voting systems...

• Egypt

Which is very interesting indeed - the last time they had elections, it appeared that the voters were going to oust the reigning leader and his party, so the government used police to block polling places and force people away from voting.

 

[Electric Skeptic]

I understand that you can go along and tick the "none of the above" box, but what if you refused to leave your house and freely decided to not vote. what would be your punishment in your forced democracy?

A small fine - $50, last time I looked (around $40 US).

I'm in Australia, and here it is mandatory to vote in Federal and State elections - we have a state election coming up this weekend. There is no "none of the above" box, but, of course, plenty of people choose to vote for none of the above by just filling in the form invalidly - that makes the vote null.

In fact, under the law, voting itself isn't mandatory - attending a polling station and getting your name marked off is mandatory. I've done that and then refused the voting papers when they tried to give them to me.

As a matter of principle, I don't vote now. I've been fined once, and instead of paying it sent a letter advising I refused on the grounds that the right to vote includes the right not to vote and I chose not to. I never heard anything more.

 

[Steezie]

Is it alright to donkey vote/ obbstain from voting in a time of election, especially when the outcome will be something as important as deciding who is the future leader of your nation?

(Personally I feel that people who do not vote have no right to complain when something ´stuffs up´, which is related to the elected body).

One of the things a democracy allows you to do is make the choice not to vote. If you dont vote, thats your choice. I abstain from voting in local elections around here because, generally, who actually gets elected wont really have an impact, positive or negative, on the system.

The atitude that "you cant complain if you didnt vote" seems short-sighted to me. It makes sense if you dont really think about it "You shouldnt complain about the system if you dont do anything to change it", however there are MANY more ways to effect change than just voting. Organizing rallies, dispersing candidate information, organizing support etc etc.

I am a Socialist. There currently arent any serious Socialist candidates running for office. So how am I supposed to vote when everyone running is the opposite of my political views?

 

[kopilo]

One of the things a democracy allows you to do is make the choice not to vote. If you dont vote, thats your choice. I abstain from voting in local elections around here because, generally, who actually gets elected wont really have an impact, positive or negative, on the system.

The atitude that "you cant complain if you didnt vote" seems short-sighted to me. It makes sense if you dont really think about it "You shouldnt complain about the system if you dont do anything to change it", however there are MANY more ways to effect change than just voting. Organizing rallies, dispersing candidate information, organizing support etc etc.

I am a Socialist. There currently arent any serious Socialist candidates running for office. So how am I supposed to vote when everyone running is the opposite of my political views?

It doesn't matter who gets in, you're still going to complain and whinge about who is in power, I don't see how this can be a good thing as a whole, if you complain about the system (the thing you actually have a problam with) then that stands to reason but say whinging about a specfic politican who is in power, eg GW Bush seems to me to be rather redundant to complaining about the system as a whole.

In any case there are situations we all face where all the options are not what we want, generally people pick the lesser of the two evils and some people just run away from the responsiblity of the desicion all together.

If you do not feel your views are being represented by any current politician why not become one yourself? Or a third party to the government and try to influence it's decisions externally (through the form of letters etc).

 

[Steezie]

If you do not feel your views are being represented by any current politician why not become one yourself?

I dont have a head for politics. Something tells me its bad form to call your debate opponent a moron.

 

[kopilo]

I dont have a head for politics. Something tells me its bad form to call your debate opponent a moron.

Doing that would break forum policy.