-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
-
CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
elect?
- Thread starter truelight mike
- Start date
twin1954
Baptist by the Bible
He trusts Christ alone. The evidence for being one of the elect is faith.
If you are looking for a Scripture passage giving the proof of being one of the elect I would point you to 1Thess. 1:4-10. Paul gives 6 evidences as proof of being elect:
1. The Gospel came to them in power and in the Holy ghost
2. They became followers of the Lord
3. They were examples to all
4. They sounded out the Word
5. They turned from idols to serve the living God
6. They wait for the Son from Heaven
Upvote
0
Skala
I'm a Saint. Not because of me, but because of Him
The same way a non-Calvinist knows he is one of the elect: He believes the gospel.
Did you think it was different?
So, how do non-Calvinists know they are among the elect, if not by their belief in the gospel? Is there some other way for a person to know he was "Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world" (Eph 1:4-11)?
Upvote
0
If you are missing one of these are you not one of the elect?
At what point is appropriate to accept that we are not one of the elect?
Thanks
Last edited:
Upvote
0
You're reading his list a bit too legalistically.
I would go further. I think the whole "signs of election" issue is a really bad direction to go in. The problem is that it leads people to see election as in themselves. We see signs of this in Christian Advice all the time. I don't think checking whether you're elect is something you can do as a separate thing. Confidence comes from God. Faith means trusting God. It looks to Christ, what he has done for us, and God's promises. It doesn't look to ourselves, even to see if we have faith.
God has promised that we can trust him for salvation. But what matters in this sentence is "him," not "trust." That is, when we rely on him we look to him. People get turned around and turn "you can trust him for salvation" into a mandate to examine their trust to see if it's good enough.
Upvote
0
twin1954
Baptist by the Bible
Hedrick is correct. Quit looking for evidence and look to Him. It is appropriate to accept that you are not one of the elect when you die in your sin and open your eyes in everlasting torment.
Assurance doesn't come from evidences it comes from believing the promises of Christ. The list wasn't intended to be a checklist but a simple Scriptural statement of fact. If you are a chosen child of God at some point in your life those things will exist in you though they may not be evident to you at all. The believer ought not look for evidence for he will be full of doubt all the time. The believer simply rests in the claims and promises of Christ.
Upvote
0
heymikey80
Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur
What does relying on another look like. Hm. It looks like not looking to yourself to try and find the big answers inside yourself, but finding those answers in the one you rely on, connecting through the fellowship you have with him, and understanding that there are things you dont understand or arent even good at, precisely because you dont have the ability that he has.
Upvote
0
I don't agree with the other 2 guys. I think that they are taking it too far. They are basically saying don't look at your life, don't question yourself, just trust in what Jesus did and you'll find out on judgement day if you are in God's Kingdom or if you go to hell.
So, I went to 1st John to see what it says about elect or not.
This is what I found.
Elect. Not elect
Walk in light. Walk in darkness
Confess our sins. Saying we have not sinned
Obeying Christ commands. Saying we know Him and not obeying His commands (vs 2:4)
Walk like Jesus. Not walk like Jesus
Loves his brother. Hates his brother
Does not love the things. Loves the things of this world
Of the world
Practices righteousness (2:29). Does not practice righteousness
It is easier just to paste the next vs
4Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. 5You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. 6No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. 7Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
Upvote
0
1st John seems really easy to understand. Would Calvinists say that this is inspired and that these were absolutes that could not be changed?
Upvote
0
This issue has little to do with Calvinism. The question is justification by faith, which is an issue for all Protestants.
If you take 1 John too literally, you have to conclude that no one who sins can possibly be a Christian. But he himself says that this isn't true.
I think what's going on here is the same as 1 Cor 6:9. Both passages were written to say that Christian behavior matters. Christians love each other, and Jesus is clear that we will be accountable to him for that.
But rhetoric isn't logic. Paul and John both say
Christian -> not sinning
Logically we can conclude
sinning -> not Christian
In logic that would be true. But in rhetoric not necessarily. Because both Paul and John say that God is forgiving. I believe they are both trying to convince people that God cares about their behavior and they need to pay attention to it. But both of them are addressing people who are Christian as Christians. They are not giving tests to see whether someone is a Christian.
Most commentators think John was addressing people who claimed that their enlightenment put them beyond worldly things like helping others, not trying to answer people who are afraid they're not saved because they have sinned.
Upvote
0
heymikey80
Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur
This is a little too general a question.
How do you know youre human? What does it look like?
Some attributes you just know, but others are essential, then important, then indicators, then just incidental.
Saving faith is not essentially an opinion about facts. It is a reliance on someone in particular. But even that faith has to be well placed, and must include some facts.
At core it is reliance. But it is a whole lot more, and accompanies even more than it is, things like works, and indeed assurance and perseverance.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
