Should the Christian Church unite for unity's sake or based on a shared Faith?
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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Ecumenism
- Thread starter Gideon4God
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It's always got to be either or, doesn't it? 
I vote both.
God bless... and hey, it's something to strive for, huh?
Neal
I vote both. God bless... and hey, it's something to strive for, huh?
Neal
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As an evangelical, somewhat sacramental, non-Calvinistic Baptist (yikes!), I admit to not seeing my bros and sisters who were in denominations I had been told were abominations. The more I got to know, for example, Lutherans and Catholics and Pentecostals I saw the love of God and the truth of God. What if we started with the historic Apostle's Creed and worked forward from there: we may learn much from each other and both advance the Truth and the Unity of Christ's Church. God bless, Al
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The Church (the living organism in contrast to the local orginization) is united.
"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor. 12:13).
"I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, with all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace" (Eph. 4:1-3).
What man chooses to do in his local orginization is not relevant as the Spirit has already produced unity in the Body.
In Christ,
Tracey
"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor. 12:13).
"I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, with all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace" (Eph. 4:1-3).
What man chooses to do in his local orginization is not relevant as the Spirit has already produced unity in the Body.
In Christ,
Tracey
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I guess it depends on the church. I don't think bible preaching churches should be joining with churches that exclude or just ignore Christ. You can't just leave Christ out of the picture for the sake of unity.
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Unity would be great, but authentic Truth can't be sacrificed in an attempt to unite us.
I would say definitely start from the Apostles/Nicene Creeds and Scriptures and work our way up.
I would say definitely start from the Apostles/Nicene Creeds and Scriptures and work our way up.
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I agree with pax above. But I'm afraid that if the churches start trying to truly unite, that there will be even more schisms.
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Catechism states (somewhere!) that all Christians should be united, but that this is the job of the Holy Spirit, not of Humans. Sorry I can't find the paragraph - I'm sure somebody will, if they feel strongly enough!
I read a very saddening article whilst perusing a Methodist site - it stated that the 'False Ecumenical Movement' was actually a political move by the Catholic Church to take over the world! Ironically amusing, but sad to see the paranoia which is bred within Reformed Churches regarding Catholicism.
In my (humble, amateur) opinion, the Reformed churches' attitude towards Catholicism is based upon fear and ignorance.
This is because the Catholic Church is full of tradition, history and politics - this is the side which the public see. Indeed, 'I'm a Catholic' is more of a political than a spiritul statement in many areas of the world.
I guess the political / traditional side of things would have to go. But equally, so would the Reformed Churches' habit of interpreting scripture to suit themselves...
Crikey, it would have to be a very laid-back church... I'm not sure it will happen, though the thought of all Christians uniting as one is a beautiful one.
Who are we to say which doctrines / denominations interpret 'correctly?' I see myself in no such position, which is why, although Catholic, I like to hear the points of view of other Denominations and Faiths - so I can come to my own informed conclusions. Sadly, some are so defensive regarding doctrine and history, that Unity is a virtual impossibility.
I read a very saddening article whilst perusing a Methodist site - it stated that the 'False Ecumenical Movement' was actually a political move by the Catholic Church to take over the world! Ironically amusing, but sad to see the paranoia which is bred within Reformed Churches regarding Catholicism.
In my (humble, amateur) opinion, the Reformed churches' attitude towards Catholicism is based upon fear and ignorance.
This is because the Catholic Church is full of tradition, history and politics - this is the side which the public see. Indeed, 'I'm a Catholic' is more of a political than a spiritul statement in many areas of the world.
I guess the political / traditional side of things would have to go. But equally, so would the Reformed Churches' habit of interpreting scripture to suit themselves...
Crikey, it would have to be a very laid-back church... I'm not sure it will happen, though the thought of all Christians uniting as one is a beautiful one.
Who are we to say which doctrines / denominations interpret 'correctly?' I see myself in no such position, which is why, although Catholic, I like to hear the points of view of other Denominations and Faiths - so I can come to my own informed conclusions. Sadly, some are so defensive regarding doctrine and history, that Unity is a virtual impossibility.
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Donny_B
Well-Known Member
I think there is already spiritual unity among the true believers, for those who believe Christ is head of the Church and that use the scriptures as the basis for their doctrines. We disagree on some things, but are united on basic doctrines. We shouldn't unite if these basic doctrines are compromised.
I don't think physical unity will be achieved until the day Christ descends from the clouds, when the dead in Christ will rise, and we who are alive are caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the air, so then shall we ever be with the Lord.
I don't think physical unity will be achieved until the day Christ descends from the clouds, when the dead in Christ will rise, and we who are alive are caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the air, so then shall we ever be with the Lord.
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Posted by duster1az - 9th August 2003 at 04:40 PM
The Church (the living organism in contrast to the local orginization) is united.
"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor. 12:13).
I agree with duster1az. However, if this is true, why is there so many Christian Churches today and there is so much diversity between Christian faiths? All one has to do is look back to the early Church. In 1 Corinthians 1:12-14, Paul complained about people focusing on who their religious tachers and not about Christ
...It is clear that there are serious differences among you. What I mean are all these slogans like: I am for Paul, I am for Apollos, I and for Peter, and I am for Christ. Has Christ been parceled out? Was I Paul that was crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul?....
We have fallen into the same trap as the Corinthians (1 Corinthians 3:1-4). Instead of focusing on Christ, we have focused on our leaders: I follow the Pope, I follow Luthers teaching, and I follow Calvin. We have divided Our Faith into Countless Churches. Therefore, we have parceled out Christ just as the Corinthians were doing 2000 yrs earlier.
Although Paul was unhappy with the Corinthians, he instructed them to help overcome their differences. All of Chapter 12 of 1 Corinthians instructs the faithful about the unity in the Holy Spirit and that differences between how people experience the Spirit is natural. Furthermore, all faithful Christians united with Christ and the Holy Spirit are of one body.
Therefore, even today, there can be only one Christian Church on earth since there is only one Holy Spirit. This does not mean that only one established Christian Church on earth is correct. What it means is the faithful to Christ in all Churches are United in Christ and his work on earth. This is occurring even if it is not recognize by the religious communities.
God Bless those who unite the faithful
The Church (the living organism in contrast to the local orginization) is united.
"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor. 12:13).
I agree with duster1az. However, if this is true, why is there so many Christian Churches today and there is so much diversity between Christian faiths? All one has to do is look back to the early Church. In 1 Corinthians 1:12-14, Paul complained about people focusing on who their religious tachers and not about Christ
...It is clear that there are serious differences among you. What I mean are all these slogans like: I am for Paul, I am for Apollos, I and for Peter, and I am for Christ. Has Christ been parceled out? Was I Paul that was crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul?....
We have fallen into the same trap as the Corinthians (1 Corinthians 3:1-4). Instead of focusing on Christ, we have focused on our leaders: I follow the Pope, I follow Luthers teaching, and I follow Calvin. We have divided Our Faith into Countless Churches. Therefore, we have parceled out Christ just as the Corinthians were doing 2000 yrs earlier.
Although Paul was unhappy with the Corinthians, he instructed them to help overcome their differences. All of Chapter 12 of 1 Corinthians instructs the faithful about the unity in the Holy Spirit and that differences between how people experience the Spirit is natural. Furthermore, all faithful Christians united with Christ and the Holy Spirit are of one body.
Therefore, even today, there can be only one Christian Church on earth since there is only one Holy Spirit. This does not mean that only one established Christian Church on earth is correct. What it means is the faithful to Christ in all Churches are United in Christ and his work on earth. This is occurring even if it is not recognize by the religious communities.
God Bless those who unite the faithful
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Thank you for your reply. It's been out there for a while.dustydot23 said:
I agree with you! I am still struggling with this question: why do people in different Christian Churches have a hard time joining together when we share the same faith?
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bjh
Bible Student
This is going to be an unpopular answer, but here goes...
1) Going to a "Christian church" does not make one a Christian. Knowing Christ makes somebody a Christian. On a totally generic level, how we define our terms may be part of the problem, although I couldn't say that it is the whole problem.
2) These, who know Christ, are Christians, sharing the same faith, the same belief that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures and was buried and raised on the third day according to the Scriptures (1 Cor. 15:3-4).
However, we are, each one of us, sinners. (1 John 1:7-10). We all have our failings. That's part of the reason why people have a hard time getting together.
Another part of the problem is the several centuries of "church" history, where churches have defined their beliefs based on different things they see in the Scriptures (and for some, what the church leaders have said), and who follows which leader(s).
With these in mind, let me ask you this...What is important to you? What makes you a Christian? What do you base your Christianity on?
1) Going to a "Christian church" does not make one a Christian. Knowing Christ makes somebody a Christian. On a totally generic level, how we define our terms may be part of the problem, although I couldn't say that it is the whole problem.
2) These, who know Christ, are Christians, sharing the same faith, the same belief that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures and was buried and raised on the third day according to the Scriptures (1 Cor. 15:3-4).
However, we are, each one of us, sinners. (1 John 1:7-10). We all have our failings. That's part of the reason why people have a hard time getting together.
Another part of the problem is the several centuries of "church" history, where churches have defined their beliefs based on different things they see in the Scriptures (and for some, what the church leaders have said), and who follows which leader(s).
With these in mind, let me ask you this...What is important to you? What makes you a Christian? What do you base your Christianity on?
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I am a Christian because I believe in Christ and try to follow in His teachings: Love of God and Love of Neighbor. I believe that everything in the Apostles' Creed is true (e.g., Trinity, Christ both human and divine, His death and resurrection, one holy universal Church with Christ as head and we as the body). I base my Christianity on the understanding of the New Testement. This understanding may change with spiritual growth, personal experience, or from knowledge of others.bjh said:
I have been to all the Churches listed on the internet in my village. I was welcomed at each one and I was able to worship Christ at each one. These experiences further confirm that we are one in the Holy Spirit. But as a wise man once said," given enough time, we will focus on the one blemish on our face and scratch over and over again. Unfortunately, we will forget about beauty of the rest of the body"
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Join together means recognition of different denominations of Christians as one Church. Today, the Catholic Church claims an "imperfect communion" exists between Catholic Church and other denominations. Some protestant groups say they are the only true Church and no one else can be saved. To me, these are incorrect. Examples are found in Paul. The faith of Corinthians and Romans was different yet Paul did not condemn groups because their teachings were in error. He pointed them out and corrected them.bjh said:
To me, faith is a journey. I have realized that I need all my brothers and sisters in Christ to help me understand God. Without the whole body of Christ, I would not have the understanding of the Word of God I have today and I know my journey has just begun.
All are one in Christ according to Paul so we should learn from each other (joining together) instead of destroying each other (remaining separate).
May we all listen to the Holy Spirit for guidance
(PS: I also have a post under Charistmatic section that prompted me widen my perspective outside the Roman Catholic Church)
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Hey !! what about unity to the truth, found in the Bible.
And casting aside the false doctrines and practices of denominations, owning only the truth.
Actually many in the past have sought to do this.Its a continual struggle between the truth and error.
Unless the Bible is agreed upon there can be no unity, unless compromise is apart of the unity, then its the truth of the Bible being disassembled.
God will never sanction error.
But will bless Unity in the spirit and truth, they must go together.
1 timothy 3:15 1 timothy 4:16 1 timothy 5:22 1 timothy 6:3,4,5 2 timothy 2 : 1,2 2 timothy 2:15 2 timothy 2: 20,21 2 timothy 3:14,15,16,17 2 timothy 4:7,8
And casting aside the false doctrines and practices of denominations, owning only the truth.
Actually many in the past have sought to do this.Its a continual struggle between the truth and error.
Unless the Bible is agreed upon there can be no unity, unless compromise is apart of the unity, then its the truth of the Bible being disassembled.
God will never sanction error.
But will bless Unity in the spirit and truth, they must go together.
1 timothy 3:15 1 timothy 4:16 1 timothy 5:22 1 timothy 6:3,4,5 2 timothy 2 : 1,2 2 timothy 2:15 2 timothy 2: 20,21 2 timothy 3:14,15,16,17 2 timothy 4:7,8
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