Ecumenism & Sacred Scripture

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Dolorosa

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Bishop Hay demonstrates that Sacred Scripture absolutely and infallibly forbids all religious intermingling between Catholics and those of false religions. Indeed, Bishop Hay here sounds the death knell for ecumenism, since ecumenism, as well as the Charismatic Movement, are squarely based on interfaith principles solemnly condemned by Sacred Scripture -- a condemnation that no authority in the Church can overrule.

http://www.cfnews.org/Hay-Ecu.htm
 

mathethes

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Bishop Hay demonstrates that Sacred Scripture absolutely and infallibly forbids all religious intermingling between Catholics and those of false religions. Indeed, Bishop Hay here sounds the death knell for ecumenism, since ecumenism, as well as the Charismatic Movement, are squarely based on interfaith principles solemnly condemned by Sacred Scripture -- a condemnation that no authority in the Church can overrule.

http://www.cfnews.org/Hay-Ecu.htm
Oh come on, that is exaggerated. Bishop Hays was writing at a time when the Church had not thought of ecumenism yet. We live in changed times. If we are going to be faithful with the Church NOW, we should take upon ourselves the programme of Vatican II and it includes ecumenism.
 
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Debi1967

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WEll then hey I guess we best throw out every dang ecumenical council ever done! HUH?

OH dear heaven's I do not think so .... and I think that Bishop Hay is just a little confused....
 
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QuantaCura

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How are people brought to Christ if you can't communicate with people of false religions? Those Scriptures are taken way out of context. Evangelization requires interacting with people of false religions. As Pius XII taught in his enyclical on the missions, we affirm what is good and build from their perfecting it in Christ. You need to read his encyclical on the unity of human society as well. Plus read John Paul II's encyclical on ecumenism to see that truth cannot be compromised.

The purpose of ecumenism is evangelization, we meet on common ground and go from there. Leo XIII established the Confraternity of Compassion for this purpose--in fact in this confraternity men of different Christian faiths prayed for unity.

Ecumenism as taught by the popes and the Second Vatican Council is not syncretism as the author of your article is railing against. Catholics still cannot participate in false worships. Now, that being said there are individual priests, religious, laymen, and even bishops who do practice the false kind, participating in false worship and whatnot, but that is a sin.
 
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Debi1967

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The first Scripture I see used in there wasused highly inappropriately and out of context of intent of the writer.

First the situation with the Corinthians was such that they were transgressing in the manner that they were becoming like that of which they were yoked with. Therefore, in this they needed to be told that there is a difference in spreading the Gospel message in which ecumenism, PROPER ECUMENISM, advocates I might add, and forgetting that which is God's intent for His righteous and turning away from God.

Therefore the intent of Proper Ecumenism as written in Vatican II is not to promote the unequal yoking of us with unbelievers but for us to be able have them become equally yoked with us by teaching them what that is.
 
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Dolorosa

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Pius XI discusses the true ecumenical spirit: “There is but one way in which the unity of Christians may be fostered, and that is by furthering the return to the one true Church of Christ of those who are separated from it. …The one Church of Christ is visible to all, and will remain, according to the Will of its Author, exactly the same as He instituted it. ...Would that God our Savior, ‘Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the Truth’ (I Tim., 2:4), might hear our humble prayer and vouchsafe to recall to the unity of the Church all that are gone astray. To this all-important end We implore, and We desire that others should implore, the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of Divine Grace, Help of Christians, victorious over all heresies, that she may entreat for Us the speedy coming of that longed for day, when all men shall hear the voice of her Divine Son, and shall be ‘careful to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace’.
 
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CHURCH MUST FACE CHALLENGE OF SECTS THROUGHOUT LATIN AMERICA
Pope John Paul II
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address to the Bishops' Conference of Brazil during their Ad limina visit on 5 September 1995.
Dear Brothers in the Episcopate

1. I have been keenly looking forward to this meeting with you, the Bishops of the North Eastern Regions 1 and 4 here on your <ad limina> visit, and I now greet you in St. Paul's words: "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all" (2 Cor 13:14)! In welcoming you, I include the clergy, the religious, and the lay faithful of the Ecclesiastical Provinces of Fortaleza and Teresina. I sincerely thank Cardinal Archbishop Aloisio Lorscheider for the sensitive words with which he clearly described the serene and hopeful atmosphere of life in your Dioceses.

Our meeting shows the <deep spiritual and visible bond that exists between your particular Churches and the universal Church>, a communion that derives from the fact of being "grafted" to Christ (cf. Rom 11:17ff). We must constantly turn to him, the chief Shepherd (cf. 1 Pt 5:4), to be aware of the "unsearchable riches" (Eph 3:8) which he has given us to build up his immaculate Bride (cf. Rv 19:7). He is united with her by an unbreakable covenant, and nourishes and takes care of her (cf. Eph 5:29); cf. Dogmatic Constitution <Lumen gentium>, n. 6). Our certitude and our hope rest in him and in the saving power of his Gospel (cf. Rom 1:16).

Following the <ad limina> visits of your Brothers in the Brazilian Episcopate, your presence here vividly recalls not only the immensity of your Dioceses, but also the innumerable challenges inherent in Gospel proclamation that were stressed by the <General Directives of Evangelizing Activity in Brazil> at your Episcopal Conference's meeting this year. More specifically, at previous meetings with the representatives of the Ecclesiastical Provinces of Parana and Sao Paulo, I had the opportunity to reflect on several aspects of their pastoral concern for the Church, and I encouraged them to be vigilant sentinels of the truth, Pastors who proclaim the truth of Christ and the Church, promoters of the spiritual renewal necessary in all the areas of your particular Churches (cf. <Addresses>, 17 February 1995; 21 March 1995). Today our thoughts are directed to some other aspects of your ministry.

Ecumenical dialogue must be sincere search for truth

2. "That they may all be one; ... even as we are one" (Jn 17:21, 22). With these words of John, Apostle and Evangelist, I would like to be united with you, first of all to increase the faith of our brothers and sisters in the diocesan communities whose Pastors you are, so that these solemn words may become ever more real: "That they may all be one, even as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they may also be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me" (Jn 17:21).

On various occasions Providence has enabled me to insist on one basic conclusion of the Second Vatican Council, according to which it is the Church's decision to assume the ecumenical task of promoting Christian unity and proposing it in a convinced and vigorous manner (cf. Decree on Ecumenism <Unitatis redintegratio>, n. 1). Indeed, this has been the indelible mark of my Pontificate which, as you will remember, I wished to express during my last visit to Brazil (cf. <Address>, 18 October 1991).

I have already had the opportunity to affirm, recently too, that "Here it is not a question of altering the deposit of faith, changing the meaning of dogmas, eliminating essential words from them, accommodating truth to the preferences of a particular age, or suppressing certain articles of the <Creed> under the false pretext that they are no longer understood today. The unity willed by God can be attained only by the adherence of all to the content of revealed faith in its entirety. (Encyclical Letter <Ut unum sint>, n. 18). In addressing the representatives of the world of culture in Sao Salvador da Bahia, I recalled that: "the inculturation of the Gospel is not a more or less appropriate adaptation of the values of the contingent culture, but an authentic incarnation within a specific culture in order to purify it and to redeem it" (<Address>, n. 4, 20 October 1991, <L'Osservatore Romano> English edition, 4 November 1991, p. 7).

The same is true in the realm of ecumenism. Indeed, in the field of inculturation as in that of ecumenism, it can easily be seen how the search for understanding, acceptance or openness to other groups or religious confessions, has caused serious damage to the pure expression of the mystery of the Catholic faith and liturgical prayer, or undue concessions with regard to the objective needs of Catholic morality. Ecumenism is not a false irenicism (cf. <Unitatis redintegratio>, nn. 4, 11). It is not a quest for unity at all costs. Ecumenical dialogue must be nourished by prayer, defined by the Second Vatican Council as (the soul of any ecumenical movement). This dialogue, which is meaningful only if it is a sincere search for the truth, will be able to ask us to ignore the secondary elements that could become a psychological obstacle to our brothers and sisters of different religious denominations. It would, in any case, never be true, or authentic if it implied even the slightest distortion of a truth of the faith, or the abandonment of the legitimate expression of traditional, popular, Christian piety and the weakening of requirements matured over centuries of ecclesiastical discipline, or of the venerable liturgical traditions of the East, of the Church of Rome and the other Western Churches. Moreover, "Today we know that unity can be achieved through the love of God only if the Churches want it together, in full respect for the traditions of each and for necessary autonomy" (Apostolic Letter <Orientale lumen>, n. 20).

On the other hand, for the fruitful development of true ecumenism, an adequate ecumenical formation and pastoral structures are necessary, such as the ecumenical commissions which collaborate in promoting full unity. The <Directory for the Application of Principles and Norms of Ecumenism> published in 1993, gives precise information applicable to the different situations.
 
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Dolorosa

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The first Scripture I see used in there wasused highly inappropriately and out of context of intent of the writer.

First the situation with the Corinthians was such that they were transgressing in the manner that they were becoming like that of which they were yoked with. Therefore, in this they needed to be told that there is a difference in spreading the Gospel message in which ecumenism, PROPER ECUMENISM, advocates I might add, and forgetting that which is God's intent for His righteous and turning away from God.

Therefore the intent of Proper Ecumenism as written in Vatican II is not to promote the unequal yoking of us with unbelievers but for us to be able have them become equally yoked with us by teaching them what that is.
Is it true ecumenism for:

Archbishop Wilton Gregory, of the Archdiocese of Atlanta,will attend the annual Lutheran/Catholic service this year in Des Moines.

The Oct. 28
event will begin with a 6:30 p.m. social and 7:30 p.m. service at St. James Lutheran Church, 5665 Merle Hay Road, Johnston.

"We're really excited about Bishop Gregory's visit," said the Rev. Gregory Davis, St. James pastor. "St. James seats about 150, so we'll feel crowded."

http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060901/LIFE05/60901010

English Marytrs died for the faith then attend a protestant service during the Reformation before VII.
 
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Metanoia02

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Is it true ecumenism for:

Archbishop Wilton Gregory, of the Archdiocese of Atlanta,will attend the annual Lutheran/Catholic service this year in Des Moines.

The Oct. 28
event will begin with a 6:30 p.m. social and 7:30 p.m. service at St. James Lutheran Church, 5665 Merle Hay Road, Johnston.

"We're really excited about Bishop Gregory's visit," said the Rev. Gregory Davis, St. James pastor. "St. James seats about 150, so we'll feel crowded."

http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060901/LIFE05/60901010

English Marytrs died for the faith then attend a protestant service during the Reformation before VII.

I really don't understand your comparisons between Wilton Gregory and English martyrs. The English martyrs you were speaking of lived in a time when a priest who was caught saying Mass could be executed.

That is certainly not the case today.
 
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QuantaCura

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Pius XI discusses the true ecumenical spirit: “There is but one way in which the unity of Christians may be fostered, and that is by furthering the return to the one true Church of Christ of those who are separated from it. …The one Church of Christ is visible to all, and will remain, according to the Will of its Author, exactly the same as He instituted it. ...Would that God our Savior, ‘Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the Truth’ (I Tim., 2:4), might hear our humble prayer and vouchsafe to recall to the unity of the Church all that are gone astray. To this all-important end We implore, and We desire that others should implore, the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of Divine Grace, Help of Christians, victorious over all heresies, that she may entreat for Us the speedy coming of that longed for day, when all men shall hear the voice of her Divine Son, and shall be ‘careful to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace’.


Nobody is disagreeing with this at all. Look, I see you're an SSPX supporter--they tend to have a very narrow, liminted and skewed view of history and Tradition, often taking things out of context. I mean, take the absurd quote by archbishop Lefebvre in your signature line. The whole of Tradition??? Seriously, he had issues due to his misunderstanding of two fine points in the Second Vatican Council (collegiality and Religious Liberty; both of which he misunderstand's greatly). Go through Ludwig Von Ott's treatise on Catholic dogma--a good point by point description of Tradition--and tell us which one we are taught to abandon in obedience. You won't find one. The Archbishop went off the deep end in paranoia.

I think the greater deception of Satan is to use the sacred Tridentine Mass to lure people outside the ark of salvation and into schismatical fraternities. Seriously, I used to buy into the SSPX's stuff until I actually studied the WHOLE of Catholic Tradition in its proper context. They really need to put their pride aside and do a little reading themselves. As much as I sympathize with their love of the Tridentine Mass, I cannot sympathize with the dissensions, misconceptions, and scandal they spread.
 
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QuantaCura

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This is the absurdity I am talking about. Are you serious? Do a little homework. The world pre-Vatican II was a mess. The things you are blaming on ecumenism are caused from godless secularism, rationalism, and materialism--which were born in the 1700s and took mass communications in the 20th century to reach the common masses. Other things on your list are false. Our pope has been recently condemning godless forms of government, for example. Pius IX invited the Orthodox to Vatican I. Leo XIII established the interdenominaitonal COnfraternity of Compassion. Stop reading SSPX propaganda and study the faith yoursefl. Sheesh.
 
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