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As a sign of apostasy , false doctrine Paul wrote to Timothy ....Symes said:You cannot show me one place in the New testament to say that we are not under the food laws. God cannot change. Are you really serious in saying that from say the birth of Christ that pigs are now clean. How can God change things from unclean to clean? He never did and never will.
http://www.tutorgig.com/encyclopedi...=Greek_religionWorship
The most widespread public act of worship in ancient Greece was sacrifice , especially the blood sacrifice of animals. The temple s of the Greek religion generally were not public gathering places where people gathered socially for collective indoor prayer; most temples were little more than boxes that held a cult idol of the deity. Rather, the temples were part slaughterhouse and part barbecue;ox en, sheep , horses, swine , dogs, various birds, and almost every kind of beast, be it fur, fish, or fowl, were offered as sacrificial victims to one deity or another, again depending chiefly on local custom. When we are told in studies of mythology that "horses are sacred to Poseidon " or roosters to Hermes , what this meant first and foremost was that these animals were customarily offered as sacrifices to those gods. Most sacrificial victims were food animals; for these, the usual practice was to offer the god the blood, bones, and hide of the victim, while the worshippers kept and ate the rest.
The Roman formula expressed the attitude of worshippers to their gods in the formula do ut des; I give sacrifices, so that the god will reward me in return. Public worship was aimed at pleasing the gods so that the gods would send rain, good harvest, military victories, and other public blessings. Private sacrifice was offered for personal goals. Prayer was highly formulaic and ritualized. Most places did not have professional full-time clergy ; priests were local officials whose priesthoods were not full time jobs. Major religious sites such as the oracle s of pilgrimage brought in enough spiritual tourism to need a full time clerical staff.
IF it was SO important to abstain from unclean animals, then WHY did Paul only mention to not eat ONLY because it was offered to idols? (And not because it was wrong, but because you could injure the conscience of the one who brought it to your attention because they thought is was wrong . . Paul is advocating acting in a loving way that puts the other's needs before our liberty in Christ . . )
In fact, IF it was SO important to abstain from unclean animals, then WHY did Paul NOT tell them to make sure that they were ONLY eating CLEAN meats?
He didn't tell them to be careful to do that . . !!!
He told them to eat ANYTHING fully knowing that this ANYTHING most likely would be UNCLEAN animals according to Jewish dietary laws!!
I see absolutely NO evidence that Christians were EVER expected to eat only those meats declared clean by Jewish dietary laws . .
Quite the contrary, I see we are told to eat ANYTHING put before us because the earth is the Lord's and the FULLNESS thereof . .
1Co 10:30
For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?
We are under the Law of Liberty
Symes said:I do not have an answer to everything that is in the Bible. I do not believe for one moment that Paul would have told the Jews to eat unclean food. The reason I say that is that the Jews would have made a very big objection to such a command.
The Jews today are not following such advice. They do not eat unclean food. From what Paul says the Jews did not go ahead and eat unclean food. This command if as you say is to eat unclean food goes against everything that God has said before.
The cross did not change foods from unclean to clean. It changed the way we come to Christ. There were no more sacrifices offered.
James 2:8-12 (NIV)
"If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself,"[1] you are doing right. 9But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. 10For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11For he who said, "Do not commit adultery,"[2] also said, "Do not murder."[3] If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.
12Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom"
What do you think the "royal law" is? James is quoting from the ten commandments. That is the "royal law" He does not quote every one of them but it is obvious that is where he is getting his ideas from.
(KJV)
"If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty"
So we are going to be judged by the ten commandments.
I do not have an answer to everything that is in the Bible.
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Again:
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself
Symes said:deu
Does it say anywhere in the Bible that the Jews or the early Christians started to eat unclean foods?
Symes said:Where did Paul get these laws from?
Symes said:deu
Does it say anywhere in the Bible that the Jews or the early Christians started to eat unclean foods?
Hi SymesSymes said:thereselittleflower
Where did Paul get these laws from?
As you have said it is an old law. This law was not new to Christ at all. So as it was not new, how is it that according to you and others we should obey this one but not the ten commandments?Lev 19:18
Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour asthyself: I am the LORD.
SymesSymes said:As you have said it is an old law. This law was not new to Christ at all. So as it was not new, how is it that according to you and others we should obey this one but not the ten commandments?
And Symes . . I did answer you in the post you responded to . . do you actually read what I say or only wha you think it says?Symes said:As you have said it is an old law. This law was not new to Christ at all. So as it was not new, how is it that according to you and others we should obey this one but not the ten commandments?
Does it say they didn't? Really Symes that logic is completely silly. There are all sorts of verses in the NT that prove we are not under the food laws. we have posted them, even the words directly from Christ's mouth when he said that it is not what goes into a man's mouth that defiles him. You just stubbornly ignore all the evidence
Symes . . remember the many posts where we tried to help you understand that we were not talking about changing the Sabbath? but that Sunday was not a new sabbath, but a new day of worship and that the sabbath remained on saturday . . and we didn't observe it?Symes said:No, it is not silly logic. We want some evidence that the Jews went out and started eating unclean food. They do not today and did not then. They did not understand that Paul was telling them to eat unclean food.
Since his instructions are part of scripture . . and scripture is inspired word of God .. I would say that the likelyhood of Paul being in GRAVE ERROR in this wouild be slim to none . . well . . since it is the inspried word of God, I would really have to say NONE!!
What do you say?
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