Eat bacon, worship on Sunday, and never think by keeping the law you'll get to heaven (2)

[VictorC]

Rev 14:12 the saints are those who "Keep the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

Rom 8:5-8 only the lost are at war with the law of God. only the lost cannot keep it.

1Cor 7:19 to the saints Paul says "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God".

The New Covenant of Jer 31:31-33 writes "The Law of God on the heart and on the mind" Hebrews 8.

In your opening statement to Elder111 you appear to be accusing him of being a saint.

in Christ,

Bob

And... What? This is in response to half a sentence, and is as incoherent as your selection. You're as guilty as Elder111 in transgressing the Sabbath:

28th June 2014, 08:32 AM

It is obvious that there isn't anything about the Sabbath written into your heart and mind. The Adventist rendition of God's "My law" written into your being is merely shuffling the covenant He rendered "obsolete" into another location, in deference to the passage you fetched a sound bite from as well as Romans 2:15 showing it wasn't a new covenant promise to begin with.

Adventists don't keep the commandments of God. They don't even know what His commandments are,and aren't among those described in Revelation 14:12. What you did manage to quote from me should have made you realize the time appointed by God (Galatians 4:4-5) came to fruition in Jesus Christ's redemption, and you're still urging others to reject His redemption as His own. You don't display any faith in Jesus when you reject His redemption as His own.

It is your own claim that "only the lost" wage a personal war against the Law of God. Even after at least four members have laid the Law's testimony before you regarding the origin of the Sabbath, you're still quoting proofs the Sabbath didn't originate in the Genesis account concurrent with contrary claims that it did.

Matthew 12
35 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things. 36 But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. 37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.​

 

[VictorC]

That is the only thing you can say? You can't address the passage itself?

How does your medicine feel? Do you like it when others handle your posts the same way you handle theirs?

 

[from scratch]

Originally Posted by Elder 111

Originally Posted by Elder 111

And we all will be Judged by His Holy Law.
​

If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
You want to try that again?
​

That is the only thing you can say? You can't address the passage itself?

Try what again? You insist that merely by not murdering or not committing adultery one obeys the law. Paul showed in Romans the gentiles don't have the law and yet do the things of the law. While the Judaizers wanted them to convert to keeping the law. Please explain why. Paul also said the same blaspheme God in their law keeping and turn others away from God.

 

[Elder 111]

Try what again? You insist that merely by not murdering or not committing adultery one obeys the law. Paul showed in Romans the gentiles don't have the law and yet do the things of the law. While the Judaizers wanted them to convert to keeping the law. Please explain why. Paul also said the same blaspheme God in their law keeping and turn others away from God.

I insist or James?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by from scratch

Try what again? You insist that merely by not murdering or not committing adultery one obeys the law. Paul showed in Romans the gentiles don't have the law and yet do the things of the law. While the Judaizers wanted them to convert to keeping the law. Please explain why.
Paul also said the same blaspheme God in their law keeping and turn others away from God.
​

I insist or James?

Well ya gotta remember, James, John and Peter had to live in and around Jerusalem, where the corupt murderous Jewish rulers were, and they also did not take kindly to Paul

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary
JESUS AND PAUL VS THE OC JUDAIZING JEWISH RULERS

Acts 23:
14 Who any toward coming to the Chief-priests and to the Elders to say "to-anathema we anathematize ourselves of no yet nothing to taste till of which we may be killing Paul."

Paul the false apostle of Revelation 2:2

The Lord's brother James hated Paul and warned about Paul.

Letters found with the Dead Sea Scrolls written by James called Paul "a spouter of lies" see the books by Dr. Robert H. Eisenman. The epistle of James was written in part for the trial of Paul at the church of Ephesus (Revelation 2:2) where Paul is that false apostle the Lord spoke about and was tried, found a heretic and expelled.
Paul mentions this fact in:

2Timothy 1:15 This you know, that all those in Asia have turned away from me,"

Act 21:
18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the
19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.
20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, "Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses,
saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs................


.

 

[from scratch]

I insist or James?

You. I'm familiar with James.

 

[FredVB]

Keeping the law does not mean the same thing at all as obedience to Yahweh God's commandments. The law of the old testament of the Bible, which is from God, requires a priesthood, for which Aaron and his male descendents were appointed, sacrifice, because sin, which has any deserving death, had to be dealt with for any to approach God, for which it was instituted exactly how it should be had with using precious clean and unblemished animals, and ways to be made clean so as not remain with stain of sin, for which with faith in God and God's ways for us being real the ceremonial cleansings, which in times since the sacrifices ceased can no longer be duplicated, were effective. Jesus Christ was the real requirement, and fulfilled all that, as well as bearing justice for all who are really God's people, and providing for their righteousness which is needed. This does not eliminate the call to avoid what is sin, but the ultimate consequence for that with real believers is dealt with for them. Believers are not all required for carrying out penalties from civil law. As we were shown mercy we leave it to God and we ourselves are to show mercy. So, this is how James said, speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. Because we have fallen on any point we should be merciful to others. As a footnote to this passage in my Bible says, God does not allow selective obedience. Sin is violation of the perfect righteousness of God, who is the Lawgiver. The violation of even one commandment separates an individual from God and God's purposes.

I don't tell others to observe Sabbath rest. But it is in the Bible, I see it is good for doing. I don't know that any commandment is not good to do, and it is not obedience that separates any from God. In Christ, when we fail in ways, we are still kept in relationship with God without judgment to us, while we are to be restored from sin in our lives. Any are to grow to learn how to be more obedient to God in their lives.

Promoting having bacon should not even have been brought up. There are enough reasons not to have any of it.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7863328/#post66966456
http://www.christianforums.com/t7863328/#post67011911

 

[MoreCoffee]

Some folk appear to equivocate on what commandments means. Sometimes it means the ten commandments. Sometimes it means "the moral law". Sometimes it means "the law including dietary laws". For Domion theology is appears to mean all of the old testament law except the cultic regulations.

But this thread is not about the various equivocal meanings attached to "the commandments". It is about the matters raised in the original post.

Eat bacon, worship on Sunday, and never think by keeping the law you'll get to heaven
There are some recent threads against pork, Sunday, and several promoting keeping the ten commandments so this thread is intended for those who object to all that legalistic stuff ....

Pork is tasty and safe to eat.

Sunday is the Lord's day, the day of Christ's resurrection, and the birth day for the Church.

The ten commandments are like a boundary fence, one cannot live one's life on the fence but inside its bounds is a safe place in which one can trust, be trusted, and enjoy fellowship with God through Jesus Christ in the church.

One ought not to be an antinomian but one must never ever think that keeping the ten commandments will earn you heaven.

Never ever think that Saturday Sabbath keeping will retain God's favour towards you.

Just think of life this way,

Matthew 11:28-30 28 Come to me, all you who labour and are burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am meek and humble of heart; and you will find rest for your selves. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden light.​

 

[BobRyan]

Keeping the law does not mean the same thing at all as obedience to Yahweh God's commandments. The law of the old testament of the Bible, which is from God, requires a priesthood, for which Aaron and his male descendents were appointed, sacrifice, http://www.christianforums.com/t7863328/#post67011911

So then you do not include Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself" and Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart" and Ex 20 "Do not take the name of the Lord in vain" in those "OT laws"???

Christ affirmed them in Matt 22 BEFORE the cross. (At least in the case of Deut and Leviticus) -- is it your view that they got deleted??

 

[bugkiller]

Sure miss some of my old friends.

bugkiller

 

[MoreCoffee]

Sure miss some of my old friends.

bugkiller

Are they still living?

 

[FredVB]

Some folk appear to equivocate on what commandments means. Sometimes it means the ten commandments. Sometimes it means "the moral law". Sometimes it means "the law including dietary laws". For Domion theology is appears to mean all of the old testament law except the cultic regulations.
But this thread is not about the various equivocal meanings attached to "the commandments". It is about the matters raised in the original post.

So then you do not include Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself" and Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart" and Ex 20 "Do not take the name of the Lord in vain" in those "OT laws"???
Christ affirmed them in Matt 22 BEFORE the cross. (At least in the case of Deut and Leviticus) -- is it your view that they got deleted??

Commandments from Yahweh God are commandments, although there are Jews that will say the term in their Bible just means sayings. Some, okay most, commandments in the Bible are in the law. Some aren't. To go and make disciples, teaching them to do as Christ said, and having them baptized, is such a commandment, not in the law, but surely to be observed. The ten commandments are included as commandments, but of course there are some more, we are required to love Yahweh and love our neighbor, and this includes any that we might interact with. It really should show. I was already showing what is to be excluded from old covenant law in the covenant through Christ with his fulfillment. And there are indeed observances that are just for God's people that are of Israel.

Why is any of God's word said to be cultic regulation? Do others say that?

The dietary law was given in the covenant with the people of Israel because there was a sacrificial system for them, which I explained was not to continue as it was, with Christ being the fulfillment.

But requirement to not have blood was not from the law, it is totally universal, though the requirement, and it is from God, is neglected. Meat was even permitted just after when there was sacrifice already. Christ came for us, and no animal ever has to die for us again. They didn't need to in the perfect creation, and they won't be dying in the restoration of creation that is shown in prophecy. Even with the original post, I can say promoting having meat shouldn't have been brought up, there are enough reasons not to have meat, you were wrong to say any of it is completely safe, and promoting it was inappropriate. There is commandment too for not being offensive about it with any.

Bob, I clearly do include those commandments, they are to be applied, why would you conclude that I am not including those for our lives? Why ask if I think they were deleted?

 

[MoreCoffee]

The commandments are not burdensome, for whoever is begotten by God conquers the world. And the victory that conquers the world is our faith. And his commandment is this: we should believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and love one another just as he commanded us.

 

[bugkiller]

Are they still living?

Who knows? They just aren't posting anymore. It might be pretty hard to post if you died.

bugkiller

 

[MoreCoffee]

Who knows? They just aren't posting anymore. It might be pretty hard to post if you died.

bugkiller

Quite true. Being dead does appear to be incompatible with writing posts on CF.

I have one kilogram of bacon in the freezer, I think it is time for me to get it out of there and defrost it for making tasty bacon based foods!

I am still confident that eating bacon, worshipping God on Sunday, and not trying to gain favour with God by keeping the Law of Moses (613 commandments are in the Torah my Jewish sources tell me) will not in any way hinder the faithful from attaining heaven because heaven is a gift of God's grace and grace would not be grace any more if it were earned by works.

 

[FredVB]

The commandments are not burdensome, for whoever is begotten by God conquers the world. And the victory that conquers the world is our faith. And his commandment is this: we should believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and love one another just as he commanded us.

I agree totally with this. And why wouldn't I? I would go with what is written in the Bible, as that is, though as far as traditions go they don't hold that authority with me.

As far as criticism that ten commandments, which are in the old testament of the Bible, are not authoritative for us, I remember I was told of this, elsewhere:

General Theology is wrong.

There in lies the issue. G-d does not change. Modern "christianity" is do your own thing as you free and your sins are forgiven. Scripture says that this is EVIL.

The problem is far, far, far too little of the OT is studied by believers and once you begin to study you see it is for ALL who are called by HIS name.

 

[bugkiller]

Quite true. Being dead does appear to be incompatible with writing posts on CF.

I have one kilogram of bacon in the freezer, I think it is time for me to get it out of there and defrost it for making tasty bacon based foods!

I am still confident that eating bacon, worshipping God on Sunday, and not trying to gain favour with God by keeping the Law of Moses (613 commandments are in the Torah my Jewish sources tell me) will not in any way hinder the faithful from attaining heaven because heaven is a gift of God's grace and grace would not be grace any more if it were earned by works.

Have some vac packed bacon ends that need to get divided up and put in the freezer.

bugkiller

 

[bbbbbbb]

Quite true. Being dead does appear to be incompatible with writing posts on CF.

I have one kilogram of bacon in the freezer, I think it is time for me to get it out of there and defrost it for making tasty bacon based foods!

I am still confident that eating bacon, worshipping God on Sunday, and not trying to gain favour with God by keeping the Law of Moses (613 commandments are in the Torah my Jewish sources tell me) will not in any way hinder the faithful from attaining heaven because heaven is a gift of God's grace and grace would not be grace any more if it were earned by works.

Very nicely put. I am in China now where they don't have bacon, so I am looking forward to eating it when I return. In the meantime I am enjoying various pork delicacies here such as sliced pig's ears - really quite delicious.

 

[FredVB]

The dietary law was given in the covenant with the people of Israel because there was a sacrificial system for them, which I explained was not to continue as it was, with Christ being the fulfillment.

But requirement to not have blood was not from the law, it is totally universal, though the requirement, and it is from God, is neglected. Meat was even permitted just after when there was sacrifice already. Christ came for us, and no animal ever has to die for us again. They didn't need to in the perfect creation, and they won't be dying in the restoration of creation that is shown in prophecy. Even with the original post, I can say promoting having meat shouldn't have been brought up, there are enough reasons not to have meat, you were wrong to say any of it is completely safe, and promoting it was inappropriate. There is commandment too for not being offensive about it with any.

I have one kilogram of bacon in the freezer, I think it is time for me to get it out of there and defrost it for making tasty bacon based foods!

I am still confident that eating bacon, worshipping God on Sunday, and not trying to gain favour with God by keeping the Law of Moses (613 commandments are in the Torah my Jewish sources tell me) will not in any way hinder the faithful from attaining heaven because heaven is a gift of God's grace and grace would not be grace any more if it were earned by works.

There isn't any of the issues I brought up considered and addressed, just deliberate persistence contrary, with blatantly showing it pursued. This is in fact going contrary to scripture, as there is to be no offense, as I have said.

 

[MoreCoffee]

You can't be offended when I eat bacon, you don't know anything about my meal times or what's on the menu!