Easiest Defense of Sola Scriptura

[Albion]

Wrong Again, The prerrogatives Jesus Gave to The Apostles were given to Them to MINISTER THEM. And They in their prerrogative were able also to chose new apostles to preach the gospel as they did with Mathias and Paul and Banabas, The same way the letters to Timothy and Phillemon and Titus were leters directed to Bishops on how they had to manage Church issues, Including Priests Ordination.

You can talk around the point, but you said what you said and it is a contradiction. I'm sure it will make no difference to you that you contradicted yourself, but I am entitled to mention it to you.

 

[Alonso_Castillo]

You can talk around the point, but you said what you said and it is a contradiction. I'm sure it will make no difference to you that you contradicted yourself, but I am entitled to mention it to you.

No contradiction at all. ¿When do you think you finally will obey Christ and confess, partake of the Eucharist and Receive Confirmation in the only True Church?

 

[Albion]

No contradiction at all. ¿When do you think you finally will obey Christ and confess, partake of the Eucharist and Receive Confirmation in the only True Church?

You have more than just the question mark that's upside down with that post.

 

[Xalith]

No contradiction at all. ¿When do you think you finally will obey Christ and confess, partake of the Eucharist and Receive Confirmation in the only True Church?

/doublefacepalm

If I had three hands, I'd do a triple facepalm.

 

[Alonso_Castillo]

/doublefacepalm

If I had three hands, I'd do a triple facepalm.

Right, Face palm source of Truth...

 

[Alonso_Castillo]

You have more than just the question mark that's upside down with that post.

¿?

It happens I have an Spanish Keyboard. and we do have the question mark which opens a question "¿" and the one which closes a question "?"

 

[Albion]

No contradiction at all. ¿When do you think you finally will obey Christ and confess, partake of the Eucharist and Receive Confirmation in the only True Church?

If I had three hands, I'd do a triple facepalm.

Actually, I've done ALL those things, but I didn't want to embarrass our friend any further by mentioning it--and I worried about you attempting a quadruple facepalm!

 

[Alonso_Castillo]

Actually, I've done ALL those things, but I didn't want to embarrass our friend any further by mentioning it--and I worried about you attempting a quadruple facepalm!

http://demotywatory.pl//uploads/1247685201_by_mateo3300_600.jpg

I think making fun gives weight to void arguments, doesn't it?

 

[PeaceByJesus]

Christ only Save those who obey him, and sin can be Forgiven by CONFESION, to CONFESS the sins to the Priests is OBEDIENCE TO CHRIST:

Wrong. Show me even one instance in the life of the church (Acts oneward, which are interpretive of the gospels) in which,

1. NT pastors are called "priests" (“hiereus” or “archiereus," despite occurring over 280 times total).

2. NT pastors engage in a unique sacerdotal function, that of offering the elements the Lord's supper as a sacrifice for sins, or even administering the Lord's supper.

3. The people are instructed to confess their sins distinctively to NT priests as a normal practice (James 5 does not).

4. NT priests are distinctively charged with regularly hearing confessions and granting forgiveness as a part of their function, like as they are with preaching the word.

5. NT priests are shown regularly hearing confessions of sins by the converted, apart from judicially hearing conflicts btwn believers and declaring souls guilty or innocent, along with the church.

" Be Catholic is to Reject the saving Grace by an act of disbelief and disobedience."

So your unScriptural elitism makes you more Catholic than the pope and V2?

 

[PeaceByJesus]

OK, as long as this isn't used to promote supremacism.-

Which of course, it is, coming from a RC.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

When James died A new Bishop was put in his place just before Jerusalem was Destroyed.

Not by the Holy Spirit who is faithful to record the successor to Jude, and the death of James, among lesser aspects of the NT church, and would certainly have characteristically done so for James if it took place.

Meanwhile, though lists of successors may be presented by the likes of Eusebius, fraud was too common among such lists.

 

[Albion]

...and that is why the Protestant claim that a cacophony of sects are "one Church" is so ludicrous. If you were one Church, you'd have one voice, one doctrine.

Excuse me, but mine IS only one church, just like yours is.

 

[redleghunter]

I cut your replacement theology statement as it is not pertinent to the discussion.
https://carm.org/what-baptism-holy-spirit
What is baptism in the Holy Spirit?

Baptism of the Holy Spirit1 is a term used to describe a movement of the Spirit upon and/or within a believer usually sometime after the person is saved. There is controversy surrounding this phenomenon as to whether it is legitimate or not. Some people believe that once a person is saved the Holy Spirit is in the person and there is no subsequent "baptism in the Holy Spirit." In other words, they maintain that this Baptism of the Spirit occurs at salvation. Others believe that it is possible for the Christian to experience an additional movement of the Holy Spirit sometime after salvation. Generally speaking, it is the charismatic movement that supports the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

We need to know first that all Christians receive the Spirit upon their conversion and in this sense all Christians have been baptized in the Holy Spirit. This means that they are saved and that they have all they need at that time to be able to live godly and holy lives. 1 Cor. 12:13 says, "For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit."

However, there are many Christians who claim to have had this "secondary" experience of the Spirit.2 They say that it has brought great blessing and comfort to them. Furthermore, they say that the results of the experience is a renewed dedication and appreciation for God, a stronger desire to read the Bible, a stronger desire to fellowship with Christians, and a deeper sense of worship of God. Millions of Christians who claim to have had this experience forces us to deal with the issue. Is it real or not? Let's look at the Scripture to find out.

The term "baptize with the Holy Spirit" occurs several times in scripture:

Matt. 3:11, "As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."Mark 1:8, "I baptized you with water; but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."�Luke 3:16, "John answered and said to them all, 'As for me, I baptize you with water; but One is coming who is mightier than I, and I am not fit to untie the thong of His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."John 1:33, "And I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, "He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the one who baptizes in the Holy Spirit."Acts 1:5, "for John baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."Acts 11:16, "And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, 'John baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit."

We can clearly see that the phrase is used in the Bible. But, we do not find a clear teaching in the Bible of what the phrase means. Nevertheless, we can conclude that when a person is baptized in the Holy Spirit he has power bestowed upon him. This power is for the purpose of the preaching of the gospel (Acts 4:31), living a purer life, and having a deeper devotion to God. Also, it is frequently accompanied by speaking in tongues. Acts 2:4, "And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance." At this point, I would recommend the reader to examine Acts 1-2 to see the movement of the Holy Spirit upon the early church at Pentecost.

The issue now seems to be whether or not Baptism of/in/with the Holy Spirit is a subsequent event occurring after salvation. It would seem that this is the case. In John 20:22, Jesus commanded that the disciples receive the Holy Spirit, "And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit." This means that they were saved since the Holy Spirit is not received by the unregenerate. Then, later in Acts 1:4-5 we read, "And gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, "Which,"� He said, "you heard of from Me; 5 for John baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."�

Conclusion

The danger of this phenomena is the potential division of the body of Christ into two categories: those who are "regular" Christians and those who have been baptized in the Holy Spirit. This, of course, would be an incorrect way of looking at Christians, and this is why. If you were to step outside into a soft mist, it would take a long time to get completely wet. On the other hand, if you were to step into a torrential rain, you'd be drenched quickly.

Those who have not experienced the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (meaning a sudden and powerful experience) are not second-class citizens by any means. They are the ones in the gentle mist who experience the Lord over a long period of time and get just as blessed as those who suddenly step into the torrent of the Spirit's presence. In fact, the Baptism of the Spirit can be a pitfall since so many people who have experienced it long for it again, almost to the point of putting the validity of their faith in the experience instead of the clear teaching of the word of God.

We must all be careful not to fall in our strengths as well as our weaknesses.

John Piper has a sermon addressing the topic. Very good:

http://www.desiringgod.org/messages/tongues-of-fire-and-the-fullness-of-god

 

[redleghunter]

I cut your replacement theology statement as it is not pertinent to the discussion.
https://carm.org/what-baptism-holy-spirit
What is baptism in the Holy Spirit?

Baptism of the Holy Spirit1 is a term used to describe a movement of the Spirit upon and/or within a believer usually sometime after the person is saved. There is controversy surrounding this phenomenon as to whether it is legitimate or not. Some people believe that once a person is saved the Holy Spirit is in the person and there is no subsequent "baptism in the Holy Spirit." In other words, they maintain that this Baptism of the Spirit occurs at salvation. Others believe that it is possible for the Christian to experience an additional movement of the Holy Spirit sometime after salvation. Generally speaking, it is the charismatic movement that supports the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

We need to know first that all Christians receive the Spirit upon their conversion and in this sense all Christians have been baptized in the Holy Spirit. This means that they are saved and that they have all they need at that time to be able to live godly and holy lives. 1 Cor. 12:13 says, "For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit."

However, there are many Christians who claim to have had this "secondary" experience of the Spirit.2 They say that it has brought great blessing and comfort to them. Furthermore, they say that the results of the experience is a renewed dedication and appreciation for God, a stronger desire to read the Bible, a stronger desire to fellowship with Christians, and a deeper sense of worship of God. Millions of Christians who claim to have had this experience forces us to deal with the issue. Is it real or not? Let's look at the Scripture to find out.

The term "baptize with the Holy Spirit" occurs several times in scripture:

Matt. 3:11, "As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."Mark 1:8, "I baptized you with water; but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."�Luke 3:16, "John answered and said to them all, 'As for me, I baptize you with water; but One is coming who is mightier than I, and I am not fit to untie the thong of His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."John 1:33, "And I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, "He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the one who baptizes in the Holy Spirit."Acts 1:5, "for John baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."Acts 11:16, "And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, 'John baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit."

We can clearly see that the phrase is used in the Bible. But, we do not find a clear teaching in the Bible of what the phrase means. Nevertheless, we can conclude that when a person is baptized in the Holy Spirit he has power bestowed upon him. This power is for the purpose of the preaching of the gospel (Acts 4:31), living a purer life, and having a deeper devotion to God. Also, it is frequently accompanied by speaking in tongues. Acts 2:4, "And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance." At this point, I would recommend the reader to examine Acts 1-2 to see the movement of the Holy Spirit upon the early church at Pentecost.

The issue now seems to be whether or not Baptism of/in/with the Holy Spirit is a subsequent event occurring after salvation. It would seem that this is the case. In John 20:22, Jesus commanded that the disciples receive the Holy Spirit, "And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit." This means that they were saved since the Holy Spirit is not received by the unregenerate. Then, later in Acts 1:4-5 we read, "And gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, "Which,"� He said, "you heard of from Me; 5 for John baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."�

Conclusion

The danger of this phenomena is the potential division of the body of Christ into two categories: those who are "regular" Christians and those who have been baptized in the Holy Spirit. This, of course, would be an incorrect way of looking at Christians, and this is why. If you were to step outside into a soft mist, it would take a long time to get completely wet. On the other hand, if you were to step into a torrential rain, you'd be drenched quickly.

Those who have not experienced the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (meaning a sudden and powerful experience) are not second-class citizens by any means. They are the ones in the gentle mist who experience the Lord over a long period of time and get just as blessed as those who suddenly step into the torrent of the Spirit's presence. In fact, the Baptism of the Spirit can be a pitfall since so many people who have experienced it long for it again, almost to the point of putting the validity of their faith in the experience instead of the clear teaching of the word of God.

We must all be careful not to fall in our strengths as well as our weaknesses.

Sorry I posted part 2 of Pipers Acts study. Here's the first part which addresses your comments above.

http://www.desiringgod.org/messages/you-will-be-baptized-with-the-holy-spirit

 

[sculleywr]

Excuse me, but mine IS only one church, just like yours is.

But there is no united Church. There is no collection that matches what was given in Ephesians as One Body with one Faith. The "church" you preach of is really many bodies with many contradictory faiths. At least, that is what you are presenting

 

[redleghunter]

You weren't alive in the 4th century. The truth is, as you know, that the Holy Spirit worked through the Church. You learned which books should be in the New Testament from the Catholic Church.

Do we thank the curators at the Louvre for the Mona Lisa? Maybe we should but they are not the artists.

 

[Thursday]

He didn't, in terms of what they represent.
Peter's primacy is his place in the narrative, not hierarchical.
The same power of the keys is seen given to all discpiles present in chapter 18.

You are blatantly distorting scripture in both cases. Does it bother you that what you believe is so different than what the bible says?

 

[redleghunter]

This is true. Jesus founded the Catholic Church and gave it his authority:

John 20
21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

Matt 16
17Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” 20Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.

Which Catholic Church? East or West? We have Eastern Orthodox who claim the Roman Catholic Church was not founded by Christ.

 

[redleghunter]

But if it can be just as intelligently argued that it is NOT in Scripture, then SS fails as a means of discerning the truth.

Example please.

 

[Thursday]

Do we thank the curators at the Louvre for the Mona Lisa? Maybe we should but they are not the artists.

The Curators didn't paint the Mona Lisa. Members of the Catholic Church did write the New Testament, with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.