Easiest Defense of Sola Scriptura

[VanillaSunflowers]

What, that the Catholic Church at some point taught that Sacred Scripture is a thing to be detested ,loathed, cursed, and consigned to damnation or destruction? I stopped believing that kind of Chick-tract nonsense once I stopped learning about Catholic belief from folks who had no idea what they were talking about.

But that's not relevant to the topic. I answered the challenge of the OP, and proved that either there is a source of incontrovertible truth outside of Sacred Scripture, or else that we can't really be guaranteed of knowing what the true canon of Scripture is. So far no one's even pretended to rebut the logic of my argument.

You apparently are not aware of the definition of Anathema. Nor what the council of Trent decreed about scripture.
You have no logic in your argument. In fact it comes into question if you have any foundation in the Latin Rite church so as to know in future what you're speaking of and to since you demonstrate complete lack of knowledge as to the church and its decrees.

The Council of Trent decreed sola scriptura Anathema. You're unaware of this. That's why the reference to tracts.

The church, which is the body of faithful in the grace of God and not the edifice that was erected in Rome, believes we are saved by Gods Grace through Faith. Ephesians 2:8-10, is but one mention of this.
Believing that as Christians do was deemed an Anathema by the Latin Rites authority.

Let me just set it down from an outside source so as to help your understanding of what is being discussed.
Anathemas Proclaimed by the Catholic Church

Are you Anathema?


Do you believe that salvation is by grace through faith and not of works as stated in Ephesians 2:8-10? Then you are considered anathema!

COUNCIL OF TRENT: SIXTH SESSION, CANONS CONCERNING JUSTIFICATION CANON XXIV
If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema.

Do you believe that only those who believe should baptized as was done in Acts 2:41; 8:12; 10:47; 18:8 and therefore disagree with the Catholic Churches doctrine of infant baptism? Then you are consideredanathema!

COUNCIL OF TRENT: SEVENTH SESSION, CANONS ON BAPTISM CANON III
If any one saith, that in the Roman church, which is the mother and mistress of all churches, there is not the true doctrine concerning the sacrament of baptism; let him be anathema.

Do you agree with Paul that baptism is not part of the gospel (1 Cor 1:17) and therefore not required for salvation? Then you are considered anathema!

COUNCIL OF TRENT: SEVENTH SESSION, CANONS ON BAPTISM CANON V
If any one saith, that baptism is free, that is, not necessary unto salvation; let him be anathema.

Do you believe the Bible when it says that we must be able to believe and repent before we are baptized (Acts 2:38)? Then you are considered anathema!

COUNCIL OF TRENT: SEVENTH SESSION, CANONS ON BAPTISM CANON XIII
If any one saith, that little children, for that they have not actual faith, are not, after having received baptism, to be reckoned amongst the faithful; and that, for this cause, they are to be rebaptized when they have attained to years of discretion; or, that it is better that the baptism of such be omitted, than that, while not believing by their own act, they should be bapized in the faith alone of the Church; let him be anathema.

Do you believe that confirmation is not a proper sacrament since it is not taught in the Bible? Then you are considered anathema!

COUNCIL OF TRENT: SEVENTH SESSION, CANONS ON CONFIRMATON CANON I
If any one saith, that the confirmation of those who have been baptized is an idle ceremony, and not rather a true and proper sacrament; or that of old it was nothing more than a kind of catechism, whereby they who were near adolescence gave an account of their faith in the face of the Church; let him be anathema.

Do you deny that Christ complete in body, blood, soul and divinity are present in the Eucharist? Then you are considered anathema!

COUNCIL OF TRENT: THIRTEENTH SESSION, CANONS ON THE MOST HOLY SACRAMENT OF THE EUCHARIST CANON I
If any one denieth, that, in the sacrament of the most holy Eucharist, are contained truly, really, and substantially, the body and blood together with the soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and consequently the whole Christ; but saith that He is only therein as in a sign, or in figure, or virtue; let him be anathema.

Do you deny the doctrine of Transubstantiation since it is not taught in the scripture? Then you are considered anathema!

THIRTEENTH SESSION, CANONS ON THE MOST HOLY SACRAMENT OF THE EUCHARIST CANON lI:
If any one saith, that, in the sacred and holy sacrament of the Eucharist, the substance of the bread and wine remains conjointly with the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, and denieth that wonderful and singular conversion of the whole substance of the bread into the Body, and of the whole substance of the wine into the Blood-the species Only of the bread and wine remaining-which conversion indeed the Catholic Church most aptly calls Transubstantiation; let him be anathema.

Do you believe that Christ's sacrifice on the cross is the only sacrifice that will offer forgiveness of sins (Heb 10:12-14) and thefore deny that we receive forgiveness of sins by taking the Eucharist? Then you are considered anathema!

COUNCIL OF TRENT: THIRTEENTH SESSION, CANONS ON THE MOST HOLY SACRAMENT OF THE EUCHARIST CANON V
If any one saith, either that the principal fruit of the most holy Eucharist is the remission of sins, or, that other effects do not result therefrom; let him be anathema. let him be anathema.

Do you believe that we should not worship the bread of the Eucharist as if it were Christ complete? Then you are considered anathema!

COUNCIL OF TRENT: THIRTEENTH SESSION, CANONS ON THE MOST HOLY SACRAMENT OF THE EUCHARIST CANON VI
If any one saith, that, in the holy sacrament of the Eucharist, Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, is not to be adored with the worship, even external of latria; and is, consequently, neither to be venerated with a special festive solemnity, nor to be solemnly borne about in processions, according to the laudable and universal rite and custom of holy church; or, is not to be proposed publicly to the people to be adored, and that the adorers thereof are idolators; let him be anathema.

Do you believe that sacramental confession is not necessary to keep your salvation and that confessing secretly to priests is a doctrine made by man, not Christ? Then you are considered anathema!

COUNCIL OF TRENT: FOURTEENTH SESSION, CANONS CONCERNING THE MOST HOLY SACRAMENT OF PENANCE CANON VI
If any one denieth, either that sacramental confession was instituted, or is necessary to salvation, of divine right; or saith, that the manner of confessing secretly to a priest alone, which the Church hath ever observed from the beginning, and doth observe, is alien from the institution and command of Christ, and is a human invention; let him be anathema.

Do you believe that the Mass is NOT a real and true sacrifice offered to God because the Bible specifically says that there will be no more sacrifice for sins (Heb 10:18)? Then you are considered anathema!

COUNCIL OF TRENT: TWENTY-SECOND SESSION, CANONS ON THE SACRIFICE OF THE MASS CANON I
If any one saith, that in the mass a true and proper sacriflce is not offered to God; or, that to be offered is nothing else but that Christ is given us to eat; let him be anathema.

Do you believe that the Mass is NOT a propitiatory sacrifice that should be offered for the sins of both the living and dead saints for forgiveness of sins, punishment, etc.? Then you are considered anathema!

COUNCIL OF TRENT: TWENTY-SECOND SESSION, CANONS ON THE SACRIFICE OF THE MASS CANON III
If any one saith, that the sacrifice of the mass is only a sacrifice of praise and of thanksgiving; or, that it is a bare commemoration of the sacrifice consummated on the cross, but not a propitiatory sacrifice; or, that it profits him only who receives; and that it ought not to be offered for the living and the dead for sins, pains, satisfactions, and other necessities; let him be anathema.

Do you believe in the priesthood of the believers as stated in 1 Peter 2:9 and therefore do not believe that Catholic priests have the power to retain and forgive sins? Then you are considered anathema!

TWENTY-THIRD SESSION, CANONS ON THE SACRAMENT OF ORDER CANON I
If any one saith, that there is not in the New Testament a visible and external priesthood; or that there is not any power of consecrating and offering the true body and blood of the Lord, and of forgiving and retaining sins; but only an office and bare ministry of preaching the Gospel, or, that those who do not preach are not priests at all; let him be anathema.

Do you deny the legitimacy of the bishops appointed by Rome? Then you are considered anathema!

COUNCIL OF TRENT: TWENTY-THIRD SESSION, CANONS ON THE SACRAMENT OF ORDER CANON VIII
If any one saith, that the bishops, who are assumed by authority of the Roman Pontiff, are not legitimate and true bishops, but are a human figment; let him be anathema.

 

[Alonso_Castillo]

It is arrogant for any man made denomonation to determine that they alone are the Church or body of Christ. Any human who has accepted Christ as their savior is part of the body of Christ. God could care less what "denomonation" your parents were.... it's nothing but an earthly denotation. God sees your heart. A person born Muslim, who accepts Christ is now a member of the church. A Budist, who accepts Christ is now a member. A Catholic. Anglican, Baptist, Jew or Tibetin monk who accept Christ for who He is, the savior, is then at that moment and forever after a member of the Church or the Body of Christ...

So, lets drop the arguing over who has a special club ticket to salvation. It is for all mankind.

Right, God calls his sheep from wherever they are, but the Sheep of The Lord Hears his voice and FOLLOW HIM. if you having the posibility of do what the Lord calls you to do, in the Church He founded, then you are plugging your ears by your own will, and are rejecting to OBEY CHRIST, How then can you claim to be of his flock?

 

[tatteredsoul]

Then let's stick with the first of those and agree that it--Works Righteousness--is not the reason any of us has the prospect of salvation.

Ok. I just want people to know some of us actually "do it for teh lulz," (for Love of God) and not because we expect a reward.

He IS God, so of course he was sinless by nature.

This simplicity is what confuses people about the entire salvation, and life phenomenon of God. It's the final piece of the jigsaw puzzle - except it is hidden under the puzzle itself for many.

Hopefully, that's so. But so also does it apply to the "good works" that such a person may perform after conversion. No one should think that these are even partially responsible for the salvation of any believer.

We are arguing two sides of the same coin.

I think we can agree the spirit will move people's work - obedient or charitable - according to God's will if the person is for God. We can judge the fruit, but the chemistry of the intent of the person doing what s/he does will thankfully be handled by a Perfect judge who sees all.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

Christ will Save those who obeyed him, If Christ spoke of His CHURCH, and not of his CHURCHES is because he was Forming ONE FLOCK not MANY FLOCKS, Christ has ONLY ONE BODY, NOT MANY BODIES.
Hebrews 3:18-19

But contrary to cultists, in the NT the church, which the Lord purchased with His sinless shed blood, (Acts 20:28) consists of all who are born of the Spirit, by which we are baptized into one body, (1Co. 12:13) and which is the only one true church. For it alone only and always consists 100% of believers, whereas visible organic churches, though Scriptural, inevitably are admixtures of wheat and tares.

And by invoking Heb. 3:18-19 to relegate all those who are not in your church of Rome to be disobedient=lost then it is you who are being disobedient to the Lord Jesus.

 

[Alonso_Castillo]

John 20 says nothing of confession...
Secondly, I can daily confess my sins directly to Christ. Every hour, minute, day ,week whatever, He will always be there for me... I need no body to intercede for my. Christ is beside me. He walks with me, talks with me, every second of my life on this earth. And, when I close my eyes on this earth for the last time, when I open them I will be in His presence for eternity.

Wrong, Go and Read John 20:23, again, He speaks those Word to the Apostles, not any other. And Pauls call himself MINISTER of RECONCILIATION. 2 Corinthians 5:18

 

[Albion]

Ok. I just want people to know some of us actually "do it for teh lulz," (for Love of God) and not because we expect a reward.

Sure. I guess that my point was only that this is the way real disciples respond. They "do it" BECAUSE they are disciples and want to do God's will, not because of any selfish motive.

 

[fhansen]

You apparently are not aware of the definition of Anathema. Nor what the council of Trent decreed about scripture.
You have no logic in your argument. In fact it comes into question if you have any foundation in the Latin Rite church so as to know in future what you're speaking of and to since you demonstrate complete lack of knowledge as to the church and its decrees.

The Council of Trent decreed sola scriptura Anathema. You're unaware of this. That's why the reference to tracts.

The church, which is the body of faithful in the grace of God and not the edifice that was erected in Rome, believes we are saved by Gods Grace through Faith. Ephesians 2:8-10, is but one mention of this.
Believing that as Christians do was deemed an Anathema by the Latin Rites authority.

Let me just set it down from an outside source so as to help your understanding of what is being discussed.
Anathemas Proclaimed by the Catholic Church

Are you Anathema?


Do you believe that salvation is by grace through faith and not of works as stated in Ephesians 2:8-10? Then you are considered anathema!

COUNCIL OF TRENT: SIXTH SESSION, CANONS CONCERNING JUSTIFICATION CANON XXIV
If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema.

Do you believe that only those who believe should baptized as was done in Acts 2:41; 8:12; 10:47; 18:8 and therefore disagree with the Catholic Churches doctrine of infant baptism? Then you are consideredanathema!

COUNCIL OF TRENT: SEVENTH SESSION, CANONS ON BAPTISM CANON III
If any one saith, that in the Roman church, which is the mother and mistress of all churches, there is not the true doctrine concerning the sacrament of baptism; let him be anathema.

Do you agree with Paul that baptism is not part of the gospel (1 Cor 1:17) and therefore not required for salvation? Then you are considered anathema!

COUNCIL OF TRENT: SEVENTH SESSION, CANONS ON BAPTISM CANON V
If any one saith, that baptism is free, that is, not necessary unto salvation; let him be anathema.

Do you believe the Bible when it says that we must be able to believe and repent before we are baptized (Acts 2:38)? Then you are considered anathema!

COUNCIL OF TRENT: SEVENTH SESSION, CANONS ON BAPTISM CANON XIII
If any one saith, that little children, for that they have not actual faith, are not, after having received baptism, to be reckoned amongst the faithful; and that, for this cause, they are to be rebaptized when they have attained to years of discretion; or, that it is better that the baptism of such be omitted, than that, while not believing by their own act, they should be bapized in the faith alone of the Church; let him be anathema.

Do you believe that confirmation is not a proper sacrament since it is not taught in the Bible? Then you are considered anathema!

COUNCIL OF TRENT: SEVENTH SESSION, CANONS ON CONFIRMATON CANON I
If any one saith, that the confirmation of those who have been baptized is an idle ceremony, and not rather a true and proper sacrament; or that of old it was nothing more than a kind of catechism, whereby they who were near adolescence gave an account of their faith in the face of the Church; let him be anathema.

Do you deny that Christ complete in body, blood, soul and divinity are present in the Eucharist? Then you are considered anathema!

COUNCIL OF TRENT: THIRTEENTH SESSION, CANONS ON THE MOST HOLY SACRAMENT OF THE EUCHARIST CANON I
If any one denieth, that, in the sacrament of the most holy Eucharist, are contained truly, really, and substantially, the body and blood together with the soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and consequently the whole Christ; but saith that He is only therein as in a sign, or in figure, or virtue; let him be anathema.

Do you deny the doctrine of Transubstantiation since it is not taught in the scripture? Then you are considered anathema!

THIRTEENTH SESSION, CANONS ON THE MOST HOLY SACRAMENT OF THE EUCHARIST CANON lI:
If any one saith, that, in the sacred and holy sacrament of the Eucharist, the substance of the bread and wine remains conjointly with the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, and denieth that wonderful and singular conversion of the whole substance of the bread into the Body, and of the whole substance of the wine into the Blood-the species Only of the bread and wine remaining-which conversion indeed the Catholic Church most aptly calls Transubstantiation; let him be anathema.

Do you believe that Christ's sacrifice on the cross is the only sacrifice that will offer forgiveness of sins (Heb 10:12-14) and thefore deny that we receive forgiveness of sins by taking the Eucharist? Then you are considered anathema!

COUNCIL OF TRENT: THIRTEENTH SESSION, CANONS ON THE MOST HOLY SACRAMENT OF THE EUCHARIST CANON V
If any one saith, either that the principal fruit of the most holy Eucharist is the remission of sins, or, that other effects do not result therefrom; let him be anathema. let him be anathema.

Do you believe that we should not worship the bread of the Eucharist as if it were Christ complete? Then you are considered anathema!

COUNCIL OF TRENT: THIRTEENTH SESSION, CANONS ON THE MOST HOLY SACRAMENT OF THE EUCHARIST CANON VI
If any one saith, that, in the holy sacrament of the Eucharist, Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, is not to be adored with the worship, even external of latria; and is, consequently, neither to be venerated with a special festive solemnity, nor to be solemnly borne about in processions, according to the laudable and universal rite and custom of holy church; or, is not to be proposed publicly to the people to be adored, and that the adorers thereof are idolators; let him be anathema.

Do you believe that sacramental confession is not necessary to keep your salvation and that confessing secretly to priests is a doctrine made by man, not Christ? Then you are considered anathema!

COUNCIL OF TRENT: FOURTEENTH SESSION, CANONS CONCERNING THE MOST HOLY SACRAMENT OF PENANCE CANON VI
If any one denieth, either that sacramental confession was instituted, or is necessary to salvation, of divine right; or saith, that the manner of confessing secretly to a priest alone, which the Church hath ever observed from the beginning, and doth observe, is alien from the institution and command of Christ, and is a human invention; let him be anathema.

Do you believe that the Mass is NOT a real and true sacrifice offered to God because the Bible specifically says that there will be no more sacrifice for sins (Heb 10:18)? Then you are considered anathema!

COUNCIL OF TRENT: TWENTY-SECOND SESSION, CANONS ON THE SACRIFICE OF THE MASS CANON I
If any one saith, that in the mass a true and proper sacriflce is not offered to God; or, that to be offered is nothing else but that Christ is given us to eat; let him be anathema.

Do you believe that the Mass is NOT a propitiatory sacrifice that should be offered for the sins of both the living and dead saints for forgiveness of sins, punishment, etc.? Then you are considered anathema!

COUNCIL OF TRENT: TWENTY-SECOND SESSION, CANONS ON THE SACRIFICE OF THE MASS CANON III
If any one saith, that the sacrifice of the mass is only a sacrifice of praise and of thanksgiving; or, that it is a bare commemoration of the sacrifice consummated on the cross, but not a propitiatory sacrifice; or, that it profits him only who receives; and that it ought not to be offered for the living and the dead for sins, pains, satisfactions, and other necessities; let him be anathema.

Do you believe in the priesthood of the believers as stated in 1 Peter 2:9 and therefore do not believe that Catholic priests have the power to retain and forgive sins? Then you are considered anathema!

TWENTY-THIRD SESSION, CANONS ON THE SACRAMENT OF ORDER CANON I
If any one saith, that there is not in the New Testament a visible and external priesthood; or that there is not any power of consecrating and offering the true body and blood of the Lord, and of forgiving and retaining sins; but only an office and bare ministry of preaching the Gospel, or, that those who do not preach are not priests at all; let him be anathema.

Do you deny the legitimacy of the bishops appointed by Rome? Then you are considered anathema!

COUNCIL OF TRENT: TWENTY-THIRD SESSION, CANONS ON THE SACRAMENT OF ORDER CANON VIII
If any one saith, that the bishops, who are assumed by authority of the Roman Pontiff, are not legitimate and true bishops, but are a human figment; let him be anathema.

Anathema, as used, meant 'worthy to be shunned'. While stronger language than most in the west would use today against religious error, false doctrine was/is considered to be a serious matter. Either way, Trent was right on in its teachings on the the faith.

 

[Albion]

Wrong, Go and Read John 20:23, again, He speaks those Word to the Apostles, not any other.

You'd agree, then, that there are no Popes after Peter, no Apostolic Succession, and no authority of today's priests to forgive sin or celebrate the Eucharist....

...since those words were (as you said) spoken "to the Apostles, not any other."

 

[Alonso_Castillo]

But contrary to cultists, in the NT the church, which the Lord purchased with His sinless shed blood, (Acts 20:28) consists of all who are born of the Spirit, by which we are baptized into one body, (1Co. 12:13) and which is the only one true church. For it alone only and always consists 100% of believers, whereas visible organic churches, though Scriptural, inevitably are admixtures of wheat and tares.

And by invoking Heb. 3:18-19 to relegate all those who are not in your church of Rome to be disobedient=lost then it is you who are being disobedient to the Lord Jesus.

Luke 10:16

"Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me."

Christ said this to the ones who he sent. Yes you can proclaim Him as the Lord and savior, but you MUST analyse what is causing you to hate to enter in his body the way he wants you to do it.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

Anathema, as used, meant 'worthy to be shunned'. While stronger language than most in the west would use today against religious error, false doctrine was/is considered to be a serious matter. Either way, Trent was right on in its teachings on the the faith.

Trent was empowered to create teachings exclusive to the catholic faith. Nothing more.

 

[Alonso_Castillo]

You'd agree, then, that there are no Popes after Peter, no Apostolic Succession, and no authority of today's priests to forgive sin or celebrate the Eucharist....

...since those words were (as you said) spoken "to the Apostles, not any other."

That would mean that nobody is then baptized and that the day John died the Gates of heaven were closed.....

 

[Albion]

Trent was empowered to create teachings exclusive to the catholic faith. Nothing more.

...and made most of its changes only because of having been challenged by the Protestant Reformers.

 

[Albion]

That would mean that nobody is then baptized and that the day John died the Gates of heaven were closed.....

Whatever you say.

I was just pointing to the consequences of using your logic when you said that what Jesus commissioned his Apostles to do stayed with them and was not passed onto anyone else.

 

[JacksBratt]

Barnabas was also regarded as an apostle. Yet he was not called directly by the Lord in person, (Acts 14:14)

So, in all reality, nobody else has ever been called "directly" by the lord, in person. Therefore, nobody has true power or authority...

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

...and made most of its changes only because of having been challenged by the Protestant Reformers.

True. The purpose being to discredit Protestantism in the strongest language possible. And empower the church in the process.

 

[JacksBratt]

Right, God calls his sheep from wherever they are, but the Sheep of The Lord Hears his voice and FOLLOW HIM. if you having the posibility of do what the Lord calls you to do, in the Church He founded, then you are plugging your ears by your own will, and are rejecting to OBEY CHRIST, How then can you claim to be of his flock?

I am of the flock because I accepted His gift of salvation and became a child of God. It matters not what the front of my church says, if it preaches the saving blood of Christs death and resurrection......

Are you so bold to say that if I am not a Catholic and don't go to a Priest to confess, that I am damned???? Really?

I say, even though you are a Catholic, you too can be saved, just like every other human being who walked on this earth...

 

[Albion]

True. The purpose being to discredit Protestantism in the strongest language possible. And empower the church in the process.

I'm not sure of that. When the RCC ordered that priests actually hear confessions, that teenage children of prominent men not be ordained priests simply as a favor, and when it altered its own version of the canon of Scripture after criticizing Luther for the same thing, I'd see that less as an attack on Protestantism than as a backhanded concession that the Reformers had been correct.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

The three things that can go wrong with a logical argument are false premises, ambiguous terms and logical fallacies.

Fault one; My thread or SS is proven by logical argument. You are playing with Playdough with your Plato talk. Your argument was based on a discussion with Albion on the origin of scripture. Notice that my thread is a defense of SS. In such I made no attempt to prove points 1,2 and 3. They are purely statements held by the majority of Christians. Although some quibble and argue the Bible can't be 100% incontrovertibly true, that was another thread.

On to your rambling "proof". Start with your very first statement, "the premise of the thread is that there is no source of incontrovertible truth other than the Bible." I challenge you to quote this anywhere in my OP. It is not there. Statement 5 is close, but there is an important difference if you can read. Further statement 5 is not even a premise. Learn what a premise is. It does not assert that there is no other source of truth. Statement 5 is really the intro to what you might call the conclusion of my argument. I will rewrite it to fit your playdough mind.

Since another source of incontrovertible truth has not been proven, by default there is only Sola Scriptura.​

I will make it even simpler so you can follow logic.

A is known true.
B another may or may not be true.
Since no other B has not been proven
Conclusion: Only A is known true. ​

Do you think you can fit my statements in the OP into this?

You have not disproved A, points 1,2 or 3.
You have not proven B, point 4.
Therefore you have not disproved my conclusion.
The only thing you have proven is that YOU can't prove anything.

If you wish to show that my argument is flawed you need to show that it contains one of the three things that can go wrong with an argument. So far all you've done is dismiss my reasoning out of hand, which isn't a rational rebuttal at all because it's one big logical fallacy (and completely misrepresents my argument as well, and so is also based on false premises).

You should learn that not all logical arguments have to be disproved with logic concepts. The simplest way to disprove an argument is with an example that clearly contradicts the argument. Even though your "argument" was not a valid argument against my OP, I did respond with a glaringly obvious faulty example to your conclusion.

Let me break down your argument and make it simple so you can follow it.

A true scripture needs to be "established".
B words can only be established by an equal or greater source of truth
C the church established scripture
Conclusion: Since the church established scripture it must have equal or greater truth.​

Shall I add some QED's to make it look smart?
QED QED QED QED QED QED

Now read my response to your "argument" and see a clear example of a violation of your conclusion. If you can't understand how the Jews in the OT established OT scripture and were given authority by God to guide his OT church but failed miserably at following God in truth then you are deaf. As in:

Mat 13:14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.​

Your type of response to this topic is exactly the kind of thing that convinced me to abandon the incoherence of Reformation theology and become Catholic.
Your authoritarian rule of "truth" is what caused me to leave the Lutheran Church. For while Protestant, they still act like you do. There is no wonder that the Roman Catholic Church took the Roman name, for they act like the Romans did; rule by force; my way or death/excommunication.

I never attempt illogical rebuttals, only logical ones.

Your logic is faulty and you ignore a challenging argument against your believe. Further you demand SS prove their position but think yourself so entitled to not have to prove yours. Hypocrites.

My thread has repeatedly asked for proof of another incontrovertible truth. You provide none but attack the authority of scripture. You do that because that is all you have to attack in SS. How ironic, you claim authority over scripture because you "created the Bible", but then you knock it down. I hope most Catholics don't have such a low opinion of scripture as you do.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

So, in all reality, nobody else has ever been called "directly" by the lord, in person. Therefore, nobody has true power or authority...

People called in the Church today by the Holy Spirit are called to serve the Church. They have some authority, but not that of the apostles. The first 12 apostles had a special authority to speak God's word that would be recorded as scripture. They were promised 12 thrones. They had Jesus and miracles to testify to their authority. Today you don't.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

Christ only Save those who obey him, and sin can be Forgiven by CONFESION, to CONFESS the sins to the Priests is OBEDIENCE TO CHRIST:

John 20:23
when you forgive men’s sins, they are forgiven, when you hold them bound, they are held bound.

You are saved by grace, the same grace which gives you strenght enough to OBEY and remain in the flock of Christ, to be catholic is a VERY VERY Special Grace. To reject to Be Catholic is to Reject the saving Grace by an act of disbelief and disobedience.

If the Catholics only acknowledge that everyone is told to forgive others sins, they would not be so uptight about CONFESSION.

Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye:
Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.