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I understand and I agree with what you said. I was just expressing my views about creation and also sharing a mistake I have seen Christians make around non Christians. Maybe someone might remember that if ever in a future situation.
Earth verses the big bang is the epic, David and Goliath battle, of God’s Creation story. God created Earth first, then the ‘Big Bang’, ‘Let There Be Light!’. Atheist scientists hate this part of God’s Creation story and disallow the thought of earth being created apart from their ‘Big Bang’. The thing is, for us, one week’s time, creationists, the way God explains it, we have two separate events. Two separate events allows for Time Dilation, big time!, in God’s Creation of everything that exists.
God created the earth. Earth existed for a while before light was created by God. God ‘s ‘Let There Be Light!’ is the ‘Big Bang’ going off.
Hi Mark, as I said in my original post, If we take the Hebrew calendar as Gods calendar the evening and the morning one day, one day means one day, any doubts we only need go to Exodus 20:8 and 11 "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. In order for the Universe to be millions or billions of years old, it would have had to be in existence before the earth, Genesis 1:16 says otherwise, God made two great lights--the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. And there was evening, and there was morning--the fourth day. So the Sun, Moon and stars which make up the Universe were not around until the 4th day, that also knocks out the big bang theory. BlessingsGod made the heavens and the earth and there was the Big Bang that included everything in the universe. The sun, moon, stars and of course earth. Then, sometime later, perhaps billions of years later, God decided to do creation week. It might have been minutes or it could have been billions of years.
You are aware that the person who postulated the Big Bang theory was a devout Catholic monk, right?Earth verses the big bang is the epic, David and Goliath battle, of God’s Creation story. God created Earth first, then the ‘Big Bang’, ‘Let There Be Light!’. Atheist scientists hate this part of God’s Creation story and disallow the thought of earth being created apart from their ‘Big Bang’. The thing is, for us, one week’s time, creationists, the way God explains it, we have two separate events. Two separate events allows for Time Dilation, big time!, in God’s Creation of everything that exists.
God created the earth. Earth existed for a while before light was created by God. God ‘s ‘Let There Be Light!’ is the ‘Big Bang’ going off. All of a sudden, next to earth, was the mass of one septillion stars on the head of a needle. Some say that God is not powerful enough to accelerate a planet the size of earth to light speed. I say, God popping into existence the mass of one septillion stars on the head of a needle is, light speed for earth accomplished! The gravitational pull of the mass of one septillion stars, on the head of a needle, is enough force to put earth into light speed, immediately. Or God can simply have created earth into existence already traveling at the speed of light. Science tells us that empty space probably flowed out into existence in front of the Big Bang. There is earth, traveling at the speed of light, through empty space, riding the wave of empty space coming into existence. Surfs up Dude!
With the explosion of the big bang, now earth has a light source to revolve next to, and thus day and night, equaling the passage of time; or in other words, days going by and the passage of time. God’s clock, as well as our clock on earth, even scientists with theoretical starships, is our revolving earth past a light source. God did not put the sun and stars into earth’s sky until the fourth day of creation. For four days, the 'Big Bang' was earth's, day vs night, light source. Using Time Dilation, the earth, traveling at the speed of light, and the big bang, traveling at a much slower velocity, then billions of years of star formation can occur in four days. This is Time Dilation. It only makes sense for God to do it this way. The explosion of the ‘Big Bang’ needs time to cool off before God inserts earth into the ‘big bang’ Cosmos. Besides that, even traveling at the speed of light, light is going to need some time to travel the billions of miles from the stars to earths target area of our sun’s orbit. So earth traveling at, or near, the speed of light, only makes sense for God to do it this way, while billions of years of star formation come into existence, for every day/night rotation on earth.
After a couple days on earth, which equates to many billions of years at the lower velocity of the big bang, earth enters into the the big bang debris field. Stars have already been born, lived, went super nova, and died in this debris area. Remember, earth, traveling near the speed of light is only seeing days go by while the big bang Cosmos has already experienced many billions of years of elapsing time, due to Time Dilation. Earth is absorbing some of this, billions of years old, debris like bugs on a windshield. The reason earth looks five billion years old is due to this, bugs on a windshield, effect on young earth that was born before the big bang, traveling through the billions of years of debris of the big bang. Earth herself is only days old while the debris she is runing into and absorbing is billions of years old. This is Time Dilation.
Finally, earth is captured by our sun’s gravitational pull and imprisoned in our sun’s orbit, on the fourth day of creation. A couple days go by on earth and God put man on earth. And God said, ‘It is good!’.
Anything can happen when God and Time Dilation are involved.
Creationists are not asking atheist scientists to say that this is the way it happened. Creationists are only asking atheist scientists to confirm that seven days of creation by God is a plausable and acceptable theory.
Time dilation and space flight
Time dilation would make it possible for passengers in a fast-moving vehicle to travel further into the future while aging very little, in that their great speed slows down the rate of passage of on-board time. That is, the ship's clock (and according to relativity, any human traveling with it) shows less elapsed time than the clocks of observers on earth. For sufficiently high speeds the effect is dramatic. For example, one year of travel might correspond to ten years at home. Indeed, a constant 1 g acceleration would permit humans to travel through the entire known Universe in one human lifetime. The space travelers could return to Earth billions of years in the future. A scenario based on this idea was presented in the novel Planet of the Apes by Pierre Boulle.
Quoted From: Wikipedia Time Dilation
Hello Jason,Actually, you should refer to God's creation as the six day creation and not the seven day creation because God created everything in six literal 24 hour days and not in seven days. God rested (stopped) from his work on the 7th day. I heard a Christian artist sing a song (talking about the creation) and they made the mistake by saying that God created everything in seven days; But that is simply not true.
Anyways, the words "evening and the morning" lets us know that these are 24 hour days being spoken of within the six day creation and not long periods of time. You have to do gymnastic twists with the words "evening and morning" all because you favor outside worldy ideas over what the Bible actually says plainly.
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Hello Armoured,You are aware that the person who postulated the Big Bang theory was a devout Catholic monk, right?
I understand enough. I'm the one who pointed out to you that shining a flashlight away from you doesn't stop time and that there's no static universal background other day.Hello Armoured,
Yes, I am aware of that. I think we discussed this. I am on board with the 'big bang' as being God saying, 'Let There Be Light'. Earth was created before, and then along side the big bang. Do you understand Time Dilation. Depending on velocity, Earth can be only thousands of years created in a universe with stars which have had billions of years of elapsing time. Do you understand how Time Dilation works?
Hello Jason,
If the Sun had not been created till the fourth day of creation, how do you know that the first four days of creation were, our present day, 24 hours? Without the sun yet created in the first four days of creation, what do you think the 'Let There Be Light', light source was? I think what scientists see as the 'big bang' is God saying 'Let There Be Light'. I think the earth was rotating night and day in front of the big bang. What speed the earth was rotating, with out the gravetational pull of our sun, is still open for interpetation.
What do you think of Time Dilation? Do you understand that, scientifically, the earth can only be days old while billions of years of star formation come into existence. As long as earth is crusing near the speed of light, billions of years can be going by at lower velocities. Stars need time to cool and light needs time to travel from the stars. God using time dilation during creation could aline science with Genisis. What do you think?
Does it really matter?
Wolfe, it might if you develop an interest in sharing God's word with the non believer ... Big Bang and evolution are commonly assumed by the non believer and still being taught in school as fact, not theory. It's amazing how many Aethiests will swear on evolution when it was debunked in the 1800's and even Darwin wasn't sure! If you do have further interest, Lee Strobel is a highly respected and sought after aethiest turned Christian speaker/ journalist. His "Case For A Creator" book published in 2004 is one of the tried and trusted resources on the subject. God Bless!
Perhaps you did not say exactly what you wanted to say but I would be stunned if what you say here is correct.Depending on velocity, Earth can be only thousands of years created in a universe with stars which have had billions of years of elapsing time. Do you understand how Time Dilation works?
Hi Mark, as I said in my original post, If we take the Hebrew calendar as Gods calendar the evening and the morning one day, one day means one day, any doubts we only need go to Exodus 20:8 and 11 "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. In order for the Universe to be millions or billions of years old, it would have had to be in existence before the earth, Genesis 1:16 says otherwise, God made two great lights--the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. And there was evening, and there was morning--the fourth day. So the Sun, Moon and stars which make up the Universe were not around until the 4th day, that also knocks out the big bang theory. Blessings
I sat in a college classroom and learned the earth is billions of years old. I saw evidence of an earth that was much older than one could determine by counting the generations in the OT. This evidence does not negate the existence of a creator God. It only makes me understand Genesis was written by man and man is not perfect.
Perhaps you did not say exactly what you wanted to say but I would be stunned if what you say here is correct.
Let's all be honest with each other: no one here is qualified as an authority on quantum physics, general relativity, or other relevant disciplines.
But there are people who are. And it is wildly implausible to imagine that you - or anyone else here including me for that matter - has discovered some sort of "loophole" that makes a 6000 or 10000 year old plausible when the clear consensus of the experts is that the earth is billions of years old.
In the Old Testament day simply means day that vast majority of the time:Alaska can still have darkness for many days and yet they still have an evening and a morning. When we say evening and morning to a person, we know that it is a 24 hour period of time. Nowhere in the history of writing was an evening and morning in reference to a day not in reference to a small set amount of hours. To interpret the text some other way means we can start to look at other parts of the Bible that refer to a 24 hours as not being 24 hours.
For example: Do we interpret that Jesus was resurrected in 3 literal 24 hours or do we struggle with the text to think that it might have been longer? No. You just accept that it was 24 hours because that is what it says. But because you favor worldly science over what is written in Scripture, you are struggling to accept what the text plainly says. I would suggest that you ask God about it and ask Him what He really meant. Ask Him to lead you to the truth on this within His Word.
Earth verses the big bang is the epic, David and Goliath battle, of God’s Creation story. God created Earth first, then the ‘Big Bang’, ‘Let There Be Light!’.
God ‘s ‘Let There Be Light!’ is the ‘Big Bang’ going off.
The Big Bang is exactly what you would expect from a spontaneous act of creation, God spoke and BANG there it is. Creation week is separate from the Big Bang, the creation of the universe or the 'heavens and the earth' were previous, perhaps minutes, perhaps billions of years previous. The doctrine of creation isn't effected in any way. So, I agree with regards to the Big Bang but the 'let there be light' was the first day of creation.:This would assume that God needed light to cause the "big bang" or whatever you would describe it as, when He "created the heavens and the earth". Which was the very first thing we are told that He did.
Who says?... Who says that "Let there be light" is the Big Bang going off?
I say.... "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth".... BANG.
If there ever was an event that could be called the "Big Bang", that was it.
In the Old Testament day simply means day that vast majority of the time:
The KJV translates Strong's H3117 in the following manner: day (2,008x), time (64x), chronicles (with H1697) (37x), daily (44x), ever (18x), year (14x), continually (10x), when (10x), as (10x), while (8x), full 8 always (4x), whole (4x), alway (4x), miscellaneous (44x). (Strong’s BLB)
There is special emphasis on the expression 'evening and morning', an even stronger indication that what is meant here is a normal 24 hour day:
H3117 - yowm: Day (as opposed to night). day (24 hour period). as defined by evening and morning in Genesis 1 (Outline of Biblical Usage)
It is used 2,287 times, 2008 times it's just a normal day and translated accordingly for good reason, that's what it means. In Genesis 1 when it refers to the six days of creation it clearly indicate by saying, 'there was evening and morning' that it's a normal 24 hour day. That is clear from the text.
Something considered an exception is the 'Day of the Lord', The Book of Zechariah describes a single day that apparently goes on forever, no morning or evening, no seasons. It's describing the eternal state, but it's accomplished on a single day:
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light. And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. (Zech. 14:7-8)
It literally says, ‘it shall be 'one' (‘echad ʼechâd אֶחָד H259) day’. That’s from the normal Hebrew number 1 indicating a single day.
That's kind of a tricky one but the usual explanation is that any part of a day is considered a day. So Jesus dies later Friday just before dusk, he is in the tomb all day Saturday, then Sunday he is resurrected. There is another possibility that simply says that Jesus ate Passover early but that one is a little bit awkward to work with. Very often the context is important, day can mean different things and in some cases might just be an expression or maybe not even a whole day. That would be an exception not the rule.
Grace and peace,
Mark
I pretty much agree, the thing about Genesis one is that there is no figurative language, no 'like' or 'as', no literary basis of a comparison thus no figurative interpretation. The phrase, 'evening and morning' is a part of the literary genre, it's actually poetic prose which gives it a rhyme and meter making it easier to speak and memorize. It's also just how the ancient Hebrews wrote and I suspect how they talked and especially how they taught people. The Levites had that sole responsibility of teaching the Law, at least three times a year where the reading of the Law was required and attendance was mandatory they would read it to all the people. There were were six Levitical cities of refuge which were meant to be centers of learning the Law, they didn't inherit land they received those cities and the tithes and burnt offerings. BTW, Moses was a Levite, as well as a prophet."Evening and morning" is not a stronger indication that the word "day" is 24 hours it simply means that IT IS 24 hours. The only reason somebody would want to make the day in Genesis say something different is if outside ideas were to force their minds into thinking it could not possibly mean that. That is the only reason. For one's decision from outside sources is what is influencing them and it is not some understanding they gained from simply reading God's Word all on it's own. Oh, and there is plenty of evidences that support a Young Earth, as well. Most people simpy do not want to accept that because they want to fit in with the world.
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Earth verses the big bang is the epic, David and Goliath battle, of God’s Creation story. God created Earth first, then the ‘Big Bang’, ‘Let There Be Light!’...
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