Earth is geocentric (perhaps even flat)

[Split Rock]

If not flat earth, then creationists should at the very least support geocentrism.

Joshua 10:13:
And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

If the sun stood still, then that means the sun was orbiting the earth not the other way around. This proves geocentrism (along with many other verses).....

This is easily interpreted as movement relative to the earth. The biggest geocentric indicator is the description of the creation of the earth, sun and moon. The earth is created first, and both sun and moon placed into the firmament above the earth. This is a geocentric model.

flat earth also supports the celestial objects circling the earth.

Why do you keep saying this?

Both the sun AND the moon stood still...this proves celestial objects orbit the earth.

Are we going to trust the worldly science and NASA and make excuses or are we going to let God's word speak for itself? Many verses....the bible is literally saying it's a flat earth.

Why don't you prove it? Go to the edge of the world and take some photos.

 

[Doctor Strangelove]

If you take Genesis as imposing a monotheistic view on ancient Near Eastern cosmology, radically changing the cosmology to support monotheism, using it to introduce the Hebrew God, then you can appreciate it without reducing it to a myth on one hand or without having to be too literal on the other hand.

 

[morse86]

This is easily interpreted as movement relative to the earth. The biggest geocentric indicator is the description of the creation of the earth, sun and moon. The earth is created first, and both sun and moon placed into the firmament above the earth. This is a geocentric model.

This could mean either geocentric model OR a flat earth (as the other verses in the same chapter supports the flat earth...see the first post in this topic).

What you just said is more support of the flat earth. If the earth was a sphere, how can the firmament be above the earth? The firmament must "cover" the entire earth.......so this proves that it is a flat earth.

It cannnot cover a sphere, because then where is "above the earth".

 

[KWCrazy]

Interesting. that's what most of us think about all the rest of you fundamentalist bible literalists.

What exactly is a "Bible literalist?"
What part of "Thous shalt not..." is unclear?
When the days of creation are numbered, clarification is further given that the evening and the morning comprised the days AND the six day creation is part of the Ten Commandments, how can that be a metaphor?
When Jesus quoted from Genesis and said, "Haven’t you read that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female," is there any question as to the beginning He was referencing?

I don't expect you to believe the Bible. I DO expect that those who claim to believe in the Lord would not deliberately twist and distort the Scriptures. Frankly, if you don't believe the word of God as written, then you need to seriously investigate the origin of what you believe. If it comes from man, it's false doctrine.

The difference is, you put your faith in the observable world around you. I put mine in the Lord who created it.

 

[keith99]

What exactly is a "Bible literalist?"
What part of "Thous shalt not..." is unclear?
When the days of creation are numbered, clarification is further given that the evening and the morning comprised the days AND the six day creation is part of the Ten Commandments, how can that be a metaphor?
When Jesus quoted from Genesis and said, "Haven’t you read that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female," is there any question as to the beginning He was referencing?

I don't expect you to believe the Bible. I DO expect that those who claim to believe in the Lord would not deliberately twist and distort the Scriptures. Frankly, if you don't believe the word of God as written, then you need to seriously investigate the origin of what you believe. If it comes from man, it's false doctrine.

The difference is, you put your faith in the observable world around you. I put mine in the Lord who created it.

I don't recall anything mentioning a 6 day creation in the commandments either when originally given in Leviticus or when repeated in Deuteronomy.

Perhaps you could cite the verse that supports your claim? Or more likely it is you who is twisting Scripture.

 

[Mr Strawberry]

What exactly is a "Bible literalist?"
What part of "Thous shalt not..." is unclear?
When the days of creation are numbered, clarification is further given that the evening and the morning comprised the days AND the six day creation is part of the Ten Commandments, how can that be a metaphor?
When Jesus quoted from Genesis and said, "Haven’t you read that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female," is there any question as to the beginning He was referencing?

I don't expect you to believe the Bible. I DO expect that those who claim to believe in the Lord would not deliberately twist and distort the Scriptures. Frankly, if you don't believe the word of God as written, then you need to seriously investigate the origin of what you believe. If it comes from man, it's false doctrine.

The difference is, you put your faith in the observable world around you. I put mine in the Lord who created it.

Lol, and there was me thinking you might have been granted a brief but edifying view of yourself from the outside your bubble. How wrong I was.

 

[KWCrazy]

I don't recall anything mentioning a 6 day creation in the commandments either when originally given in Leviticus or when repeated in Deuteronomy.

Perhaps you could cite the verse that supports your claim? Or more likely it is you who is twisting Scripture.

Your lack of Scripture is obvious. The commandments are first given to Moses in Exodus; carved into stone tablets by God on Mt Sinai.
Exodus 20:11
"For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."

Please withdraw your false accusation.

 

[Loudmouth]

When the days of creation are numbered, clarification is further given that the evening and the morning comprised the days AND the six day creation is part of the Ten Commandments, how can that be a metaphor?

The funny part is that you can't understand how your claims are just as ridiculous as a flat Earth or a Geocentric solar system.

 

[Loudmouth]

Your lack of Scripture is obvious. The commandments are first given to Moses in Exodus; carved into stone tablets by God on Mt Sinai.
Exodus 20:11
"For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."

Please withdraw your false accusation.

I will give you some of your own advice:

"So now we have someone posting as a Baptists, proclaiming to be a believer of the Scriptures who is intentionally misrepresenting the Bible in order to make a point the Bible never makes and publicly discredit it. How pathetic."--KWCrazy

 

[BL2KTN]

You will note KWCrazy never responds to me. There's a reason. Oh, and great response, Delphiki! I was greatly impressed.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I don't expect you to believe the Bible. I DO expect that those who claim to believe in the Lord would not deliberately twist and distort the Scriptures.

The rest of us have been saying that for years -- in both the scientific and political forums.

Welcome to the team, KW.

 

[Split Rock]

This could mean either geocentric model OR a flat earth (as the other verses in the same chapter supports the flat earth...see the first post in this topic).

What you just said is more support of the flat earth. If the earth was a sphere, how can the firmament be above the earth? The firmament must "cover" the entire earth.......so this proves that it is a flat earth.

Just as the atmosphere covers the earth. It surrounds the earth, like the covering on a baseball.

 

[Split Rock]

What exactly is a "Bible literalist?"

A Bible literalist, or a "Bible Christian," is a person who claims that parts of scripture that are clearly not literal history (like talking snakes, rib women, tree of the knowledge of good and evil, etc.) are literal history, while other parts (like the four corners of the earth, the lamb of God, etc.) are not.

What part of "Thous shalt not..." is unclear?

Plenty. how about "Thou shall not kill." Does that mean if was sinful for the Hebrews to slaughter Philistines left and right?

When the days of creation are numbered, clarification is further given that the evening and the morning comprised the days AND the six day creation is part of the Ten Commandments, how can that be a metaphor?

Very easy. One can refer to a metaphor as an example.

When Jesus quoted from Genesis and said, "Haven’t you read that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female," is there any question as to the beginning He was referencing?

No, but that does not mean he didn't know he was referencing a metaphor as an example. I'm not saying he knew it was a metaphor, just that he could have and still used a familiar metaphor as an example.

I don't expect you to believe the Bible. I DO expect that those who claim to believe in the Lord would not deliberately twist and distort the Scriptures.

That is reasonable.

Frankly, if you don't believe the word of God as written, then you need to seriously investigate the origin of what you believe. If it comes from man, it's false doctrine.

The bible comes from man, therefore, according to you, it is false doctrine.

The difference is, you put your faith in the observable world around you. I put mine in the Lord who created it.

You put your faith in a naïve, out-dated interpretation of scripture which clearly conflicts with objective reality.

 

[KWCrazy]

A Bible literalist, or a "Bible Christian," is a person who claims that parts of scripture that are clearly not literal history (like talking snakes, rib women, tree of the knowledge of good and evil, etc.) are literal history, while other parts (like the four corners of the earth, the lamb of God, etc.) are not.

The expression "four corners of the earth" is still used today, just as "sunrise" and "sunset" are still used today. Without a clear understanding of the language at the time we often don't get a clear interpretation of the meaning. Many of the things recorded in the Bible are contrary to our current understanding of natural law, but it was intentionally so. it's not so hard to ignite a hill doused with fuel, but to light a hill doused with water is something else. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil was a real thing; not particularly because the tree possessed any magical powers but that in defying God the result would be not only a knowledge of good and evil but the responsibility and consequence of choosing evil.

Jesus was the lamb of God. That means that He was the sacrifice by which the sins of man were forgiven. Of, by the way, also means from. He was the lamb from God. The Bible was written by over 40 authors over thousands of years. Parts of it are poetic, parts prophetic, parts crystal clean and parts shrouded in symbolism. It takes understanding to know which is which. Understanding comes from the Holy Spirit. You lack the Holy Spirit, therefore you will never understand.

how about "Thou shall not kill."

More correctly, thou shalt not murder. The wages of sin are death, and the enemies of God were therefore sentenced to death. The Philistines were not happy-go-lucky neighbors just trying to get along. They wanted to destroy and enslave the Israelites. Kind of like Hamas id doing today. Is it any more wrong to kill a terrorist today than it was then? Killing predators ensures survival. It isn't murder to kill someone sworn to your destruction. It's self defense.

Very easy. One can refer to a metaphor as an example.

The first chapter of Genesis is written to make very clear that it is NOT metaphoric. Genesis is the most referenced book of the Bible; mentioned over 200 times in the New Testament alone.

You put your faith in a naïve, out-dated interpretation of scripture which clearly conflicts with objective reality.

You put YOUR faith in a naive, outdated interpretation of the world which clearly conflicts with the abundant evidence of the presence of the Lord.

 

[morse86]

Just as the atmosphere covers the earth. It surrounds the earth, like the covering on a baseball.

No No No, the bible states God placed the sun, moon and the stars in the firmament above the earth. The firmament therefore cannot surround the earth if it was a sphere.

 

[Loudmouth]

The first chapter of Genesis is written to make very clear that it is NOT metaphoric. Genesis is the most referenced book of the Bible; mentioned over 200 times in the New Testament alone.

Referring to a metaphor multiple times does not mean that the metaphor is to be taken literally. Even in the modern day we refer to mythological heroes. If I said that you were as strong as Superman, would I be trying to insist that Superman was real? How many times do we reference known myths in our daily vernacular? Quite a bit.

 

[CabVet]

Jesus was the lamb of God. That means that He was the sacrifice by which the sins of man were forgiven.

The mere fact that God required a sacrifice to forgive anything kills the entire thing for me.

 

[Split Rock]

The expression "four corners of the earth" is still used today, just as "sunrise" and "sunset" are still used today. Without a clear understanding of the language at the time we often don't get a clear interpretation of the meaning. Many of the things recorded in the Bible are contrary to our current understanding of natural law, but it was intentionally so. it's not so hard to ignite a hill doused with fuel, but to light a hill doused with water is something else. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil was a real thing; not particularly because the tree possessed any magical powers but that in defying God the result would be not only a knowledge of good and evil but the responsibility and consequence of choosing evil.

If these are not examples of metaphors and an allegorical story, then perhaps Dr. Seuss should be taken literally as well:

1. Man made from dirt/ clay
2. Woman made from his rib
3. Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil
4. Tree of Life
5. Talking serpent

You yourself have trouble maintaining the "its a literal history" line... you say the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was really just a regular tree. Why then did Adam and Eve "know they were naked," after eating its fruit?

Jesus was the lamb of God. That means that He was the sacrifice by which the sins of man were forgiven. Of, by the way, also means from. He was the lamb from God. The Bible was written by over 40 authors over thousands of years. Parts of it are poetic, parts prophetic, parts crystal clean and parts shrouded in symbolism. It takes understanding to know which is which. Understanding comes from the Holy Spirit. You lack the Holy Spirit, therefore you will never understand.

Is Jesus a lamb? No. It is an example of the use of metaphor in scripture. That was my point. As far as requiring the Holy Spirit to understand scripture that is very convenient, isn't it? You claim to have the guidance of the Holy Spirit, therefore your interpretation must be the correct one. I guess that's why there are hundreds of denominations of Christianity, huh? The Holy Spirit seems to guide different people in different directions... but yours is the only correct one.... yes?

More correctly, thou shalt not murder. The wages of sin are death, and the enemies of God were therefore sentenced to death. The Philistines were not happy-go-lucky neighbors just trying to get along. They wanted to destroy and enslave the Israelites. Kind of like Hamas id doing today. Is it any more wrong to kill a terrorist today than it was then? Killing predators ensures survival. It isn't murder to kill someone sworn to your destruction. It's self defense.

My point was that "Thou shall not kill," is not the simple directive you implied it was. It requires interpretation, just like the rest of scripture. Man's interpretation.

The first chapter of Genesis is written to make very clear that it is NOT metaphoric. Genesis is the most referenced book of the Bible; mentioned over 200 times in the New Testament alone.

All because GEN is referenced a lot, does not mean it does not include metaphor.

You put YOUR faith in a naive, outdated interpretation of the world which clearly conflicts with the abundant evidence of the presence of the Lord.

I realize you are just parroting me, but this statement makes no sense. It is modern science that has established the correct age of the earth and our common ancestry with all life on earth... how can it be "outdated?" Also, the abundant evidence left by the Lord's work, is what led scientists to these conclusions in the first place. The presence or absence of the Lord is not relevant to understanding the age of the planet, nor if there was a global flood.

 

[Herman Hedning]

No No No, the bible states God placed the sun, moon and the stars in the firmament above the earth. The firmament therefore cannot surround the earth if it was a sphere.

OK, definitely Poe. Don't overdo it, Morse.

 

[bhsmte]

OK, definitely Poe. Don't overdo it, Morse.

I think you are a little late with that warning.