E.T.: The Extra-Terrestrial

[Eastern Drifter]

I listened to Father Seraphim Rose's "Living the Orthodox Worldview". He brings up many good points about the state of secular society and how it impedes on religious life, sometimes in very subtle ways. Even devout Orthodox families can succumb to the trickery of the enemy by letting seemingly innocuous things into their home; Father Seraphim cites certain types of music and movies. One example of a movie to avoid, which at the time of the recording was a recent hit: E.T.: The Extra-Terrestrial. He says E.T. was plainly a "demon" figure basically meant to melt our hearts.

His opinion on U.F.O.'s and aliens can be found his book "Orthodoxy and The Religion of the Future". But that's not so much the point of this thread.

What I'm interested in knowing is where different posters here draw a line when it comes to popular entertainment. Narnia, The Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, Star Wars, Star Trek. Are they for the most part innocent tales, or do you see them as originating from the enemy's plan to de-sensitize us to the demonic? Which mediums and genres do you most guard yourselves and your children from?

 

[ArmyMatt]

What I'm interested in knowing is where different posters here draw a line when it comes to popular entertainment. Narnia, The Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, Star Wars, Star Trek. Are they for the most part innocent tales, or do you see them as originating from the enemy's plan to de-sensitize us to the demonic? Which mediums and genres do you most guard yourselves and your children from?

I see most of that stuff as modern mythology personally. those tales have always been around us. I think the real problem is that people don't discern like they used to. and the devil always sweetens his poison. so anything like that is demonic enough to throw us off, if we use no or little discernment when we watch them

 

[Dorothea]

Yes, I have listened to Fr. Seraphim's talk on that, and I kinda didn't agree with him really on the E.T. thing. I didn't think it was "demon" like. I thought it was harmless when I saw it around 11 or 12 years of age. I've never believed in martians or UFO's, though, so it's never really been a problem for me, I guess.

 

[InnerPhyre]

I like most of what Fr. Seraphim had to say, but I couldn't really bring myself to get on board with him on this specific issue. I just don't get how you can look at E.T. and see a "clearly demonic" figure.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I like most of what Fr. Seraphim had to say, but I couldn't really bring myself to get on board with him on this specific issue. I just don't get how you can look at E.T. and see a "clearly demonic" figure.

it's because ET invokes emotion and love, but it has this bizarre thing at it's core, which he says is what the Antichrist will do. it's sorta along the lines of Fr Hopko saying that the Nike swoosh is this generations mark of the beast, because it stands for carnal victory (make money, be a famous athlete, get power, get good looking men and women to faun over you, etc).

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I admit to not knowing a whole lot about Father S. Rose. I'm a newbie, pure and simple. But the idea that E.T. is a demonic figure, ay yay yay. Seems like utter nonsense to me. Pure nonsense.

If Father Seraphim Rose wants to blast demonic hollywood characters, why didn't he go after Scarface, played by Al Pacino, who sniffed mountains of cocaine in the movie, blew away EVERYBODY who ticked him off in the least, and lauded the idea that violence is the only way to get what you want. As I walk down the street going for my 3-mile walk at night, I see a few of my Mexican neighbors sitting outside talking in the driveway in lawn furniture with gigantic "Scarface" posters in their garages. I see t-shirts of him with horrific slogans.

E.T. was a goofy cuddly alien who got lost on a pitstop to Marin County LOL....he had a symbiotic relationship with Elliot, found a friend, and left. I don't think he's the Beast of Revelation.

In modern film, the "anti-hero" is the in-thing whether it's Mel Gibson blowing everyone's brains out in movies like "Payback" or Fight Club characters or the Batman reboot's Bruce Wayne, etc. Nowdays people like the badguys more than the hero. Why? Because there's not much difference. Honestly, in the Dark Knight flicks (which I happen to hate, incidentally....) there isn't a heckuva lot of difference between Batman and the insane Joker.

I wonder if Father S. Rose had issues with Yoda or the Jawas?

I'm guessing he wouldn't treasure Pulp Fiction as one of his top films.

 

[Knee V]

Fr Seraphim's point is that delusion is subtle, and that in order for us to swallow a delusion, we have to be given it in digestible pieces. From his POV, "aliens" are just demons, and we are being conditioned to accept aliens so that we will accept demons and give ourselves over to them entirely, and cuddly aliens make that even more digestible.

 

[Knee V]

Fr Seraphim had a problem with a great deal of pop culture.

 

[Dorothea]

Fr Seraphim's point is that delusion is subtle, and that in order for us to swallow a delusion, we have to be given it in digestible pieces. From his POV, "aliens" are just demons, and we are being conditioned to accept aliens so that we will accept demons and give ourselves over to them entirely, and cuddly aliens make that even more digestible.

Right. I knew what he meant when he said it. I guess E.T. being a huge movie when I saw it in my adolescence, that I have a kind of sweet memory of it, but I can see what he's saying. I'm not sure that's what Spielberg was going after, though, but I wouldn't know for sure as I don't know the guy.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I think with movie-making, Steven Spielberg has a very good heart. E.T. was more about friendship and hope, trust and love than the alien. I think Father Rose is missing the picture. He might not have even seen it! Often these folks who blast stuff like that never even saw the movie.

I made the point on another thread that, if we don't really know about something or haven't seen it, it's sometimes easy to generalize and be way off. Like the George A. Romero zombie movies "Night of the Living Dead," "Dawn of the Dead," and "Day of the Dead." Those movies are NOT really about zombies. They're about humanity. The zombies are the background white noise, the threat, the HUMANS are the focus. The most dangerous, conflicted, sometimes loving and yet sometimes loathsome people are the humans, not the zombies. Yet back in the day, old-timers would say "these kids watching zombies eating spleens and pancreases, makes me sick! They oughta ban that demonic trash, eh Thelma?"

Was Lord of the Rings about hobbits? No, it's about humanity and faith, tons of Christian themes. Yet I have these nutty parents of evangelical perspectives in my classroom who think Tolkien was a demon for writing "magic and witchcraft!" Yet they let their kids watch and read C.S. Lewis, who had magic and fantasy and monsters in his stuff?

Look at Spielberg's body of work and it includes The Goonies, a hearty, fun, cute embrace of being a kid and going on an adventure. Or Schindler's List, what a powerful, epic movie reminding us that we can never again let that garbage happen on this planet...and yet we do. "Raiders of the Lost Ark," hardly diabolical.

So I think Father S. Rose makes the mistake of jumping to conclusions here.

Boy, if he thought E.T. was evil, what would the man think of the Klingons!?

Ya just gotta love Gowron

 

[Knee V]

Also, as a general rule for those who would read Fr Seraphim, it is always best to read him in his general context and to avoid quote mines. It is easy to pull quotes from him and make him seem like an extremist nut job. He is anything but. He may use aliens or other such things as a means to an end, but his "end" was always a call to sobriety and watchfulness, and, most of all, prayer; purify ourselves so that we can know God and, thus, recognize a counterfeit and not be taken in by it. His belief was that as time goes on it will be increasingly more difficult to see delusion for what it is. Thus, it is all the more important to remain steadfast in prayer, fasting, and alms giving so that we will know the true Christ for who He is. That is what Fr Seraphim was all about (well, is all about).

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Well I know I most definitely DO NOT see him as a nutjob. First of all, though I know he is a bit controversial in Orthodoxy, the holy life he lead and commitment to the Lord is tremendous. I've read a little of him online and was impressed by much of it.

And I do think he is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT that we need to be discerning, cautious, nit-pickers with what we're hearing in media be it movies, music, television, pop culture in general.

I do think that pop culture generally does not have our best interests at heart for sure.

I don't think his motives are impure or absurd. I just think E.T. is quite a stretch and perhaps a really horrible example of demonic subtleties in cinema.

Also, as a general rule for those who would read Fr Seraphim, it is always best to read him in his general context and to avoid quote mines. It is easy to pull quotes from him and make him seem like an extremist nut job. He is anything but. He may use aliens or other such things as a means to an end, but his "end" was always a call to sobriety and watchfulness, and, most of all, prayer; purify ourselves so that we can know God and, thus, recognize a counterfeit and not be taken in by it. His belief was that as time goes on it will be increasingly more difficult to see delusion for what it is. Thus, it is all the more important to remain steadfast in prayer, fasting, and alms giving so that we will know the true Christ for who He is. That is what Fr Seraphim was all about (well, is all about).

 

[jckstraw72]

Also, as a general rule for those who would read Fr Seraphim, it is always best to read him in his general context and to avoid quote mines. It is easy to pull quotes from him and make him seem like an extremist nut job. He is anything but. He may use aliens or other such things as a means to an end, but his "end" was always a call to sobriety and watchfulness, and, most of all, prayer; purify ourselves so that we can know God and, thus, recognize a counterfeit and not be taken in by it. His belief was that as time goes on it will be increasingly more difficult to see delusion for what it is. Thus, it is all the more important to remain steadfast in prayer, fasting, and alms giving so that we will know the true Christ for who He is. That is what Fr Seraphim was all about (well, is all about).

this is a beautiful post and 100% accurate. its also a nice little summary of the thesis I am currently working on about Fr. Seraphim!

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I listened to Father Seraphim Rose's "Living the Orthodox Worldview". He brings up many good points about the state of secular society and how it impedes on religious life, sometimes in very subtle ways. Even devout Orthodox families can succumb to the trickery of the enemy by letting seemingly innocuous things into their home; Father Seraphim cites certain types of music and movies. One example of a movie to avoid, which at the time of the recording was a recent hit: E.T.: The Extra-Terrestrial. He says E.T. was plainly a "demon" figure basically meant to melt our hearts.

His opinion on U.F.O.'s and aliens can be found his book "Orthodoxy and The Religion of the Future". But that's not so much the point of this thread.

What I'm interested in knowing is where different posters here draw a line when it comes to popular entertainment. Narnia, The Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, Star Wars, Star Trek. Are they for the most part innocent tales, or do you see them as originating from the enemy's plan to de-sensitize us to the demonic? Which mediums and genres do you most guard yourselves and your children from?

Although I do believe that it's possible the Lord created alien life in the universe apart from us (more shared . here), some of it similar in dynamic with what was seen in the film "Contact" , I do think that what will always make a difference is the direction that a belief takes you. In the event E.T is being focused on, if it causes someone to be thankful for how much diversity he's capable of, I would not think "demonic"...but if others saw E.T and thought in terms of secular humanistic ideology (i.e. "Alien life proves there is no god" or "All forms of visitation do not need to be suspect of bad origins", etc), I would take pause. I've often had to consider this when it comes to Star Trek and realizing that the series, as much as I grew up with it and love it, is essentially the opposite of CHristianity in the majority of its worldview. When they say that men can evolve to higher levels and make men/creation the center focus, they do what's seen in Transhumanism......and when morality is not absolute, it's simply a reflection of what Gene Roddenberry wanted as a devout atheistic humanist.

I had to pause A LOT when seeing Startrek DeepSpace 9 and seeing what they did by incoporating religion with the Prophets (Wormhole Aliens). They were described as a non-corporeal, non-linear telepathic race who built the wormhole adjoining Bajor some 10000 years ago and worshiped by Bajor. For ccording to Bajoran religious doctrines, the prophets are the spiritual protectors and guides to the Bajoran peoples...and throughout Bajoran history, several unusual objects referred to as "Orbs" have found their way to Bajor, where they are traditionally considered to be messages of wisdom from the prophets to the Bajoran people. When I saw this, I had to really process the ways they were essentially saying spiritual experiences with Deity are essentially humans claiming that higher beings are simply another form of intelligence that want to look out for us. It sets the stage for trying to reinterpret other things such as Christianity/the Bible and assuming that perhaps men deified beings rather than all of creation truly be submitted to the one who is BEYOND understand, without beginning or end.


There were other ways that this dynamic happened in the Startrek universe multiple times...


If one wishes to see what Startrek was about from the perspective of anthropology, there's a level one can accept when it comes to showing how spiritual beings can be misjudged as being the beings who created another species choosing to worship it--and that's the way I tried to take it. However, the other messages of saying all accounts (including the Biblical one) were on the same level is where much caution would be needed. For it can influence people subtly.


And be it with Startrek or other series, one must always be cautious.

 

[Eastern Drifter]

Also, as a general rule for those who would read Fr Seraphim, it is always best to read him in his general context and to avoid quote mines. It is easy to pull quotes from him and make him seem like an extremist nut job. He is anything but. He may use aliens or other such things as a means to an end, but his "end" was always a call to sobriety and watchfulness, and, most of all, prayer; purify ourselves so that we can know God and, thus, recognize a counterfeit and not be taken in by it. His belief was that as time goes on it will be increasingly more difficult to see delusion for what it is. Thus, it is all the more important to remain steadfast in prayer, fasting, and alms giving so that we will know the true Christ for who He is. That is what Fr Seraphim was all about (well, is all about).

Good point. May Father Seraphim accept my plea for forgiveness if I accidentally gave anyone that impression about him. He's one of my role models, in no small part because when he was a young man about my age, he was quite a tormented soul who wrestled with philosophy, religion, spirituality. He had many of the same stormy emotions (and coping mechanisms) that I did when first discovering Orthodoxy.

 

[freezerman2000]

I listened to Father Seraphim Rose's "Living the Orthodox Worldview". He brings up many good points about the state of secular society and how it impedes on religious life, sometimes in very subtle ways. Even devout Orthodox families can succumb to the trickery of the enemy by letting seemingly innocuous things into their home; Father Seraphim cites certain types of music and movies. One example of a movie to avoid, which at the time of the recording was a recent hit: E.T.: The Extra-Terrestrial. He says E.T. was plainly a "demon" figure basically meant to melt our hearts.

His opinion on U.F.O.'s and aliens can be found his book "Orthodoxy and The Religion of the Future". But that's not so much the point of this thread.

What I'm interested in knowing is where different posters here draw a line when it comes to popular entertainment. Narnia, The Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, Star Wars, Star Trek. Are they for the most part innocent tales, or do you see them as originating from the enemy's plan to de-sensitize us to the demonic? Which mediums and genres do you most guard yourselves and your children from?

About the only medium/genres that I shield myself and my loved ones from are gangsta rap and death metal

 

[inconsequential]

I could see a lot of the alien abduction accounts being demonic encounters and I can see how a movie, media in general, could lead us to be more sympathetic to "aliens" and their "advice/wisdom". I'm not saying ET was demonic but I can see how a cleverly disguised demon could lead some astray.

I was a "true believer" in aliens during my occultic years and even had some of the spirits I channelled claim to be the spirits of aliens. I swallowed it too for years before I became a Christian.

 

[ArmyMatt]

even in that talk, Fr Seraphim admits that there are positives that one can glean from ET. and his commentary on ET was more on modern life than any movie specifically. in a world where people worship Tolkien's Valar and Maiar, meditate on the Force, etc having more discernment even when it comes to stuff like ET is not a bad thing.

 

[Dorothea]

No need to defend Fr. Seraphim to me, personally speaking. I read his Life and Works and find him to be a very holy man.

 

[ArmyMatt]

No need to defend Fr. Seraphim to me, personally speaking. I read his Life and Works and find him to be a very holy man.

indeed he is, but I don't think that his warning about ET is that much of a stretch, especially if we look at how the world is spiritually speaking.