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Dump for not being Christian

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SiderealExalt

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Siderealexalt - No it wasn't unreasonable. Your not getting it. Christ comes first than the boyfriends and girlfriends. But you being an athiest wouldn't understand this.

Convert or else is an unjustifiable and selfish request. You don't need to be Christian, or any other religion for that matter to understand that. If she had had any sense of decency in the first place, she would have never been him in that position. If she didn't know she'd do that BEFORE they got together. Then she made a mistake and she can apologize for it.
 
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hlaltimus

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Find out for yourself, (personally and accurately,) what she found out, and then make your decision. Anybody can be wrong, (her or you or me,) but if she is discovered to be right and you wrong, then her "ultimatum" is really a blessing in disguise. Find out.
 
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freeport

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My girlfriend just got back from a Christian retreat in Florida.

First thing she did when she got back was to give me an ultimatum.

Become Christian for her or end the relationship.

I've already made my decision, but what would you guys/gals do?

Would you sacrifice who you are?

Some people, when they have someone from some "group" do them bad, then they become essentially prejudiced against everyone else from that group.

The world spins around full of hate and the cycle continues.

It is a shortcut to judgment: they don't have to treat people as individuals, but instead as conglomerates... and they throw away everyone in great masses.

Even worse it empowers such people who do wrong.

That is what it means when people talk about turning the other cheek so they do not 'become like them' or 'sink to their level'.

Would I, personally, give up my faith to get married to someone? No. Would I be willing to marry someone not of my faith? Yes.

I hate divorce and breakups.

I find it cold hearted and part of the big problem in the world today. Cold hearts. People throw away friends and lovers alike, they have no concern about them. Heaven must be a very lonely place for such people! They have a long list of those they do not like.

For me, judgment works in the opposite way: I let people choose. If they don't like me for who I am, they go away. I leave the door open, but also give them their own choice. I don't mourn it. Life is too precious to waste one's time waiting for everyone else to come along.

They judge themselves.

As for her decision having anything to do with Christianity or Jesus? No, it does not.

Such people do evil in the name of Jesus. And that is very anti-Jesus.

As anti-Jesus as people can get, frankly.
 
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freeport

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Various other corrections:

1. People are not won over to Christ by divorcing and breakups... that is basic understanding of charity...

2. God controls salvation, it is not something that needs to be forced to such an extent that people should do what is plainly wrong to "win them over". That is cult mentality, not Christian mentality.

3. Something like 80% of the population claim to be Christian. For some people they think it is more like less then 1%. Others much higher. I, personally, tend to take people at their word and know that a lot of these more liberal Christians show more love and do more effect just naturally then many of those who teach a Pharisee "Jesus".

I can't say how many wounded hearts I have had to deal with because they were given the wrong idea about God entirely. It is sickening.

It also is a factory for these people that say: Well, Jesus I don't like because he is all about rules and condemnation. Not that they have an excuse for believing some foolish, modern day Pharisees... after all are the gospels so long or difficult to read that they can not simply pick them up and see for themselves that these people are lying?

4. There is zero scriptural basis for breaking off relationships because someone is not a Christian.


This is like someone wearing a mask of you and going in, robbing a bank. You suddenly find yourself wanted for a crime you did not commit.

In fact, not only is there not scriptural basis, did God do this with Israel? No. Israel went and did all sorts of bad things - metaphorically, just as the Church does today - and God sought to bring her back.


5. Did Jesus do this? No. Jesus accepted sinners. He did not go around beating people over the head with a Bible. He spoke the message. Those who believed he pointed out God had given it to them to believe.

She is cutting off the message to him, not the other way around.

Forced conversion? That is what Pharisees did, not Jesus.

They don't trust or believe in God who is omnipotent and omnipresent.

Sadly, this is the way the world is today: no wonder it is said in Isaiah Jesus is "marred beyond any other man, beyond all human appearance".

They have utterly distorted who Jesus is.


These things said, people don't have any excuse to blame all Christians (80% of America claims to be) because of what some do who clearly are not doing what is right.


And lastly, someone saying to an unbeliever, an atheist, "well, you are dumb, because you are an atheist" - effectively - how on earth does that help win people? Personal attacks? Who thinks they have some right to boast of their salvation that they might look down their noses at those who do not have it?

And if anyone thinks salvation is something which has to be earned by works, they are sadly mistaken. Salvation is by grace. It is in the Spirit. Works come naturally from those who have the Spirit. It is those who do not have the Spirit (but think they do) or who are spiritually immature to be acting in such ways.
 
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SiderealExalt

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LOL: "Christ comes first, then the boyfriends and girlfriends".

I wouldn't wanna be in a relationship where I was second to a non-existent demi-god.

For some reason I got this picture in my head after reading this of a girl confronting a guy and saying, "I'm sorry but I'm cheating on you with Jesus."
 
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SiderealExalt

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Various other corrections:

1. People are not won over to Christ by divorcing and breakups... that is basic understanding of charity...

2. God controls salvation, it is not something that needs to be forced to such an extent that people should do what is plainly wrong to "win them over". That is cult mentality, not Christian mentality.

3. Something like 80% of the population claim to be Christian. For some people they think it is more like less then 1%. Others much higher. I, personally, tend to take people at their word and know that a lot of these more liberal Christians show more love and do more effect just naturally then many of those who teach a Pharisee "Jesus".

I can't say how many wounded hearts I have had to deal with because they were given the wrong idea about God entirely. It is sickening.

It also is a factory for these people that say: Well, Jesus I don't like because he is all about rules and condemnation. Not that they have an excuse for believing some foolish, modern day Pharisees... after all are the gospels so long or difficult to read that they can not simply pick them up and see for themselves that these people are lying?

4. There is zero scriptural basis for breaking off relationships because someone is not a Christian.


This is like someone wearing a mask of you and going in, robbing a bank. You suddenly find yourself wanted for a crime you did not commit.

In fact, not only is there not scriptural basis, did God do this with Israel? No. Israel went and did all sorts of bad things - metaphorically, just as the Church does today - and God sought to bring her back.


5. Did Jesus do this? No. Jesus accepted sinners. He did not go around beating people over the head with a Bible. He spoke the message. Those who believed he pointed out God had given it to them to believe.

She is cutting off the message to him, not the other way around.

Forced conversion? That is what Pharisees did, not Jesus.

They don't trust or believe in God who is omnipotent and omnipresent.

Sadly, this is the way the world is today: no wonder it is said in Isaiah Jesus is "marred beyond any other man, beyond all human appearance".

They have utterly distorted who Jesus is.


These things said, people don't have any excuse to blame all Christians (80% of America claims to be) because of what some do who clearly are not doing what is right.


And lastly, someone saying to an unbeliever, an atheist, "well, you are dumb, because you are an atheist" - effectively - how on earth does that help win people? Personal attacks? Who thinks they have some right to boast of their salvation that they might look down their noses at those who do not have it?

And if anyone thinks salvation is something which has to be earned by works, they are sadly mistaken. Salvation is by grace. It is in the Spirit. Works come naturally from those who have the Spirit. It is those who do not have the Spirit (but think they do) or who are spiritually immature to be acting in such ways.

As an atheist who has been an "atheist in a foxhole." and one who lived in the Bible Belt for over a decade. I'm used to it. :(

I have to commend you though for your capacity to understand the complexity of these issues and not reduce them to absurdities. While that might not in any capacity nudge me to be anything but an atheist. It at least gives me confidence when it comes to crazy notions of atheist and theist Americans, and those on both sides of the fence in the rest of the world can have meaningful dialogue.
 
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Van

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Hi freeport, you say there is zero scriptural basis for breaking off a relationship because someone is not a Christian. But 2 Corinthians 6:14 says "Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness." Now you might understand the verse differently, but it would seem there is a biblical basis for believers to establish relationships with other believers to the extent the relationships are volitional.
 
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SiderealExalt

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Hi freeport, you say there is zero scriptural basis for breaking off a relationship because someone is not a Christian. But 2 Corinthians 6:14 says "Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness." Now you might understand the verse differently, but it would seem there is a biblical basis for believers to establish relationships with other believers to the extent the relationships are volitional.

Christians are also nonbelievers.
 
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Steevo509

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I just want to thank everyone for their wonderful answers.

Mr. Cheese - You're entirely correct the method was unreasonable. I told that if she wanted me to try an accept Jesus in my life it shouldn't have been through an ultimatum. A simple, "Would you like to come to a meeting, church, bible group with me? Its really important to me." would have worked to try and start me on the right path.

The problems I have with Christianity are
1. There are other religions that people believe in with just as much love in their hearts
2. Authenticity of the bible
3. Proof of the divinity of Jesus
4. Paul

But to be honest those are all starting to fade because I'm halfway through More than a Carpenter and I just can't object to the arguments made by the author. I've skimmed through many of the atheist books talked about in More than a Carpenter, and all of the compelling arguments I saw are being ripped to shred by the authors use of logic and history. I truly see how the books are meant to entertain and persuade through exaggerations and double standards.

All that remains troubling is Paul. Paul's ego is to big for me. But I suppose that one could be Christian, and follow CHRIST, and ignore some of Paul's teachings. Not all of course, because many do have merit.

With all that being said I am far from making a decision. But all of this has been a real eye opener. My girlfriend loves that I am trying, but I've made the decision to be on a break while I'm learning, and mainly because I want a girlfriend who loves ME for ME.

Thanks again for all your answers

Edit: I forgot to explain number 1. I believe most religions tend to have goal in mind for life on earth, and they all lead to the same understanding and compassion one can obtain during life. Who knows about the after life?
 
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Nilla

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My girlfriend just got back from a Christian retreat in Florida.

First thing she did when she got back was to give me an ultimatum.

Become Christian for her or end the relationship.

I've already made my decision, but what would you guys/gals do?

Would you sacrifice who you are?

It's not an ultimatum I would put out there, if there's no way he would come church with me.. and at least give it a chance. if he after giving it a chance still feel the way he did.. I'd end it.

I would not sacrifice who I am.. and in my case it would mean deny my faith for someone.

And I also agree that she could have handled it much much better.
 
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