Robbie_James_Francis
May all beings have happiness and its causes
And that alcohol and tobacco are far more dangerous than cannabis and ecstasy. So why the distinction based on legality?
Upvote
0
-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
-
CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Drugs!
- Thread starter Open
- Start date
- Status
And that alcohol and tobacco are far more dangerous than cannabis and ecstasy. So why the distinction based on legality?
allhart
Messianic believer
- Feb 24, 2007
- 7,543
- 231
- 54
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Constitution
Swiss Voters Support Government-Authorized Heroin. Reported in fox news!
As said by many, give you an inch you will take it a mile. Drug use in the world is going beyond the mile. Just take it to Switzerland.
As said by many, give you an inch you will take it a mile. Drug use in the world is going beyond the mile. Just take it to Switzerland.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Robbie_James_Francis
May all beings have happiness and its causes
That would probably be your problem there. Sometimes I wish I didn't believe so strongly in the freedom of the press. Sadly, I have to accept that if people want to get their news in infantile and grossly distorted ways they have every right to. If you want a decent, sane report on the story, have a look here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/01/switzerland-drugs-heroin
This is by no means legalisation--addicts receive enough heroin to stop their cravings but not to get high, reducing crime, improving their health and saving lives. Simultaneously, the Swiss rejected a proposal that was about legalisation, actually.
So how is this an example of 'giving an inch and taking a mile'? The Swiss rejected the decriminalisation of cannabis and haven't decriminalised heroin but have allowed people already addicted to heroin to receive minimal quantities of the drug from government-run clinics under medical supervision so they don't die or terrorise people in the streets in gangs.
Upvote
0
BananaSlug
Life is an experiment, experience it!
- Aug 26, 2005
- 2,454
- 106
- 41
- Faith
- Atheist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Libertarian
Yeah, well if I were ever to fall and break my leg I wouldn't want to have to wait for the doctor to see me because he was tending to the fat [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] who destroyed his heart from eating crap...
Look into the history of the war on drugs. Isn't it funny that it started when the Vietnam War went to crap? Does it seem like Nixon was just trying to shift the public's focus to something else?
I think cannabis should be made legal. 90% of the drug offenders in prison are non-violent possesion. Some of the people I smoke with are the most red-blooded, conservative, god-fearing people I know. They work hard to earn their money, love their families and neighbors, and would help you out in a heartbeat. Inhaling any burning substance is bad for you but if you eat it the danger from smoking is gone!
Why is it ok to stuff you face with horrible fattening food but not enjoy a toke every now and then?
Did anybody else watch Explorer on NG last night about cannabis?
Upvote
0
PhilosophicalBluster
Existential Good-for-Nothing (See: Philosopher)
This is an opinion (not mine): Drugs are immoral
This is a fact: Morality =/= Legality
Just because something is forbidden by law should not make it immoral. I mean, think, if some idiot in Congress passes a law that says you have to kill your babies if they have a big nose, does that make it moral to kill a baby that has a big nose? Furthermore, does that make it immoral not to kill a baby with a big nose?
For your sake as well as others, I hope the answer is no.
This is a fact: Morality =/= Legality
Just because something is forbidden by law should not make it immoral. I mean, think, if some idiot in Congress passes a law that says you have to kill your babies if they have a big nose, does that make it moral to kill a baby that has a big nose? Furthermore, does that make it immoral not to kill a baby with a big nose?
For your sake as well as others, I hope the answer is no.
Upvote
0
PantsMcFist
Trying to get his head back under the clouds
I think the Swiss have the right idea. Same thing with prostitution. Don't arrest prostitutes - go after the people availing themselves of the service.
Having said that, I do indulge in a few legal vices - some brandy here, a cigar there on special occasions. If it came down to a black or white all or nothing, I would give them up.
Having said that, I do indulge in a few legal vices - some brandy here, a cigar there on special occasions. If it came down to a black or white all or nothing, I would give them up.
Upvote
0
- Sep 4, 2005
- 29,928
- 17,817
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Atheist
- Marital Status
- Single
- Politics
- US-Others
It's a matter of legality. I don't think that legalizing pot would be a terrible thing, but while it's still illegal, people who use it are still commiting a crime.
Other than medical reasons (which several places have already legalized it for), noboby has provided a good reason why someone should use it...
If the goal is to feel a little loopy and kill some brain cells for the night, booze is legal and readily available and any gas station...why not just do that???
Upvote
0
BananaSlug
Life is an experiment, experience it!
- Aug 26, 2005
- 2,454
- 106
- 41
- Faith
- Atheist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Libertarian
Because booze is a lot worse for you! A good reason? How about the fact that I am a responsible adult and no one can tell me what I can/cannot put into my body as long as I'm not directly hurting anybody else? How about the money we waste on arresting non-violent offenders? How about the fact that most cannabis users are responsible, tax-paying, hard-working Americans who love their families and neighbors? How about the fact that perfectly legal intoxicants (datura, belladona, nutmeg, etc) are extremely poisonous and potentially deadly?
Those places (states) that have legalized cannabis are still being prosecuted by the federal government because the feds see no medical use whatsoever in cannabis. Not only that, but our farmers cannot grow hemp for fiber, food, etc.
Those places (states) that have legalized cannabis are still being prosecuted by the federal government because the feds see no medical use whatsoever in cannabis. Not only that, but our farmers cannot grow hemp for fiber, food, etc.
Upvote
0
trunks2k
Contributor
Because for many people it induces an enjoyable feeling. And for most of those people, they can use it responsibly & in moderation and it doesn't cause any significant negative side effect.
Being high is not the same as being drunk. Most people not only feel a difference between the two, they also act differently. A given person may prefer being high over being drunk. Frankly, I'd rather deal with a high person than a drunk person. Alcohol tends to make people very aggressive.
Upvote
0
Pommer
CoPacEtiC SkEpTic
- Sep 13, 2008
- 23,642
- 14,529
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Deist
- Marital Status
- In Relationship
- Politics
- US-Democrat
But marijuana doesn't kill brain cells...
When they began laboratory testing on "what is in marijuana?" back in the thirties and 40's they identified groups of chemical they called "cannabinoids" since they were from the cannibis plant.
When researchers began doing brain chemistry studies they found BOTH cannabinoid and cannabinoid receptors in the brain!
Smoking marijuana simply puts more of the chemicals (which are already there) that the body processes out.
It is intoxication, but on the same sort of level that breathing pure oxygen is, (though, admittedly, O2 doesn't have the same level of psychotropic activity that dope does). Anything in quantity is "dangerous" see here for info on too much oxygen.
FULL DISCLOSURE: I do not imbibe alcohol nor marijuana.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
H
HollandScotts
Guest
Well, as a druggie myself, you couldn't control yourself. That isn't my problem, and I should have to suffer for it.
There's always going to be demand for it. It's prohibition that ruins lives. Ya'll who support keeping it illegal support the drug cartels. You support having an unregulated black market that spurs crimes. I just wanna smoke a fattie, you want to ruin people lives for smoking a plant. You want to keep it illegal, keep the black market unregulated, which is exactly what the cartels want. You and them, have the same goal. Keep drugs illegal.
No, I'm trying to get high. You're trying to deny me medical care because of what I like to do in my own time. You're want to hurt me for my hobby. I just want to be left alone. That makes you the bad guy, that makes you the aggressor.
Well, unless he's buying his weed from a local grower, that money goes back to the cartels that bring the stuff up from Mexico, and they use that money to fund their operations, which include all sorts of nasty things. Things they wouldn't be able to fund if drugs were legal.
Hey, you think you can hook me up with your old contact, because I'm having trouble finding someone reliable to get the stuff from.
Alcohol makes you do stupid stuff, I know. Pot may be illegal, but I've gotten into a lot more trouble with a few drinks than I even have with a doobie.
Upvote
0
tcampen
Veteran
Alcohol is more dangerous than cannabis, generally. BUT tobacco is not nearly as dangerous as cannabis and XTC.
XTC, (or MDMA) is a methamphetamine-based hallucinagin. It is quite dangerous. It can be fatal in its own right, or directly contribute to "accidental" death (like falling off a ledge or a car crash). It also isn't that great for your body.
Upvote
0
H
HollandScotts
Guest
Pot is more dangerous than tobacco? You've got to be nuts. How many people die from tobacco related cancer every year? No one dies from pot.
Upvote
0
BananaSlug
Life is an experiment, experience it!
- Aug 26, 2005
- 2,454
- 106
- 41
- Faith
- Atheist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Libertarian
I strongly disagree. Brew up a tea of five cigarettes and drink it. You will die. Nicotine is technically a nerve poison.
From Wikipedia:
The pharmacological and behavioral characteristics that determine tobacco addiction are similar to those that determine addiction to drugs such as heroin and cocaine.
The LD50 of nicotine is 50 mg/kg for rats and 3 mg/kg for mice. 4060 mg (0.5-1.0 mg/kg) can be a lethal dosage for adult humans.[25][26] This designates nicotine as an extremely deadly poison. It is more toxic than many other alkaloids such as cocaine, which has an LD50 of 95.1 mg/kg when administered to mice. Spilling a sufficient concentration of nicotine onto the skin can result in poisoning or even death since Nicotine readily passes into the bloodstream from dermal contact.[27]
There has never been a documented human fatality from marijuana.[9] Information about THC's toxicity is derived from animal studies. The toxicity depends on the route of administration and the laboratory animal. Absorption is limited by serum lipids, which can become saturated with THC, mitigating toxicity.[10] According to the Merck Index, 12th edition, THC has a LD50 (dose killing half of the research subjects) value of 1270 mg/kg (male rats) and 730 mg/kg (female rats) administered orally dissolved in sesame oil.[11] The LD50 value for rats by inhalation of THC is 42 mg/kg of body weight.[11] One estimate of Cannabis's LD50 for humans indicates that about 1500 pounds of marijuana would have to be smoked within 15 minutes.[12] This estimate is supported by studies which indicate that the effective dose of THC is at least 1000 times lower than the estimated lethal dose (a "safety ratio" of 1000:1). This is much higher than alcohol (safety ratio of 10), cocaine (15), or heroin (6).[13]
AnimalAdministrationLD50 [mg/kg]ratoral666 [10]rat (male)oral1270 [11]rat (female)oral730 [11]ratinhalativ42 [11]ratintraperitoneal373 [10]ratintravenous29 [10]mouseintravenous42 [10]mouseoral482 [10]mouseintraperitoneal168 [10]monkey (LDLo)intravenous128 [10]dogoral525 [10]
Upvote
0
tcampen
Veteran
Ahh yes, tobacco tea. And how many people actually do that? How many people get prosecuted for driving under the influence of tobacco? Happens all the time with pot - I've seen many cases of it. Danger of a drug is not limited to unheard of methods of consumption.
But I'm glad so see you don't disagree with me regarding MDMA.
Upvote
0
I think its unfair to judge tobacco on the bodily harm it does to the user, in comparison to what is done under the influence of marijuana. Tobacco and second-hand smoke from cigarettes are more dangerous than smoking marijuana and second-hand smoke from a joint. If you choose to drive while under the influence of marijuana yes, you are more likely to get arrested because.. well, its not illegal to drive under the influence of tobacco. It is also illegal to drive drunk, so in that case you would be better off arguing that driving under the influence is bad, in general.
Totally agree on the X tho, I am still shy of that one..
Upvote
0
I had this in one of the classes that I taught. The article suggested legalizing all drugs. I thought, "All drugs? Heroin?"
But this was the idea:
Legalize marijuana, and people could grow it in their garden. A pound of weed, that usually goes for about $200, would then go for about $5. With the money taken out of it, so it the crime. The drug isn't physically addictive, and really no more harmful than cigarettes, but cigarettes lead to cancer, and are proven to be physically addictive.
The then said that hard drugs, like heroin, would be used with a prescription, the same way that codeine is available. The difference would be that by regulating it, the supplier would want the person to go off it, rather than stay addicted, and be a money generator. That way, addicts could be helped to kick their habit.
It was an interesting proposal.
I've always been rather surprised that alcohol and cigarettes are legal when marijuana is not, but the former has thousands of deaths related to use.
It seems to be an issue of a shift in perception that, for whatever reason, is a threat to those in power. I think that natural hallucinogens can actually be quite spiritual, and mushrooms, peyote, and ayahuasca are used for that purpose.
However, because man seems to have become so removed from nature and spirituality, I think that such tools are simply thought of as drugs, something that destroys, deceives, and can cause nothing but harm.
But this was the idea:
Legalize marijuana, and people could grow it in their garden. A pound of weed, that usually goes for about $200, would then go for about $5. With the money taken out of it, so it the crime. The drug isn't physically addictive, and really no more harmful than cigarettes, but cigarettes lead to cancer, and are proven to be physically addictive.
The then said that hard drugs, like heroin, would be used with a prescription, the same way that codeine is available. The difference would be that by regulating it, the supplier would want the person to go off it, rather than stay addicted, and be a money generator. That way, addicts could be helped to kick their habit.
It was an interesting proposal.
I've always been rather surprised that alcohol and cigarettes are legal when marijuana is not, but the former has thousands of deaths related to use.
It seems to be an issue of a shift in perception that, for whatever reason, is a threat to those in power. I think that natural hallucinogens can actually be quite spiritual, and mushrooms, peyote, and ayahuasca are used for that purpose.
However, because man seems to have become so removed from nature and spirituality, I think that such tools are simply thought of as drugs, something that destroys, deceives, and can cause nothing but harm.
Upvote
0
H
HollandScotts
Guest
As someone who does it, not that big a deal. I'ld even argue that stoned drivers are better than non-stoned drivers.
Which doesn't kill nearly as many people as tobacco, and is a lot more fun.
Upvote
0
XTC, maybe, but cannabis I would have to disagree.
People usually smoke many tobacco cigs, while people only smoke a joint or two. Some people smoke as much as 2 packs a day. That is far more smoke.
It also has far more tar.
Also, people get cancer from cigarette smoke, whereas, you don't from cannabis. In fact, people being treated for cancer sometimes smoke cannabis to help them with nausea and appetite.
Upvote
0
- Status
Similar threads
