Drugs and Spirituality

[zerodrone]

Here is my problem, as easily as I can state it:

I have long held the Ghandi quote to my heart: "I love your Jesus. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Jesus."

I like the message of Jesus (summarized by a Biblical scholar whose name I can't recall as: "If you don't love, you're dead. If you do love, they'll kill you.")

I love what Jesus said in the Gospel of Thomas, though I know most Christians don't consider that to be a "proper" picture of His teachings.

I love the beginning of the Book of Acts, where the faithful are exalted to "have all things common" and distribute wealth "to each according to his need" - this sounds like Communism to me, which is fine, because I like sharing.

However, I have found that in contemplating all these things and so much more when it comes to my spiritual awakening, that drugs - marijuana and psylocibin mushrooms - greatly enhance my understanding and appreciation.

I have never heard anyone quote a Biblical verse which prohibits the use of such things - I especially don't know how eating a mushroom that God created can be wrong! - so I suppose my question is, is there room in Christianity for moderate use of those, just as many Christians moderately use alcohol, tobacco and caffeine?

Thanks in advance!

 

[aiki]

Here is my problem, as easily as I can state it:

I have long held the Ghandi quote to my heart: "I love your Jesus. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Jesus."

This doesn't sound like a question to me...

Fortunately, Ghandi didn't know all Christians, so his statement isn't universally correct. If Ghandhi really did love Jesus, he'd love his children too.

I like the message of Jesus (summarized by a Biblical scholar whose name I can't recall as: "If you don't love, you're dead. If you do love, they'll kill you.")

This is a caricature of the message of Jesus. His message was ultimately about himself. Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life."

I love what Jesus said in the Gospel of Thomas, though I know most Christians don't consider that to be a "proper" picture of His teachings.

Perhaps you should state why most Christians don't consider the Gospel of Thomas as giving a "proper picture of Jesus' teachings." I assume you think you know better than most Christians in this matter. Why is that?

I love the beginning of the Book of Acts, where the faithful are exalted to "have all things common" and distribute wealth "to each according to his need" - this sounds like Communism to me, which is fine, because I like sharing.

Christianity's ideas of sharing long preceded Communism.

However, I have found that in contemplating all these things and so much more when it comes to my spiritual awakening, that drugs - marijuana and psylocibin mushrooms - greatly enhance my understanding and appreciation.

How's that exactly? From what you've described so far it sounds like your "spiritual awakening" is fundamentally confused...

I have never heard anyone quote a Biblical verse which prohibits the use of such things - I especially don't know how eating a mushroom that God created can be wrong! - so I suppose my question is, is there room in Christianity for moderate use of those, just as many Christians moderately use alcohol, tobacco and caffeine?

No, there isn't. In Galatians 5:20 Paul the apostle condemns "witchcraft" (among other things) a word which is translated from the Greek word "pharmakeia" from which we get our modern day words like pharmacy and pharmaceuticals. In Paul's day pharmaceuticals, or drugs, were an integral part of the practice of witchcraft. They were used typically as a means of opening up the user to demonic influence. Drugs today still have this effect. The Word of God commands Christians to be in full control of our minds and our various physical impulses, which is made unnecessarily difficult by the use of marijuana, shrooms, or alcohol.

Peace to you.

 

[zerodrone]

Fortunately, Ghandi didn't know all Christians, so his statement isn't universally correct. If Ghandhi really did love Jesus, he'd love his children too.

Ghandi wasn't speaking of love or hate, he was speaking of what he perceived as a disparity between what Jesus taught and what some (or perhaps many) Christians actually practice.

This is a caricature of the message of Jesus. His message was ultimately about himself. Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life."

I do not believe that Jesus only had one message; even a casual reading of the Gospels reveals that he intended to be heard on a number of subjects.

Perhaps you should state why most Christians don't consider the Gospel of Thomas as giving a "proper picture of Jesus' teachings." I assume you think you know better than most Christians in this matter. Why is that?

I would not presume to say that. The Gospel of Thomas was not chosen for inclusion in the finalized New Testament; for most Christians I have spoken with, that fact alone invalidates it, regardless of whether it contains sayings of Jesus or not.

Christianity's ideas of sharing long preceded Communism.

I didn't say otherwise; but I have yet to meet a Christian or attend a Christian church which truly "had all things common" and gave "to each according to his need".

How's that exactly? From what you've described so far it sounds like your "spiritual awakening" is fundamentally confused...

All understanding must naturally proceed from a point of confusion to one of clarity. I feel I am moving in that direction. Over the decades of my life, I have gone from an Atheist to an Agnostic to someone who feels a real spiritual connection to something pure, loving and good. If I have come to change my ways from lying, cheating and stealing in my youth to honoring honesty, empathy, love and giving, I think that is a positive change. Said change began only after I began to use marijuana and psylocibin; if the impulse to do good and help my fellow man is the influence of a "demon" as you say, then I think perhaps demons have been sorely underrated!

The Word of God commands Christians to be in full control of our minds and our various physical impulses, which is made unnecessarily difficult by the use of marijuana, shrooms, or alcohol.

But Christians have used alcohol throughout all time. I understand that some branches of Christianity do not use alcohol, tobacco or caffeine but I believe the majority allow their use in moderation, do they not?

 

[Aibrean]

Lutherans love alcohol We don't drink to be drunk (i.e. nothing to the point that affects our minds). We love our coffee as well. I don't think smoking is good because there is no "little bit" of smoking that does any good. In Timothy 5:23= "No longer drink water exclusively, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments."

 

[aiki]

Ghandi wasn't speaking of love or hate, he was speaking of what he perceived as a disparity between what Jesus taught and what some (or perhaps many) Christians actually practice.

I didn't say that Ghandi was speaking about love or hate. He did, in the quotation you gave, express a dislike of Christians but a love for Jesus. It was to this that my remarks were directed. Jesus preached a standard of conduct to which not even Ghandi could attain. In this respect Ghandi is no better than the Christians he condemns. Moreover, if Ghandi did truly love Jesus, he'd have a very different attitude toward Jesus' followers.

I do not believe that Jesus only had one message; even a casual reading of the Gospels reveals that he intended to be heard on a number of subjects.

While Jesus may have made comment on a variety of subjects, his prime interest was in identifying himself to the World as its Savior from sin and becoming its Saviour through a sacrificial death on a cross and resurrection from the dead three days later. This was his number one purpose in coming to earth. Everything he said and taught was in one way or another ultimately related to this purpose.

I didn't say otherwise; but I have yet to meet a Christian or attend a Christian church which truly "had all things common" and gave "to each according to his need".

And your point is?

If I have come to change my ways from lying, cheating and stealing in my youth to honoring honesty, empathy, love and giving, I think that is a positive change. Said change began only after I began to use marijuana and psylocibin; if the impulse to do good and help my fellow man is the influence of a "demon" as you say, then I think perhaps demons have been sorely underrated!

But I didn't say that, did I? Drugs may make a person more susceptible to demonic control (ancient occult practitioners depended on it), but they don't necessarily do this.

How, may I ask, are you so sure the drugs you've been taking have anything to do with your move toward a more honest, empathetic and loving nature? Is it possible these changes are merely coincidental? And how are you to know if the changes are not merely the drugs talking rather than a genuine change that you yourself have effected? I mean, if you forsake the drugs will you return to the old you? If so, can you really say that you've changed?

But Christians have used alcohol throughout all time. I understand that some branches of Christianity do not use alcohol, tobacco or caffeine but I believe the majority allow their use in moderation, do they not?

There haven't been Christians except in the last 2000 years. They haven't been drinking alcohol "throughout all time." The Bible, in its overall attitude toward drinking alcohol, is negative. You'll find far more instances in Scripture where alcohol consumption contributed to wickedness than to anything good and far more warnings against alcohol in the Bible than encouragement to imbibe.

As for caffeine and tobacco, well, I don't believe its appropriate to class them with the drugs you mentioned and alcohol. While coffee may serve as a mild stimulant, it doesn't suspend good judgment or natural inhibitions. This is true also for tobacco. It may destroy your health, but no matter how many cigarettes you smoke you won't find yourself affected in the way too much alcohol or the drugs you've mentioned will affect you.

Peace to you.

 

[tapero]

Here is my problem, as easily as I can state it:

I have long held the Ghandi quote to my heart: "I love your Jesus. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Jesus."

I like the message of Jesus (summarized by a Biblical scholar whose name I can't recall as: "If you don't love, you're dead. If you do love, they'll kill you.")

I love what Jesus said in the Gospel of Thomas, though I know most Christians don't consider that to be a "proper" picture of His teachings.

I love the beginning of the Book of Acts, where the faithful are exalted to "have all things common" and distribute wealth "to each according to his need" - this sounds like Communism to me, which is fine, because I like sharing.

However, I have found that in contemplating all these things and so much more when it comes to my spiritual awakening, that drugs - marijuana and psylocibin mushrooms - greatly enhance my understanding and appreciation.

I have never heard anyone quote a Biblical verse which prohibits the use of such things - I especially don't know how eating a mushroom that God created can be wrong! - so I suppose my question is, is there room in Christianity for moderate use of those, just as many Christians moderately use alcohol, tobacco and caffeine?

Thanks in advance!

Hi,

As Christians we are told to obey authorities. Hence if it's illegal, there's one reason in the bible not to do illegal drugs.

Another poster posted another one.

Here's a very important one.

Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. 9Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you know that your brothers throughout the world are undergoing the same kind of sufferings.

and same passage different version:

Be sober, be vigilant; because[c] your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. 9 Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world. 10

The above is to Christians and shows how much we must be sober, aware, vigilant, and self-controlled and as you see what we are commanded as the devil or satan seeks to devour us.

Now as you are not a Christian there is something else in play going on as you seek to use drugs to heighten thoughts and experiences of spiritual things.

satan masquerades as an angel of light.

That means that what may seem right and good to you, even sober or straight, may well be satan decieving you. He appears as light, so would look like a good thing, whatever it is, whether something in your mind or whatever it is, may well be of satan.

So while you are stoned, and not sober, not vigilant, alert, nor self-controlled, and pondering on spiritual things, satan may well be and most likely is decieving you, as is what satan does.

He is a liar, deciever and murderer.

He is going to do his best to keep you from Christ, even when sober, so just imagine when not.

Christians struggles are not against flesh and blood, but against spiritual wickedness in high places. (highly paraphrased)

So, if we as sober and self controlled, alert, etc, are struggling against demonic forces in this world, even tho we can not see or know what is occuring, Christians have the truth, who is Christ who we have faith in, trust in, and who we lean on, and the Holy Spirit indwelling us, guiding us into truth, and also the bible which gives us armor or things to do to help us through this world, plus many other things in the bible which help us.

I did acid one time and saw a man's soul, or so I thought or who knows what, and saw that the man i was with whole being depended on God.

No clue what that did for me. Guy later tried to kill me, tried to break my neck, tried to snap it. I was not a Christian at that time, but anyway, fairly useless revelation to me about the person, and had no eternal value.

ETA: I almost never recovered from that acid and was told I may well never by professional, but I did. Writing this so any reading knows how very dangerous acid is.

take care,
tapero

 

[Jayangel81]

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[Solidlyhere]

The OP said: "I have never heard anyone quote a Biblical verse which prohibits the use of such things."
DUH.
The same goes for Cocaine, Heroin and PCP.

The OP asks: "is there room in Christianity for moderate use of those?"
Each person decides what is right for her.
God gave each of us a brain.
So, if a Heroin addict thinks that her "habit" is OK, then it's OK.

Most Child Molesters go to Church.
Most of them are pretty-darn-sure that molesting kids is a good thing to do
This is their opinion, and nothing I can say will change it.

The same is True for the OP.
If you think it's Great, then just "Trip the light fantasic."

 

[zerodrone]

As Christians we are told to obey authorities

But Jesus Himself disobeyed authorities.

Would you say that Christians who were in the Germany army during WW2 should have obeyed authorities when told to put Jews in gas chambers?

 

[tapero]

But Jesus Himself disobeyed authorities.

Would you say that Christians who were in the Germany army during WW2 should have obeyed authorities when told to put Jews in gas chambers?

Hi, thanks for writing back.

What makes you think Jesus disobeyed authorities? I'm not familiar with that.

I don't know much of what Christians did as pertains to the Holocaust, and can not speak to it.

But if I were told to do something which goes against what God teaches, no I would not. God never tells us to do wrong, no matter who tells us to do it.

If someone is more fearful for their life or the lives of their children or whatever may be the reason, and will do the wrong and are a Christian it is their choice to do so. Each person's walk is between them and God.

If my mother tells me when I'm 15 years old to jump off a building 60 stories high, and I think the truth which God says to do; obey my parents... do you think I'd jump? Or do you rather think that I would know that something is wrong, and I am being told to do something wrong.

God does not tell us to do wrong.

Might I do wrong to save anothers life? Yes, I may. Don't know until it occurs. I've never come up against such a thing, but have read of such. I imagine many have done so.

 

[zerodrone]

What makes you think Jesus disobeyed authorities?

He disobeyed the Roman government when he was told to stop preaching.

He went against the established Jewish church in Matthew 21:12 -

And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,

I think that qualifies as defying authority, don't you?

I'm confused as to what your argument is. First you said that it is wrong to make moderate use of marijuana or psylocibin because it is illegal. Then you say that you should only obey authorities if you believe that God wants you to. What if I believe that God does not have a problem with moderate use of marijuana or psylocibin?

What about places where marijuana use is legal? Is it okay to use it in those places, but not okay to use it in others? How is that logically consistent?

 

[tapero]

He disobeyed the Roman government when he was told to stop preaching.

He went against the established Jewish church in Matthew 21:12 -



I think that qualifies as defying authority, don't you?

I'm confused as to what your argument is. First you said that it is wrong to make moderate use of marijuana or psylocibin because it is illegal. Then you say that you should only obey authorities if you believe that God wants you to. What if I believe that God does not have a problem with moderate use of marijuana or psylocibin?

What about places where marijuana use is legal? Is it okay to use it in those places, but not okay to use it in others? How is that logically consistent?

Hi,

On the scripture you gave me as to Jesus clearing out the temple. What makes you think that he is disobeying authorities? It's about vendors in the temple, who he shoos out of there. What authorities do you think he was disobeying in what he did? Im not familiar with such.

Who's temple do you think it is as well, just as a thought.

Please give the verse where Jesus was told to stop preaching. Please give scripture references so I can reply faster without you holding up.

you wrote:

First you said that it is wrong to make moderate use of marijuana or psylocibin because it is illegal. Then you say that you should only obey authorities if you believe that God wants you to.

I didn't say only obey authorites if believe God wants me to.

I gave you an example about the obey parents which God also gives. And that's a very clear answer as to what I wrote of the jump off the building.

Nothing more is needed, but you didn't, I take it understand that is a command from God, to obey parents. no different than obey authorities.

If I am told to do something by an authority, I may choose not to as there may be another teaching from God to me which shows me i should not do as commanded due to another scripture or teaching.

We are not without common sense, and common sense is contained in the bible.

you wrote:

Then you say that you should only obey authorities if you believe that God wants you to. What if I believe that God does not have a problem with moderate use of marijuana or psylocibin

As I did not say wants me to. and spoken to that above, I just included it in this quote of yours for context.

bible says to be sober and vigilent.

If you choose to do those drugs, that is your choice.

you wrote:

What about places where marijuana use is legal? Is it okay to use it in those places, but not okay to use it in others? How is that logically consistent

If you want to use pot it is your choice.

What you do is between you and God; if you believe in God (are a Christian, believer in Christ) which I do not know as this is a question by non christian forum.

i've smoked pot in the past.. i know what pot does. if it relieves medically then it does. I couldn't do it as i know what it does to me. I know it's not good to smoke pot.. so whether it's legal or not, I won't smoke it..one because i know what it does to a person or did to me, and two I want to always be straight in my minds and with drugs one is not straight.

but using your example..is sex slavery okay to do, as is legal in some places? is heroin okay to do as is legal in some places. is man boy sex okay to do as is legal in some places. and on and on and on.

Are you struggling with something?

This forum is called struggles by non Christians

As in this thread you dont appear to be struggling with what you wrote. It seems to me you are you wish to do drugs and you don't seem to be struggling over it. Perhaps you are but is not what I'm reading.

If you are seeking the ethics and morality on a matter, there are forums just on that where you would get a lot of feedback. I'll post those links below.

As this is a forum of struggles by non Christians, I am assuming you may not be a Christian only because of the forum.

I don't know of course, but basing on the assumption of the forum name, I just want you to know if you are not a Christian that God does not look at what non Christians do as to whether they are doing right or wrong as pertains to salvation.

Im not saying that it doesn't matter if one does good things and bad things. It is always good to do good things of course (not speaking on drugs, just in general I mean.) But it has no value as to with God as pertains to salvation.

As before we are in Christ, we are living in unforgiven sin, that is all our sin, not one sin, or some sin, all our sin.

Jesus died for our sin and was resurrected. When we have faith/trust in/believe in Christ, we then belong to Christ, and are forgiven all sin, and much more occurs when we come to Christ.

Again, only writing the above due to the forum name; is normally posted in by non Christians.

You may well be a Christian.. But speaking the above if you are a non Christian to say that what a non Christian does or does not do has nothing to do with salvation in Christ.

As Christians there are many different beliefs each person holds to. It is again, between them and God as to what they do or don't do.

Here are the links to the two different ethics and morality forums you might be interested in if would like more replies on the topic.

Not that you won't get some here, but just in case you are interested.

http://christianforums.com/f40-ethics-morality.html

The above is majority populated non Christian area..so in other words, more non Christians will reply.

http://christianforums.com/f459-christian-philosophy-ethics.html

the above is majority populated Christian forum..so in this forum more replies will be from Christians.

take care,
tapero

 

[zerodrone]

It sounds like you're saying that as long as I believe in at least some interpretation of the teachings of Jesus, then I can achieve salvation, regardless of whether some Christians would call me "damned" for choosing to occasionally smoke pot?

That sounds reasonable to me.

 

[tapero]

It sounds like you're saying that as long as I believe in at least some interpretation of the teachings of Jesus, then I can achieve salvation, regardless of whether some Christians would call me "damned" for choosing to occasionally smoke pot?

That sounds reasonable to me.

Hi,

I must not be saying things clearly as you are interpreting other than what I am saying.

I never spoke of achieving salvation, as such is not possible. Salvation is not something which comes through achieving.

I never spoke of anything to do with Christians damning you.

Never to worry what a Christian may call you.

Learn of Jesus. He is the way, the truth and the life.

take care,
tapero

 

[zerodrone]

But I do agree with the teachings of Jesus; I thought I made that clear in my first post.

What I don't agree with is the teachings of some Christians.

 

[tapero]

But I do agree with the teachings of Jesus; I thought I made that clear in my first post.

What I don't agree with is the teachings of some Christians.

Ah, thanks, I'm glad your post here led me to reread your first post.

I take it perhaps what you mean by not agreeing with teachings of some Christians, you are not referring to teachings of some Christians about Jesus?

But you rather meant, don't agree what some Christians say? Such as things which may or may not pertain to the bible?

I just woke up so can't think straight yet.

Im not sure where to go from here, but I'll ask write on something you wrote above.

Are you seeking to be a new creation in Christ? another word, born again? Two terms describing two things which occurs the second one is in Christ. Other things occur but just those two for the moment.

This may be another subject;

As there are misconceptions and preconceptions of Christians, as to what a Christian is like, etc.

including Christians who have same notions.

I refer to your quote.. the Ghandi quote...

there are many people who think that a Christian is to be other than real person they are, while others can be real people, a Christian can not, as they are 'supposed' to be a certain way..

the above is a topic of interest to me.. and the Ghandi quote reminds me of it and is why I bring it up.

ah, so above is a very confusing post of mine, I just can't think yet, but can you tell me more if any, of questions you may be asking about. I don't know if what I wrote above is any of them. Just started them and forgot even why was writing them.

The Ghandi quote I believe starts with, I like your Jesus...

Is it the same with you, that you like Jesus, but have no further interest than that? (the things you like may include things Jesus taught?)

And of above do you know or have heard what it is to be a Christian? or not what it is, but how to be a Christian?

as say, let's say someone rather than Jesus is teaching thusly, I'll call him Ralph.

Ralph says, do good to your neighbor, and never do other than treat him as you yourself desire to be treated.

Ralph says, feed the poor, help people, serve people, love people, on and on, and you see what I'm saying.

So one can follow Ralphs teachings and Ralphs teachings are rather decent if not excellent any one would say; that is one who cares for others.

So Ralph is likable.

But Ralph is not God.

Jesus is God, and before being in Christ, we are separated from God, in unforgiven sin (often also unawares), slaves to satan (unawares), slaves to sin (unawares) ..

Sorry to use the Ralph analogy, never have done a thing like that before, but still not awake yet to think clearly..

are you interested in being in Christ, or interested in the good things which Jesus teaches and gave us to do.

and if interested in being known by God, reconciled to God, forgiven sin, and the rest which occurs once in Christ; are you thinking, well, if I were, would mean x, y, z?

And x, y, z doesn't fit for me?

If so, those might be preconceptions and misconceptions but of a different kind that what I speak of above, as well as what some Christians may have said as concerns such.

as I know I'm not being very clear. and dont' mean to be at all.

But there are essentials in Christ... faith in Christ to become a Christian or to be known by God, reconciled, and the much more which occurs once in Christ.

and I didn't mean to, but left off my last letter to you an end to the last sentence I wrote..

I should have added at the end of the learn of Jesus sentence...that then..the rest will fall in place.

Not life without struggles, (far from it) but the truths of Christ and the bible. These fall in place once we are in Christ, though sooner for some, later for others, and some, maybe little.. though each one of us, all our lives such is occuring as we grow in Christ.

But I am speaking about a new creation in Christ.

You see, prior to coming to Jesus, I knew nothing of God, never thought of God, was never taught of God, never thought of anythign as pertains to God, religion, etc. I came to Christ at 33 years old.

For me, once I came to Christ, which in my case is a fairly short story, and all happened in a very short period of time, but what occurred was I was immediately born again, a new creation in Christ, the old had passed the new had come (these are from the bible).

now, I did not know such as had no clue to what was occuring, and hadn't yet read the bible.

And on answering two questions a pastor asked, I left the building and walked outside and creation appeared to me as I had never seen it. I also said at that time while I was looking at the trees, leaves, clouds and sky, said that somehow I have always known this truth, (Jesus) but had suppressed it.

then went on, not given anything by the pastor more than what he asked, the two questions which led me to Christ, and began to read the bible, and no longer desired things of my past and much more occurred, in a very short time after I was born again.

that's just me, each person is different. Not one person has the same experience, but is what occurred with me.

and once we are in Christ is when our walk starts with God.

I am not sure if this is what you are thinking about, coming to Jesus, or if you want to know for another reason about drugs and spirituality as pertains to the bible.

which I don't understand if so, but may be do to a misunderstanding on something you may have or I may have.

and maybe you've said it clearly and I missed it.

Anyway, I'll stop here for now.

take care,
tapero

 

[Digit]

Hi zerodrone,

Here is my problem, as easily as I can state it:

I have long held the Ghandi quote to my heart: "I love your Jesus. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Jesus."

I like the message of Jesus (summarized by a Biblical scholar whose name I can't recall as: "If you don't love, you're dead. If you do love, they'll kill you.")

I love what Jesus said in the Gospel of Thomas, though I know most Christians don't consider that to be a "proper" picture of His teachings.

I love the beginning of the Book of Acts, where the faithful are exalted to "have all things common" and distribute wealth "to each according to his need" - this sounds like Communism to me, which is fine, because I like sharing.

However, I have found that in contemplating all these things and so much more when it comes to my spiritual awakening, that drugs - marijuana and psylocibin mushrooms - greatly enhance my understanding and appreciation.

I have never heard anyone quote a Biblical verse which prohibits the use of such things - I especially don't know how eating a mushroom that God created can be wrong! - so I suppose my question is, is there room in Christianity for moderate use of those, just as many Christians moderately use alcohol, tobacco and caffeine?

Thanks in advance!

I saw your post a while back but since I don't know much about the Christian laws pertaining to drugs, I let it well alone incase I damage my case through ignorance. So, today I went and read a little and pondered on this.

I think this will help you greatly.

Essentially in my own words there are a few things to consider. One, is that we should keep the law of the land we live in. In this case if you live outside of the Netherlands for example, drug use is illegal and you should uphold that. If you are within a country (such as the Netherlands) where it is permissable, then you are freed from that law.

In regards to your question about whether we should uphold a law that goes against God's commandents, the answer is no.

Another thing Christians are held accountable for, is to live lives that do not cause others to stumble or fall. First up, recall that sin is not a staic concept. For example, eating. Eating in moderation and for pleasure, is not sinful. Eating to excess, gorging and over-eating, is sinful. It is gluttony and greed. This can be applied to many things in life, where people believe something is inherently sinful, just because of the act itself. This is not true. Many misunderstand the commandment, "Thou shalt do no murder." It says murder, not killing. If we could not kill, how would we feed ourselves? So, we need to be very careful in what we read, and how we interpret that into our lives.

It took me a while to realise that my software, music and video piracy was in fact theft, and it was illegal and condemned by God. I remember that day way, I inherited about 200GBs of free space on my PC. So, lets look at a 'drug', in a loose sense, alcohol.

Alcohol can be addictive, and if a Christian was to drink to excess with friends, and one of them developed a problem due to this, I feel the Christian would be held accountable, due to his encouragement of what was a perfectly acceptable habit and recreational activity (drinking with friends) that has now been turned into a yoke for his friend. The Christian may have a greater resistance to alcoholic drinks, than his friend did, and just as sin binds us to this world, his friend will find himself bound by alcoholism.

So it is important to remember as a Christian we must be a light to others, we should be helping people to become better, not worse. Bear this in mind in all areas of your life, and be mindful of others.

Additionally we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Just as it is said we are not to ally this portion of God with prostitutes, so should we not seek to do it harm. We are to strive for healthyness and well-being.
Our bodies are not our own, they belong to God, and if we believe this and are Christians we should seek to care and nuture them.

Lastly, the Bible talks of two kinds of sin. There are the laws of God, which give us very strict lines of what we can and cannot do in His view, and then there is personal sin. We are all unique, and as unique as we are, so will we find different things ungodly to us, or sinful. We may feel personally convincted over something, that isn't mentioned in the Bible, like masturbation for instance. This can be very difficult for us, because as Christians we build much of our lives on faith, and when we find no mention of something that we feel is personally sinful for us, just as we feel personally convicted of God, we start to wonder if something is wrong. Personal sin, (the Bible says) is sinful for you, and it is very clear we are not to advocate it as sinful for others. The reason for this, is as above in the drinking example. If a man finds drinking personally sinful, because he has a problem with it, it leads to temptation, greed and gluttony for him, then he should abstain. He should not however, try to force you to abstain.

I say this, because it's often overlooked, you may find people posting here with a history of drug-addiction, and whilst for them they feel personally convicted it is sinful, the Bible makes no mention of it (just as it lacks mention of masturbation). It would be foolish to think that God somehow listed all the sins, and sort of forgot about some others. How would that happen, to a being that's perfect? It makes no sense.

So in these areas, use your best judgement, read, and pray (if you so choose) about it and see what is revealed to you.

As much as you feel drug use enables you to be more spiritual, I would say that it is not required and that you can be as spiritual without it. It just takes time and discipline, as with anything that can form an addiction.

I hope that helped.

In Chris,
Digit

P.S. I too like that quote, it always brings me back to earth when I let pride carry me away. Being a Christian should be an admission of failure, not one of success.

 

[Digit]

Hi zerodrone,

It sounds like you're saying that as long as I believe in at least some interpretation of the teachings of Jesus, then I can achieve salvation, regardless of whether some Christians would call me "damned" for choosing to occasionally smoke pot?

That sounds reasonable to me.

The armour of God is a wonderful thing.

Luke 6:37
"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven."

Matthew 7:1
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged."

John 8:7
"So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

I highly suggest you seek on your own, or with friends who understand this.

Cheers,
Digit

 

[heron]

In any religion, you will find people who compete with others to appear more spiritual. That is the ugly part of human nature, and that is what Ghandi speaks of. I see it in mass-Christianity today, but I try to be patient with it because it works itself out... God keeps after us to clean out all that garbage.

As for drugs, I would think the core goal would be to improve and preserve your life in any way you can. That is what God's rules are usually about -- leading toward self-respect and taking care of others.

Look at friends who have taken substances too far: what has happened to their lives?

You seem to be approaching this as a light user, and I agree that there is a fine line between a natural substance being good and bad. Most medicines were formulated from the powerful properties in plants' composition. Some plants have been declared too dangerous to use freely.

It's true that many spiritual journeys have been taken under the influence. But is that really what you want, a journey that can be tainted or swayed by distortions in cognitive thinking, lack of oxygen, reactions to toxins? It would be hard to know what to trust.... whether to put credence in what you'd seen. It seems sort of a cruel joke on yourself, to invite apparitions that might have no meaning.

I'm not trying to insult your stance, just to turn the conversation away from RIGHT:WRONG and back to common sense and God's concern for your whole health. He has seen centuries of people coming home to their kids drunk, losing jobs and reputation, losing their minds, replacing posessions and comfort with the cost of addictions. It's a sad thing to watch others go through.

 

[zerodrone]

Look at friends who have taken substances too far: what has happened to their lives?

That's a good point, but out of the hundreds of people I have known in my life who have casually used marijuana, it has never ruined their life or caused noticable damage.

I have had many friends' lives badly damaged by alcohol, however.

I admit that's probably a big part of why I'm so conflicted on this - in my experience, and according to most research I have read, marijuana is one of the least harmful drugs, even less harmful than tobacco. That's why I find it so strange that some people react so negatively towards it.