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Sojourner<><

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I think anyone who struggles with addiction doesn't really have a substance problem, but a life problem. Some thing deep down inside is broken and can only be fixed by God. The substance abuse is a symptom of it and it probably just makes things worse, so anyone who has this problem should steer clear of any substances that fuel the fire so to speak. I don't think that addiction can be truly overcome unless the Lord gives the victory.
 
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MarkEvan

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The reason that the corinthians didn`t eat meat was due to the fact that the OT told them not to, because it had been sacrificed to idols. It was unclean for them to eat that meat. Paul was concerned not because it might lead weaker believers into idolatry, but because they still believed that it was wrong for them to eat meat sacrificed to idols as it was in the OT, and because of that belief if they ate meat because they saw somone who was a mature believer doing it....and had not reconciled it wihin their own conciense.....then they would have violated their conscience, and so sinned.


I am not talking about the nonsensicle arguments! And finally if you were doing something which was causing a weaker believer to stumble, would you continue to do it?

"Woe to him by whom the stumbling block comes"

Mark

i will not be able to reply till monday so my appologies at the wait you will have if you reply
 
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MrsJoy

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have you looked at statistics on car accidents lately and how they affects peoples lives?
I don't know why any Christian would want to drive one!!
 
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MrsJoy

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ive studied that jesus did not drink strong drink because his blood is PURE and could not be mixed with alcohol because the alchol would take part in cleanign our sins..and the lord wouldnt have that, so he drank grape juice.
rediculous man-created ideas
 
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MrsJoy

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yes, this is true!
 
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MrsJoy

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You all seem to wanna be making excuses for drinking........
let's see...excuse something that is not a sin.
excuse something that MEN have made rules for NOT GOD.
LEGALISM is what you are excusing.
we are not excusing squat.
for it does not need to be excused.
legalism on the other hand...
.I guess toying with something that could control you is OK......
shall we all stop driving cars, walking across the street, eating fast food, eating out at all (for the food might not be cared for properly and we could get food poisioning and this is toying with the unknown and our very lives!). and on and on it goes.
you say......"all things in moderation"............problem is...how do YOU know when enough is enough, since it's a scientific fact that after only a couple drinks your judgement/thinking is impaired?
everyone knows what moderation is for them.
to say that you can't tell because it impares you is both ignorant and naive. not to mention judgemental.
because some Christians I know have gotten into car accidents, I don't think that Christians should drive cars anymore. a FEW gave a bad testimony through driving, so, NO Christian should drive.
 
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MrsJoy

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too bad scripture does not back you up on this.
legalism and man-made ideas do not equal the Word of God.
and it is clearly shown that wine "to gladden the heart" is seen as a BLESSING.
if , to you that is the purpose then for you it would indeed be a sin.
but to superinpose that into a universal idea is not only unwise but unbiblical.
 
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MrsJoy

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But...........I thought we are the temples of the Holy Spirit and that we are supposed to be holy because God is holy. Where's the holiness in alcohol (whether it's done in moderation or not)???
the verse about being a temple of the holy spirit is one of the most abused passages in scripture. abused by Christians no less.
This passage is speaking of, and only of SEXUAL IMMORALITY!!
NOTHING ELSE.

and even if you were to follow that line of thinking, we are not talking about drunkeness in which such a thing would actually affect your temple.
as for the holiness: nowhere is drinking shown to be less than holy.
that is a MAN MADE idea.
very similar to what the Pharissees did actually
 
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MrsJoy

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totally BALONGA in it's purest form!!!

2"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
5"Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them 'Rabbi.'

13"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
15"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.

23"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel. 25"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
27"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. 28In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.


How appropriate for those who are not only ADDING MAN MADE RULES to God's Word, but also twisting Scripture!
For example...um, let's think about this logically.
why would they bring out the better GRAPE JUICE out first and then the worst at the end normally??
because the guests would have drunk so much grape juice that they wouldn't notice?
Come now!

and, as has been pointed out already, only the rich could afford to keep grape juice.
look into it.

and the Lord's supper-they were indeed drinking, are you ready for this ? WINE!!
they were partaking in the PASSOVER.
again, look into this!
according to the laws and regulations that govern this they were drinking WINE.
and , by the way, in the begining of the article he says that scripture contridicts itself!!
God changed His mind??
Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?
or , you have to claim such things in order to back up this legalism??
 
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MrsJoy

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I'm sorry......it sounds like you enjoy your sin and are trying to make excuses for it.....if that's legalism, Jim, then I'm proud to be a legalist.....I'm done arguing this.....wasn't my intention, so I'll let it go.
SIN?
you have not even shown this to be SIN!!!!
GOD DOES NOT CALL THIS SIN.
adding to God's Word.
Deuteronomy 4:2
Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you.
Deuteronomy 12:32
See that you do all I command you; do not add to it or take away from it.

Proverbs 30:6
Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.
 
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MrsJoy

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how does drinking make one unholy?
this is not a scriptural idea.
becoming drunk would cross that line, but not drinking.
Why would wine be shown as such a blessing and used as a picture of bounty and joy if it was a picture of unholiness?
too many times we believe what we have been taught instead of digging in ourselves.
i do not know if this is the case for you (although it sounds like it might be).
it was for me for quite a few years.
but when i actually started to dig in and study it for myself I realized that the idea of drinking being a sin was not found in scripture.
 
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MrsJoy

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I knew someone would come back at me with something like that.
That's why I tried to carefully word my statement.

If alcohol is so healthy, why don't we serve it to our children?
driving is not unhealthy, yet we do not allow children to do so.
why? because they do not have the motor skills and other decesion making skills yet. they are not yet ready.

children for one thing do not have the body mass to handle such things.
or the wisdom that goes along with such a responsibility.

but, come to think of it, in many countries where the law is different than here, many, under the direction of their parents DO drink wine.

which comes to the main reason:
we are instructed by God to obey the authorities set over us, and that includes laws on this.
 
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MrsJoy

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That doesn't make it right.

No one will ever convince me alcohol is healthy when there are so many bad side effects, besides the damage it does to the organs like the liver and kidneys.
abuse of ANYTHING leads to destruction.
that does not mean we should avoid anything that if abused can hurt us.
 
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MrsJoy

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wrong again.
it tells us that gluttony is sin.
OOPS!
 
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MrsJoy

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MrsJoy

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It's sad to partake of something that the Bible speaks of as a blessing, something which Jesus partook also of, something which He created for others to partake of as well ... sure, you're right ...
yes, it always brings me to tears when i am relaxing with my dh having a little something, or when we are enjoying a glass of wine during a family get together full of love.
 
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MrsJoy

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yes, i do agree with you on this.
we are told to think of others more highly than ourselves!
how is doing something against another's consciences putting them above ourselves!
i'de say just the opposite is true!
it's not about our rights!
1 Corinthians 10:24
Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.
 
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