drinkin'

[brightlights]

i wanted to post this as a reply in the beer thread (christians only>life stages>men's corner) but im not 18 :

guys im sorry to raise this question in a simple conversation thread, but i'm kindof troubled. i always thought that it was immoral to drink. i know jesus drank wine, but the alcohol was from the biological breakdown in the grapes. please forgive me for bringing this up, i just have to know. how do you guys justify it? what is the difference between drinking a little beer and smoking a little pot? i can only see how alcohol could distance a person from god, not bring one closer or remain in a stasis. please help me to understand your views.

SORRY SORRY,
billy

i mean what is your input on this issue? i feel that drinking in this day and age is immoral. how do we justify jesus drinking wine?

 

[RVincent]

There is a good way to use wine, and a bad way.

(Deu 14:26) And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

(Eccl 9:7) Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.

(1 Tim 5:23) Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.
​

Notice, it said a little. A jug is not a little. When is it wrong?

(Prov 20:1) Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

(Eph 5:18) And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
​

I am an alcoholic with two years sobriety, so I cannot drink any "wine".

See also, Wine.

 

[Oblio]

Also c.f the Sunset Psalm:

And wine to make glad the heart of man ...

 

[fanatiquefou]

RVincent has it right with his quotes: alcohol can be seen as a gift from God to be enjoyed in moderation, but one that we should also be careful of. There's nothing wrong with choosing not to drink at all - if you feel that for you it would be too tempting and would tend to lead you away from God in some way, then you should perhaps consider it sinful for yourself. However, it is fully possible to enjoy alcohol - again, in moderation, as I said earlier. The Bible says several times that constant drunkenness is not a good thing, but it never tells us not to consume wine at all. And far from just being an unavoidable biological breakdown of the grapes, much of the wine Jesus would have drunk would likely have been deliberately meant to be wine. It's not like people back then didn't understand fermentation at all - people have been experimenting with alcoholic beverages since the dawn of human culture. It's obvious from Jesus' first miracle at the wedding that this wine carried an alcoholic kick, and that Jesus saw nothing wrong with making more of it at the END of a party, after much wine had already been consumed.

Another thing to consider is the difference between cultures. A lot of American Christianity in the 19th century jumped on the so-called temperance bandwagon, and began to see alcohol as entirely an evil. This attitude is still present in most of conservative evangelical Christianity. However, in many other Christian cultures, alcohol is definitely enjoyed - just talk to some of our members from different countries and cultures for an example. I spent four months in Oxford, England last year, and by far my favorite memories of that time come from evenings spent in pubs enjoying good conversation over a pint or two. Alcohol can be a good addition to a fun time with friends. Just because it has the potential to be mis-used doesn't mean we should have to abandon it altogether!

 

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings,

I agree with RVincent. I was a very heavy drinker until about '75 which the Lord took it completely out of my life. I tried wine and a little beer after that "deliverance" and it made me nauscious(sp?) I don't even like to be around people who have the aroma of alcohol on them. If the Lord set you free, you shall be free indeed. But as has been pointed out, "do all things in moderation, let nothing (of this creation) rule over you."

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

 

[SPALATIN]

i wanted to post this as a reply in the beer thread (christians only>life stages>men's corner) but im not 18 :

guys im sorry to raise this question in a simple conversation thread, but i'm kindof troubled. i always thought that it was immoral to drink. i know jesus drank wine, but the alcohol was from the biological breakdown in the grapes. please forgive me for bringing this up, i just have to know. how do you guys justify it? what is the difference between drinking a little beer and smoking a little pot? i can only see how alcohol could distance a person from god, not bring one closer or remain in a stasis. please help me to understand your views.

SORRY SORRY,
billy

i mean what is your input on this issue? i feel that drinking in this day and age is immoral. how do we justify jesus drinking wine?

First of all to indicate anything as "immoral" is legalistic. Wine was not necessarily the "biological breakdown of grapes" If you recall the Wedding at Cana where Jesus performed his first public miracle he turned water into wine and not just any wine it was the best wine possible.

Usually at weddings they served the best wine first and then watered it down as the night wore on so that more people would drink more wine. In this case the wine that had been bought by the Bride's parents was good wine but it ran out "as the story goes." Jesus is then asked by his mother to get involved. Jesus told his mother that it was not time yet, but she harped on him some more and he finally relented and told the servants to fill the wine jars with water. As they poured the water into the jars it became wine and when the wine was served the guests were surprised that it was even better than what they had been drinking before.

Now there is another parallel here but I am not going to focus on that now. The wine was of course from Christ, but the wine before that was man-made and had been purposely fermented for a big occasion. If we look at the New testament, Paul spoke of those who drink to excess and debauchery, but I don't think he felt an occasional glass of wine to be wrong.

If you look at drinking as being totally immoral than you are imposing the law on people that just doesn't exist.

Now you ask the difference between drinking a beer and smoking a little pot. If you are under-age and are caught drinkingthat is breaking a civil-secular law that has been imposed by civil authorities and Jesus did tell us to render to governing authority as he has put them in place regardless of their faith. If you are caught smoking pot that is plainly illegal for all ages. So we must submit to civil authority in these matters.

I don't believe that Christ gave us any instruction on just having a few drinks (if we are old enought) and neither did his Apostles. Paul only spoke about certain foods being a stumbling block to a weak brother, but otherwise was told to eat. I think it is safe to say that you could replace food with drink in this case.

 

[newname]

alcohol is a parable,

just as physical alcohol deludes one and distorts their vision, so does the spiritual alcohol!

the "wine of fornication" deceives the church and they can not "see" truth.

just as physical drunkeness destroys the body, spiritual drunkenss destroys the Body of Christ, the church.

Jesus says, "be sober" and again "the evil servant begins to eat and drink with the drunken"

a little wine and alcohol will not cause you to "fall", but...alot of alcohol will destroy.

just as the church is under a little delusion in the beginning, a little drunk, until "that which is complete" comes, they are 'safe", but...if they become "addicted" to the deciet, they then become spiritual alcoholics.

Just as God says, if you love unrighteousness, then you will be given over to the delusion, just as a "drunk" chooses alcohol above everything else, the church that loves unrighteousness will choose "wine of fornication" above truth and will be destroyed by it.

speaking truth by the Holy Spirit,
newname

 

[Baseballfan]

this is a tough subject..I grew up being told alchohol is evil..despised it in every way and then I somehow became a drinker and chose to ignore what i was taught. I have not drank in 4 years and my life is only better for it. Moderation never worked for me.


I truly do not even know if wine in the Bible is wine as we know it(i know this is debatable) but I am back to where I was when I was a Kid, i dont like alchohol and dont drink and I pray i wont again.

 

[toonces]

another thing that you may have to think of regarding alcohol is as you are more intoxicated, you tend to loose your inhibitions. which could easily lead to dishonoring the Lord. moderation seems to be the message regarding alcohol in the bible. not abstinance. even in proverbs it suggests that we give strong drink to those who are mourning so that they can forget their troubles for a little while. proverbs 31: 6-7.

"how do we justify Jesus drinking wine?"

do we really have to justify anything Jesus did?

 

[brightlights]

another thing that you may have to think of regarding alcohol is as you are more intoxicated, you tend to loose your inhibitions. which could easily lead to dishonoring the Lord. moderation seems to be the message regarding alcohol in the bible. not abstinance. even in proverbs it suggests that we give strong drink to those who are mourning so that they can forget their troubles for a little while. proverbs 31: 6-7.

"how do we justify Jesus drinking wine?"

do we really have to justify anything Jesus did?

you make a good point, we do not have to justify jesus in anyway. but don't you think that proverbs is perhaps a bit outdated in saying that? i mean in the OT people did not have the complete link to god as they do in jesus. i think nowadays we should rely solely on god to carry our worries and troubles and not on something so earthly as alcohol.

 

[SPALATIN]

this is a tough subject..I grew up being told alchohol is evil..despised it in every way and then I somehow became a drinker and chose to ignore what i was taught. I have not drank in 4 years and my life is only better for it. Moderation never worked for me.


I truly do not even know if wine in the Bible is wine as we know it(i know this is debatable) but I am back to where I was when I was a Kid, i dont like alchohol and dont drink and I pray i wont again.

I am glad that you indicated it never worked for you. Most people I know that are either alcoholics or borderline alcoholics have never been able to moderate their drinking. In many respects it has to do with the culture that they are living in. The United States because of it's minimum drinking age and tough driving laws makes it difficult to be a moderate social drinker.

However, that being said, not everyone has a drinking problem and there are still many who are able to have one or two beers or a glass of wine or even one stiff drink without losing control.

If you are one who has control issues with alcohol than by all means abstain and I give you credit for being able to do so. If you have the issue and are not able to control that part of your life I beg you to seek help. Just don't say that God commanded it because he didn't. there is no commandment that states we must not drink alcohol because it might lead to other sins.

 

[katherine2001]

If it's a sin to drink, then Jesus sinned by making wine at the wedding at Cana, and by having the apostles drink it at the Last Supper. Drinking alcohol is not a sin--getting drunk is a sin. The two are not the same thing.

Personally, I don't drink. The only time I take any wine is in Communion and taking a sip of wine (which has water in it) afterwards to wash it down. That's because there is a history of alcoholism in my family (I'm the only one who hasn't had a drinking problem). However, if someone can drink without becoming an alcoholic, there is nothing wrong with it.

 

[GreenPartyVoter]

All things in moderation. And if you can't do it in moderation and are hurting yourself and others, then don't do it at all.

 

[wannagohome]

i wanted to post this as a reply in the beer thread (christians only>life stages>men's corner) but im not 18 :

guys im sorry to raise this question in a simple conversation thread, but i'm kindof troubled. i always thought that it was immoral to drink. i know jesus drank wine, but the alcohol was from the biological breakdown in the grapes. please forgive me for bringing this up, i just have to know. how do you guys justify it? what is the difference between drinking a little beer and smoking a little pot? i can only see how alcohol could distance a person from god, not bring one closer or remain in a stasis. please help me to understand your views.

SORRY SORRY,
billy

i mean what is your input on this issue? i feel that drinking in this day and age is immoral. how do we justify jesus drinking wine?

To drink wine/beer is legal after a certain age. Smoking pot is ONLY legal if it prescribed to you. I think also alcohol should be used in moderation, and if it becomes your crutch, it's a problem. Jen

 

[findingneo]

Hi there ,

Just a thought to add to the rest. One of the things that I always consider is whether my mind remains clear. If having even one or two drinks or smoking some pot would mean I was thinking unclearly or acting in ways that were unusual for me (although my normal behaviour might be misconstrued as being unusual anyway!!! ) then that would be a good indication that what I was doing was not helpful. Hope you're having a good day .

 

[findingneo]

Sorry, I thought I should add that I do not think that drinking is immoral but that getting drunk would certainly be unhelpful.

 

[katherine2001]

Brightlights, if it is immoral to drink, then how can Jesus not have been immoral, since He drank wine? If it is a sin to drink, then Jesus sinned by drinking and made others sin by making it and/or giving it to others. It is a sin to get drunk--that's quite different than all drinking being a sin. Gluttony is a sin too, but that doesn't mean that all eating of food is a sin. Doing anything to excess can be a sin. I believe that all instances where the word "wine" is used in the scriptures should be taken literally and not be assumed to really mean "grape juice".

Like I said, I personally don't drink, especially since there is a history of alcholism in my family (and I don't really like the taste of it either). However, I don't believe that it is a sin for other people to do it. I have to admit that being able to drink was hard for me to get used to when I coverted to Eastern Orthodox 3-1/2 years ago (I was Baptist before), but they don't push you to drink. If you got drunk, you would certainly have to confess it at confession and if it is a real problem, the priest would try to get you to get help and make you accountable for doing something about it.

 

[livin4thebigman]

brightlights, first off i want to commend you for searching for truth. I grew up with the same type beliefs that you are exhibiting and later on I began to question what I had been taught. I had been taught to be judgemental (I'm not saying you are this way, but I was) and view people on the basis of their actions. I was wrong in this and we should instead be humble and attempt to help those around us.

My view of drinking is what everyone else has said. Majority of sins are due to lack of moderation. Ex. drinking a beer - getting drunk, eating food - gluttony, seeing a beautiful woman - lusting after her, getting upset at someone - murder.
All these things are ok, however when taken to their extreme, it becomes a sin. (I am not saying promoting that we should be upset at everyone, however its not bad to feel that emotion)

I want to encourage you to continue searching for truth, keeping in mind that what you have been taught may have been inaccurate.

 

[SPALATIN]

To drink wine/beer is legal after a certain age. Smoking pot is ONLY legal if it prescribed to you. I think also alcohol should be used in moderation, and if it becomes your crutch, it's a problem. Jen

If I'm not mistaken they have recently decided that there is no medicinal value in Cannabis Hemp to warrant a Doctor prescribing it for an illness. So it is still illegal

 

[Polycarp1]

God created all things, and called them good. But humans have a tendency to misuse and abuse His creation.

Both alcoholic beverages and marijuana are no exceptions to that rule. There is a proper use and an improper use.

Wine in moderation, for those who do not suffer addiction, relieves stress and calms worry, and at times of celebration "makes the heart glad." Again in moderation, it has minor health benefits.

It has to be remembered that before Mr. Welch's experiments, there was no way to preserve unfermented grape juice -- it 'went bad' quite quickly, even when kept in an ice house or something of the sort. The custom, therefore, was to allow it to ferment to a fairly low proof, one that would kill off the bacteria and such that would make it spoil, and then drink it, diluted with some water, as the beverage with meals. Even children would drink this weak wine, properly diluted.

Scripture is careful to point out, however, that it is easy to get into a state of mind where getting drunk is enjoyable -- and that this is, to indulge in understatement, unwise.

Marijuana is not directly addressed in Scripture, though the substance may have been known, and some scholars think that there are tangential references to it. But likewise it has specific medicinal properties, related to reducing blood pressure, alleviating severe chronic pain, and in particular in treating glaucoma, the blindness-causing disease where fluid pressure in the eyes increases far beyond the normal level, and for which marijuana seems to be virtually a natural specific in alleviating that problem.

Likewise, it is probably useful in moderation for stress management and the like, though owing to modern opposition to it (for good reason considering some of the abuses), this is difficult to prove under normal circumstances.

Bottom line: almost everything that God created can be used to man's benefit or abused to his sorrow. And these two substances are part and parcel of His creation, and fall under that general rule.