Drain the Swamp

[rjs330]

Trusting Trump will drain the swamp is like trusting the Creature from the Black lagoon. So now he has a chance to dismantle "the deep state" phantom. 2-4 years of no one else to blame. Let's see how we do.

Yes let's. The swamp is going to fight him tooth and nail. They already are.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

And that's the problem. Bureaucrats who set policy and regulations and rules for the reat us. Unelected officials who can tell us how we should operate in our daily lives. Unbeholden to us who pay them. Many with an ideological bent.

And there are those who operate in direct opposition to those with conservative views and values while supporting and excusing and offering assistance to those with liberal ideas.

This is not an issue because there are mechanisms to address it. Every four or eight years, a new President appoints new agency heads who should identify and resolve problems within their agencies. However, Presidents often prioritize loyalty over capability. For instance, many believe Pete Buttigieg is unqualified for his current role, just as Kash Patel is considered unsuitable to lead the FBI.

In terms of conservative or liberal perspectives within each agency, America is ideological evenly divided, so government employees reflect this split. There are both conservative and liberal bureaucrats in the federal government. Complaints about a "deep state" working against the administration have primarily come from President Trump, while previous presidents did not express such concerns. This suggests that the issue may be specific to President Trump’s administration or his understanding of how government works rather than a systemic problem.

 

[DaisyDay]

And that's the problem. Bureaucrats who set policy and regulations and rules for the reat us. Unelected officials who can tell us how we should operate in our daily lives. Unbeholden to us who pay them. Many with an ideological bent.

Generally, the people who actually set policy, regulations and rules are the political appointees, not the career civil servants. The career civil servants have institutional knowledge of what needs to get done - day to day, month to month and year to year - and how to do it.

And there are those who operate in direct opposition to those with conservative views and values while supporting and excusing and offering assistance to those with liberal ideas.

Insubordination can be a fireable offense.

 

[rjs330]

Generally, the people who actually set policy, regulations and rules are the political appointees, not the career civil servants.

I don't think that's true. The civil servants are involved in that. Probably not the secretaries, but the higher ups who aren't appointees. They are involved in it. Sometimes actively opposing the appointees.

Insubordination can be a fireable offense.

It should be, but they are unionized and it's rare they are. Becauae by the time it goes through the process the appointees are gone. Hopefully the new appointees will immediately clean house and get people in who will not actively oppose them.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

Generally, the people who actually set policy, regulations and rules are the political appointees, not the career civil servants. The career civil servants have institutional knowledge of what needs to get done - day to day, month to month and year to year - and how to do it.


Insubordination can be a fireable offense.

Many Americans who criticize the federal government are unclear about its functioning. They often equate it solely with Congress and assume that government employees sit in luxurious offices, doing little while earning more than they deserve. In reality, most federal employees are overqualified and could earn more in the private sector.

Many Americans have historically distrusted federal employees, reflecting a general skepticism of centralized government. However, President Trump and his supporters intensified this sentiment, labeling federal employees who disagreed with him as anti-American members of the "deep state" who needed to be removed.

 

[Belk]

I don't think that's true. The civil servants are involved in that. Probably not the secretaries, but the higher ups who aren't appointees. They are involved in it. Sometimes actively opposing the appointees.

It should be, but they are unionized and it's rare they are. Becauae by the time it goes through the process the appointees are gone. Hopefully the new appointees will immediately clean house and get people in who will not actively oppose them.

Can you give us some examples of where you see this happening? I don't work at the federal level but I have never seen this in the local municipality. It is always the elected official setting the direction and us civil servants carrying out their directions. Now that is not to say there is not conflict on occasion, there certainly is. But there is no one I have ever seen actively opposing the direction set by elected representatives.

 

[DaisyDay]

I don't think that's true. The civil servants are involved in that. Probably not the secretaries, but the higher ups who aren't appointees. They are involved in it. Sometimes actively opposing the appointees.

Not in my experience. I worked in civil service for nearly 30 years, municipal not federal. The heads would come and go as the parties in power switched.

It should be, but they are unionized and it's rare they are. Becauae by the time it goes through the process the appointees are gone. Hopefully the new appointees will immediately clean house and get people in who will not actively oppose them.

The new appointees can only clean out higher level, non protected civil servants, upper management.

Trump wants to be able to get rid of anyone insufficiently loyal to him. This is the old Spoils System which is highly corrupt.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

I don't think that's true. The civil servants are involved in that. Probably not the secretaries, but the higher ups who aren't appointees. They are involved in it. Sometimes actively opposing the appointees.

It should be, but they are unionized and it's rare they are. Becauae by the time it goes through the process the appointees are gone. Hopefully the new appointees will immediately clean house and get people in who will not actively oppose them.

You are correct; political appointees often rely on the suggestions of career federal employees to craft policies. Similarly, Congress seeks the advice of career federal employees when formulating policies for various agencies. These career employees possess extensive knowledge of the agencies and understand what is best for both the agencies and the country.

Previous administrations and Presidents had no issues with career federal employees. In fact, many agency heads were former career federal employees. Only the Trump administration has encountered problems with career federal employees, suggesting the issue may lie with the Trump administration rather than the employees.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

Can you give us some examples of where you see this happening? I don't work at the federal level but I have never seen this in the local municipality. It is always the elected official setting the direction and use civil servants carrying out their directions. Now that is not to say there is not conflict on occasion, there certainly is. But there is no one I have ever seen actively opposing the direction set by elected representatives.

He cannot provide an example. President Trump and his supporters are upset with the DOJ and FBI for investigating him before the 2016 election and after the 2020 election when he was a private citizen.

 

[rjs330]

The new appointees can only clean out higher level, non protected civil servants, upper management.

Trump wants to be able to get rid of anyone insufficiently loyal to him. This is the old Spoils System which is highly corrupt.

I know rhats what you and others on rhe left think, but that's not going to happen. Neither Trump nor the rest of us care about the little guys. So you can put that to rest. All this hand wringing over "but they are civil servants! How dare you disparage these dear people who are only working for us out of a love for our country!" (Play the national anthem)
We don't care about the secretaries and the clerks, the janitors or the mail room people.

It's the upper management that needs to go. I think I've already explained this. Although a few middle managers could go to and that wouldn't hurt my feelings if they were involved in ideological manipulations of law and policy .

 

[ViaCrucis]

It's weird how many mosquitos and snapping turtles there are wherever Trump goes.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[DaisyDay]

I know rhats what you and others on rhe left think, but that's not going to happen. Neither Trump nor the rest of us care about the little guys. So you can put that to rest. All this hand wringing over "but they are civil servants! How dare you disparage these dear people who are only working for us out of a love for our country!" (Play the national anthem)
We don't care about the secretaries and the clerks, the janitors or the mail room people.

It's the upper management that needs to go. I think I've already explained this. Although a few middle managers could go to and that wouldn't hurt my feelings if they were involved in ideological manipulations of law and policy .

Schedule F appointment - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

I know rhats what you and others on rhe left think, but that's not going to happen. Neither Trump nor the rest of us care about the little guys. So you can put that to rest. All this hand wringing over "but they are civil servants! How dare you disparage these dear people who are only working for us out of a love for our country!" (Play the national anthem)
We don't care about the secretaries and the clerks, the janitors or the mail room people.

It's the upper management that needs to go. I think I've already explained this. Although a few middle managers could go to and that wouldn't hurt my feelings if they were involved in ideological manipulations of law and policy .

Upper management in agencies such as the FBI, DOJ, CIA, ATF, NSA, and other government entities consist of individuals who have dedicated 30 plus years to their respective organizations, possessing unmatched expertise and knowledge.

Do you want to replace these qualified individuals with political appointees because they disagree with you politically?

May be the issue with American government and agencies that some Americans prioritize political agreement over qualifications, leading to inefficiencies and underperformance.

 

[perplexed]

I really hope the "deep state" that opposed the fake elector plot survives

 

[essentialsaltes]

So now he has a chance to dismantle "the deep state" phantom. 2-4 years of no one else to blame. Let's see how we do.

Trump has long warned of a government ‘deep state.’ Now in power [for 4 months], he’s under pressure to expose it​

“IF IT’S EASY,” the commenter posted, “WHY HASN’T YOUR ADMINISTRATION FOUND THESE CRIMINAL’S ALREADY.”

 

[Say it aint so]

Trump has long warned of a government ‘deep state.’ Now in power [for 4 months], he’s under pressure to expose it​

“IF IT’S EASY,” the commenter posted, “WHY HASN’T YOUR ADMINISTRATION FOUND THESE CRIMINAL’S ALREADY.”

A group of oligarchs who run the country for self benefit. They are the deep state.

The idea that the swamp is those civil service workers is just short shortsightedly nuts.

 

[sanderabeer]

Trump has long warned of a government ‘deep state.’ Now in power [for 4 months], he’s under pressure to expose it​

“IF IT’S EASY,” the commenter posted, “WHY HASN’T YOUR ADMINISTRATION FOUND THESE CRIMINAL’S ALREADY.”

That's easy to answer. If they did so, they'd be exposing themselves. They are the deep state.

 

[Say it aint so]

Another example of the deep state.

Trump, Bashing the Federalist Society, Asserts Autonomy on Judge Picks​

Never mind a president already has complete autonomy to pick SCOTUS judges, the power of the Federal Society replete with picking and financially supporting their SCOTUS personal relationships, is the deep state.

 

[probinson]

Trump has long warned of a government ‘deep state.’ Now in power [for 4 months], he’s under pressure to expose it​

“IF IT’S EASY,” the commenter posted, “WHY HASN’T YOUR ADMINISTRATION FOUND THESE CRIMINAL’S ALREADY.”

I'm always amused when the mainstream media quotes some anonymous rando on the Internet as if it's news. Let's all stop to hear what "the commenter" has to say.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

It's always amazed me that some people believe that a guy producing podcasts from his mother's basement is news.