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Doug Wilson on Justification

ThatWhichIsnt

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I know there is a lot of fuss about his Federal Vision views, so I decided to watch a few videos of my own. I honestly do not see anything extremely unorthodox about him (maybe his views of paedocommunion, but that is another matter). He seems like a very intelligent man.

Is there anything wrong in this video?

Doug Wilson on Justification by Faith Alone and Future Justification - YouTube
 

cajunhillbilly

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Well I definitely agree with the historic Reformation view of justification. I have learned much from reading Luther and Calvin and consider them as carrying on the Augustinian tradition of grace alone. Justification is an act of God alone received through faith alone. We can do nothing to add to it at all. Now sanctification calls for us cooperating with God's grace, but we must never confuse justification and sanctification. I believe that was where Romanism went wrong. They virtually identify those.
 
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heymikey80

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It's a tough one.

The issue of "final justification" -- a NPP way of referring to the "Last Judgment" -- is varied when we get to it.

I'm even attracted to the "evidentiary" argument when it comes to the "Last Judgment". I think that's pretty-much what Matthew 25 has to mean.

But to line this up with statements by Paul, say in Romans 3:21-30, saying we will be (future) justified by faith, that's normally the issue involved. Yes, it is a different conception of justification; yes, works are evidentiary; it seems works actually bring us praise from God's Throne. Whether it has to be evidentiary and not simply as an occasion for the Kingly Throne's showering of reward, I'm not prepared to say.

I talked about this aspect of the New Perspective with some theologians about a decade ago, and their problem with the NPP is indeed not particularly the issue they would need to have with Wilson.

On the other hand, I think there're some other issues with Wilson's theology that are problematic. I've mentioned before that his book, "Standing on the Promises", generally treats wisdom as a covenant promise -- and thus doesn't treat it properly, as wisdom is not a promise. I actually wish this book had not made such a serious issue of the covenant promise, because I appreciate the thrust of the book otherwise. I'm kind of left asking, Is there a book like Wilson's but without all the promises?

Wilson's awfully specific here, and getting more specific would be something of a challenge to support the justification-by-faith-alone view using Scripture. That is, taking Matthew 25 as an evidentiary situation; taking James 2 as an evidentiary situation; is there something in Scripture that prevents it from being so? Wilson's response that works do not contribute to justification but merely support it, that to me is quite a distinction versus, say, Wright in his later book, "Paul".

There's also some question whether we can really make the "associative" leap that the NPP wants to make, using the term "final justification" to merge it back in with "present justification". The basis seems to be to attempt to re-unify all the uses of "justification", but it seems pretty apparent to me that there are two kinds of judgment: one works, the other faith. Melding those two judgments in certain ways doesn't sit well with Paul. Judgment by works is deadly to corrupt creatures. It's kind of a given, then, that there are sharply different judgments -- which in Greek is equivalent with "justifications".
 
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oworm

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It may be purely semantic but in Wilson's opening statement in answer to the question he states "Definitive Justification………….Justification that occurs during the course of a sinners life." This statements seems a little contradictory to me. If it is definitive then by definition it is complete and settled. If it is definitive then how can it be something that occurs progressively "during the course of a sinners life"? How can something definitive be progressive?

Perhaps he would have been better to use the word vindication instead of giving two definitions of the word justification. But even that would give me problems since I believe that Christ alone is our vindication with our works as evidence of that.

I don't see Justification used in a progressive sense in scripture. I only ever see it used as a present reality of something that has happened and is complete.
 
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Anoetos

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I have had to differentiate between Doug Wilson, purveyor of FV and Doug Wilson, orthodox pastor. I really do believe that he has moved away from all of his earlier, more extreme comments and is, today, pretty darned on the beam.

That said, his debate series with Christopher Hitchens and his appearances at Piper's roundtable discussions reveal him to be thoughtful, forthright and persuasive. In each instance, he was clearly the most intelligent and best prepared person in attendance.

I had an axe to grind with him for a long time, but after I took the time to listen to him, I found that I really had very little problem with him and I am and remain about as "plain vanilla" a Reformed Christian as you are apt to find. I do agree that his views on the communion of children are troubling, but I am not even sure that they are deal breakers, all things considered.
 
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Anoetos

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One more thing, Wilson's main problem seems always to have been that he tries to say too much and ends up confusing those who encounter him. He is not always clear and often seems to contradict himself.

But, I think a trajectory from status as someone enamoured of a new look at justification, to someone who has rethought a lot of it and has returned to the center can be seen in what he has said.

A trialer for his debates with Hitchens can be seen here.

His participation in a roundtable at Bethlehem Baptist can be heard on the desiring God podcast, I believe the discussion was "Calvin in the Theater of God".
 
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AMR

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