Doubleplusungood

[Xeno.of.athens]

"1984" is the name of a work of fiction. Its author is George Orwell (deceased). It is the story of a man living in a totalitarian state, called Oceania. A state that re-writes history, redefines words, controls all of the media, oversees everything and everyone all of the time, ruthlessly controls every thought and every action and every emotion and every facial expression and every bit of body language. In short from a free man's perspective Oceania is doubleplusungood but for those inside its influence Oceania is the salvation of humanity.

George Orwell intended his work to be a warning against Soviet communism, but he also intended it to be a warning against the tendency to control others by the use of force. J R R Tolkien also wrote a book, it is called "The Lord of the Rings" and it too is a warning against the tendency to control others by the use of force. Tolkien's book offers a gospel message of societal salvation by means of destroying the means of forcing others to submit (unwillingly) to control.

Now, what I am wondering is if Christianity is always or only sometimes on the right side of this existential question? In this question I intend "Christianity" to be understood of churches and denominations here on Earth.

 

[RandyPNW]

"1984" is the name of a work of fiction. Its author is George Orwell (deceased). It is the story of a man living in a totalitarian state, called Oceania. A state that re-writes history, redefines words, controls all of the media, oversees everything and everyone all of the time, ruthlessly controls every thought and every action and every emotion and every facial expression and every bit of body language. In short from a free man's perspective Oceania is doubleplusungood but for those inside its influence Oceania is the salvation of humanity.

George Orwell intended his work to be a warning against Soviet communism, but he also intended it to be a warning against the tendency to control others by the use of force. J R R Tolkien also wrote a book, it is called "The Lord of the Rings" and it too is a warning against the tendency to control others by the use of force. Tolkien's book offers a gospel message of societal salvation by means of destroying the means of forcing others to submit (unwillingly) to control.

Now, what I am wondering is if Christianity is always or only sometimes on the right side of this existential question? In this question I intend "Christianity" to be understood of churches and denominations here on Earth.

I wish your question was a little clearer, but I would say that Christianity is never always right. You appear to be talking about dictatorship and authoritarianism, as opposed to a monarchy?

Some would think of a Christian rule, such as under the Catholic Empire, as a form of authoritarianism. They would therefore reject that as an illegitimate theocratic system.

But some would see it as purely representative of Christian rule over the Christian masses. Elections or not, the consent of the governed is sometimes implied with a system of monarchy, as sometimes indicated by the presence of parliaments, for example.

At its heart Christian faith would reject any form of authoritarianism, since it violates free will and imposes upon the conscience somebody else's beliefs to an excess. But I would not argue that democratic forms of government are "Christian" either, since they are often based on humanism, reason, and religious pluralism.

 

[The Liturgist]

"1984" is the name of a work of fiction. Its author is George Orwell (deceased). It is the story of a man living in a totalitarian state, called Oceania. A state that re-writes history, redefines words, controls all of the media, oversees everything and everyone all of the time, ruthlessly controls every thought and every action and every emotion and every facial expression and every bit of body language. In short from a free man's perspective Oceania is doubleplusungood but for those inside its influence Oceania is the salvation of humanity.

George Orwell intended his work to be a warning against Soviet communism, but he also intended it to be a warning against the tendency to control others by the use of force. J R R Tolkien also wrote a book, it is called "The Lord of the Rings" and it too is a warning against the tendency to control others by the use of force. Tolkien's book offers a gospel message of societal salvation by means of destroying the means of forcing others to submit (unwillingly) to control.

Now, what I am wondering is if Christianity is always or only sometimes on the right side of this existential question? In this question I intend "Christianity" to be understood of churches and denominations here on Earth.

Well, I think I can best answer that question in Newspeak: oldthinkers dont bellyfeel Ingsoc.

 

[The Liturgist]

such as under the Catholic Empire

Under the WHAT? There has never in history been a “Catholic Empire,” although some Catholic nations, like Protestant nations, have built Empires. But that’s a bit like calling the British Empire the “Anglican and Presbyterian Empire”, or the Danish, Swedish and German Empires the “Lutheran Empire”, or the Dutch Empire and the Transvaal and South Africa the “Reformed Empire.”

 

[RandyPNW]

Under the WHAT? There has never in history been a “Catholic Empire,” although some Catholic nations, like Protestant nations, have built Empires. But that’s a bit like calling the British Empire the “Anglican and Presbyterian Empire”, or the Danish, Swedish and German Empires the “Lutheran Empire”, or the Dutch Empire and the Transvaal and South Africa the “Reformed Empire.”

I know it sounded a bit weird, but I was trying to make a point. Would you call the Hapsburg Empire a "Catholic Empire?"

It wasn't an Empire run by the Catholic ecclesiastical organization, but it was essentially Catholic. I was addressing what many refuse to acknowledge, that this kind of religious government had theocratic elements to it.

My goodness! People here in America angrily accuse some right-wing politicians of trying to establish a "theocracy" simply because they want to pass an anti-abortion law!

But would they go so far as to claim that the U.S. has *never* been a Christian country? Probably. They would rather claim it was always a *liberal* Christian country and a purely secular state with no theocratic essentials built into the Constitution at all!

However, the fact the religious and the secular were separated to some extent during the late Middle Ages and in the Reformation Era did not mean there were no theocratic elements in the State. A Catholic Inquisition would never have been possible if the secular and the religious authorities were not joined in some way.

And so, I use "Catholic" as descriptive of the kind of Empire that existed, and not as indicative of a religious organization or pure theocracy such as in Islamic fascist governments. Christianity has always tended to feel the need for checks and balances between the political authorities and the religious authorities.