Don't want to be one of those Christians but...

[ValleyGal]

Yes that's her. I got over my issues with her. Now I am dating a Christian woman she introduced me to. The person I am seeing is very close to her and she kind of asked me to be a defacto babysitter to my coworker.

Stop it. She is a grown woman, and not subject to being "babysat" by a male colleague. It is not up to your girlfriend/HER friend to babysit how HER girlfriend lives HER life.

I wasn't at the office when she was attacked. I found out about it because she called my girlfriend to cry about it to her. We both think this occurred as a direct result of how she chooses to live her life and we my girlfriend especially, wants to steer her away from these types of hazards on the future. My girlfriend shared with me that she is scared that one day my coworker now supervisor's antics will get her killed.

But with that being said, is there an acceptable way to counsel my coworker that God loves her and that some of his laws are for her own good and that truly if she lived a more Godly life the chances of this kind of thing is less likely to occur?

If this woman didn't come directly to you, and you were not at the office to witness anything, then none of this is your business and there is no acceptable way for you to discuss any of this with her. If this is something beyond your friend's capacity to counsel, that her friend might want to attend counselling. If the root of this fetish comes from response to some childhood trauma, there is help for her, and she may be able to get counselling free of charge.

But for you - you heard this second hand, you are not directly involved, you are a man, and she has an unhealthy relationship with sexuality. Distance yourself from this woman, and maintain your professional role with her - and keep it professional.

 

[PaulCyp1]

Humility is one of the virtues that are supposed to characterize Christians.

 

[GirdYourLoins]

Yes that's her. I got over my issues with her. Now I am dating a Christian woman she introduced me to. The person I am seeing is very close to her and she kind of asked me to be a defacto babysitter to my coworker. I wasn't at the office when she was attacked. I found out about it because she called my girlfriend to cry about it to her. We both think this occurred as a direct result of how she chooses to live her life and we my girlfriend especially, wants to steer her away from these types of hazards on the future. My girlfriend shared with me that she is scared that one day my coworker now supervisor's antics will get her killed.

First of all, the fact she introduced you to her friend says a lot. It shows that she trusts you with her friend and in a way has invited you into her life outside work as she will see you when she sees her friend. That and the telling you her little fraudshows a level of truest.

However, I think any comments to her would be better coming initially from your girlfriend, her friend. Maybe meet up with her with both of you there and ask outright if she is ok after what happened. At the end of the day she has been attacked and there are consequences when that happens. Start the conversation by showing concern and the both of you being there for her. Whether it gets around to witnessing to her in the same conversation or at a later time may not be over important.

 

[ripple the car]

First of all, the fact she introduced you to her friend says a lot. It shows that she trusts you with her friend and in a way has invited you into her life outside work as she will see you when she sees her friend. That and the telling you her little fraudshows a level of truest.

However, I think any comments to her would be better coming initially from your girlfriend, her friend. Maybe meet up with her with both of you there and ask outright if she is ok after what happened. At the end of the day she has been attacked and there are consequences when that happens. Start the conversation by showing concern and the both of you being there for her. Whether it gets around to witnessing to her in the same conversation or at a later time may not be over important.

Warning, have you read the other thread? This is the kind of behavior he's dealing with.

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...hould-feel-about-a-certain-co-worker.8068838/

A *lot* of us were very concerned about the very real possibility of this woman being spiritually or physically dangerous. Turns out she's into some creepy stuff, and feels that literally biting a chunk out of a man's arm is a justified response to sexual harassment. Don't get me wrong, sexual harassment is never ok, but biting into a dude's arm, and tearing out a chunk of his flesh in the process?

I don't know.... something tells me it'd be wisest to just stay far, far away from this lady. Plus, she's his boss. And a woman who's flirted with and made a pass at him before *and* almost got him arrested. There is just something weird about this whole deal.

Michael, let your lady friend counsel Ava, if she feels so incluned, or is so worried. It is not appropriate for you to evangelize your boss, unless she comes to you with specific questions about Christianity on her own. Especially as she has proven to be unpredictable and emotionally unstable.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

If she’s scared, encourage her to call the police. Then stay out of it. Ignoring the fact that you’re lusting for her, you’re not dating her, she’s your boss, she’s a victim of an assault, being Christian won’t lessen her chances of being assaulted, and you’re in a new relationship with her friend... A person who starts off with as many judgments as you did is not carrying the proper mindset to be an outreach to somebody. When one describes somebody in highly negative, demeaning terms, then includes only a passive “but she’s nice” as a quality, you are too biased and without enough forgiveness and compassion to be able to competently preach about the love of God and the nuances of salvation.

Not to mention, your brand new girlfriend as a friend of hers or not, you are waaaaay too involved in her sex life. Her sex life shouldn’t be a topic of conversation with you and your girlfriend, or anyone. She’s your boss, first and foremost, but beyond that... It’s not a gentlemanly thing to do. Ask the wives here how they’d feel if their husband knew the type of details you know about her... As a decade long member of the marriage forum, let me tell you... You’d be in the dog house.

And, frankly, talking about being the one who has to babysit her, staging an intervention on her sex life... If I was your boss, I’d counsel you on sexual harassment policies and reassign you. This kind of talk, paired with the talk on the other threads... You’ve walked past the fields of concern, crossed the river of boundaries into the forest of creepy, and appear to be setting up camp right on the base of obsession mountain.

This whole thing sounds like “The Age of Innocence” to me.

 

[Blade]

Sometimes.. just sometimes.. its NOT them.. it really is just you. Sometimes just sometimes what bothers us in others is we see our selfs. Just a thought

 

[ripple the car]

If she’s scared, encourage her to call the police. Then stay out of it. Ignoring the fact that you’re lusting for her, you’re not dating her, she’s your boss, she’s a victim of an assault, being Christian won’t lessen her chances of being assaulted, and you’re in a new relationship with her friend... A person who starts off with as many judgments as you did is not carrying the proper mindset to be an outreach to somebody. When one describes somebody in highly negative, demeaning terms, then includes only a passive “but she’s nice” as a quality, you are too biased and without enough forgiveness and compassion to be able to competently preach about the love of God and the nuances of salvation.

Not to mention, your brand new girlfriend as a friend of hers or not, you are waaaaay too involved in her sex life. Her sex life shouldn’t be a topic of conversation with you and your girlfriend, or anyone. She’s your boss, first and foremost, but beyond that... It’s not a gentlemanly thing to do. Ask the wives here how they’d feel if their husband knew the type of details you know about her... As a decade long member of the marriage forum, let me tell you... You’d be in the dog house.

And, frankly, talking about being the one who has to babysit her, staging an intervention on her sex life... If I was your boss, I’d counsel you on sexual harassment policies and reassign you. This kind of talk, paired with the talk on the other threads... You’ve walked past the fields of concern, crossed the river of boundaries into the forest of creepy, and appear to be setting up camp right on the base of obsession mountain.

This whole thing sounds like “The Age of Innocence” to me.

Yeah, I sort of agree with this. I'm not excusing Ava's behavior, but Michael, you have got to be less interested in this woman. Sometimes I feel like you agreeing to hang out with / date this friend of Ava's was just an excuse to have a further, personal connection to her. Really.

This lady is your boss. You have no obligation or ability to save her and you have no professional or spiritual grounds to counsel her or babysit her. It's not spiritually or professionally prudent. You need to leave her alone, pray for her in your heart, and as many, many people have suggested, if you can't get this lady out of your head, transfer, or seek another job.

This will only come back and kick you in the teeth. Leave this lady alone.

 

[thesunisout]

@Michellegen34 , @Andrew Restrepo ,@SolomonVII all this is good advice and I definitely believe what you are saying about this is a time for empathy rather than judgement.
The thing is she did confide in me and my girlfriend, and she told us some really alarming things. We don't want to judge and we take no pleasure in criticizing her behavior but there is definitely a darkness we want to combat. My girlfriend is a practicing Christian by the way and she is a very very close friend, almost like a sister to my coworker.
So here is what is really alarming to us. My coworker is definitely promiscuous but in addition to that she also has a death and bondage fetish. She told us that the man who attacked her is some one she met at a fetish convention. She shared with him her rape and murder fantasy and they decided to ingage in a role play trist. Apparently, in these role plays,both people agree to some ground rules and limits which don't get crossed. From what she told us, when they met to do this, she got scared because the guy brought a real knife instead of the agreed on play knife so she refused to play and left. The guy got upset because she didn't go through with the role play trist so he came to our work place to "get" her the next day.
Both my girlfriend and I feel that there is a darkness here that only Jesus could heal. The fact that she has a death fetish goes well beyond simple promiscuity.

Jude 1:22-23

And on some have compassion, making a distinction; but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.

 

[GirdYourLoins]

Warning, have you read the other thread? This is the kind of behavior he's dealing with.

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...hould-feel-about-a-certain-co-worker.8068838/

A *lot* of us were very concerned about the very real possibility of this woman being spiritually or physically dangerous. Turns out she's into some creepy stuff, and feels that literally biting a chunk out of a man's arm is a justified response to sexual harassment. Don't get me wrong, sexual harassment is never ok, but biting into a dude's arm, and tearing out a chunk of his flesh in the process?

I don't know.... something tells me it'd be wisest to just stay far, far away from this lady. Plus, she's his boss. And a woman who's flirted with and made a pass at him before *and* almost got him arrested. There is just something weird about this whole deal.

Michael, let your lady friend counsel Ava, if she feels so incluned, or is so worried. It is not appropriate for you to evangelize your boss, unless she comes to you with specific questions about Christianity on her own. Especially as she has proven to be unpredictable and emotionally unstable.

I had read some things in the other thread but not the biting a chunk of flesh out of someones arm. It depends on the situation in my opinion. what was the level of attack? If it was a case of that was the only thing she could do and bit him in desperation I could understand it, but if it was a deliberate act less so.

A the end of the day this woman is lost in sin. She, like the rest of us, needs saving. God can renew her mind and make her a new creation. When I read this I see a picture of a woman who clearly has some issues and has gone deeper into sin in an attempt to find fulfillment in her life. A lot of the time behaviour like this can be a cry for help or a way of getting attention for themselves.

First of all I would say this woman needs to hear the gospel and be invited to accept Jesus. The Op and his new girlfriend seem to have been put in a place to be able to do this. They should seek prayer covering when dealing with this woman and confront her in a kind and loving way on her behaviour Invite her to an alpha course or similar in their church but ensure the church are aware of her lifestyle as well as I am fully aware of the damage a wrong spirit can do to a church if allowed to continue unaddressed.

If she does not accept Jesus, then it may be time to walk away from her. I think we should give everyone a chance to accept Jesus and not run away from them scared. More extreme people like this require that we have a prayer covering and are strong in the Lord, it does not mean we leave them to a potential eternity in Hell which is how I see what you are saying. However I am also fully able to accept that maybe I have missed a lot of information that means we are past the point of giving her a chance to accept Christ and he should walk away. I just find it difficult to say leave someone, anyone, to go to hell.

 

[ripple the car]

I However I am also fully able to accept that maybe I have missed a lot of information that means we are past the point of giving her a chance to accept Christ and he should walk away. I just find it difficult to say leave someone, anyone, to go to hell.

It's also possible that I'm just being too shrill and harsh. It concerns me, though, that this has gone on like this for so long. Her behavior is pretty unpredictable. If she's directly involved in Satanic weirdness, trying to counsel her as a man could be unwise spiritually and professionally. Especially as she seems to have an unhealthy relationship with sex, be unpredictable, and hit on Michael at least twice when they were on the road. Plus she's his boss. Mrr.

I would still say, let Michael's lady friend counsel her, not Michael. There is too much baggage.

 

[Andrew Restrepo]

I would still say, let Michael's lady friend counsel her, not Michael. There is too much baggage.

I agree. There's just too many variables that make it unwise for Michael to be the one to counsel and minister to Ava. Wisdom would most likely tell him to rely on a female to do these things given his history with the female, his professional relationship with her, and her current and past behaviours. It's not an abandoning of and condemnent over her, but rather, a prayer effort with strategic intervention that doesn't immediately involve Michael, and by extension, put the female or him in harm's way.

Blessings.

www.theroadtoemmaus.ca

 

[ripple the car]

I agree. There's just too many variables that make it unwise for Michael to be the one to counsel and minister to Ava. Wisdom would most likely tell him to rely on a female to do these things given his history with the female, his professional relationship with her, and her current and past behaviours. It's not an abandoning of and condemnent over her, but rather, a prayer effort with strategic intervention that doesn't immediately involve Michael, and by extension, put the female or him in harm's way.

Blessings.

www.theroadtoemmaus.ca

Good one Andrew, that's very wisely and charitably said.

 

[dqhall]

Thereare certain Christians or there who like to lord their perceived holiness over others. Most of us know this to be wrong. One of the most objectionable behaviors of these people is trying to justify/attribute the misfortune of others to a perceived lack of righteousness. Almost as if God actively punishes people for not being "Christian enough". These are the people who make those heartless statements about how the Hati earth quake was the result of the Hatian's pact with the devil or the ones who victim blame rape victims for being "too sexy". I have never wanted to be one of these people, I have always believed they do much more harm than good to the Christian cause. However, on the flip side, there truly are some behaviors (i.e. drunkeness, promiscuity, over indulgence in food, drug use) that are dangerous, moral argument asside are self destructive and physically/physiologically harmful. And regardless of the reason for stigma/prohibition, be it self control, public shaming, religious morality, it is probably in the person's best interest to not do those things.
Here is what happened. Yesterday there was another incident at my job with my "peppery" coworker now supervisor. In a previous post I described how one of my coworkers is a let's say "odd" person. She is promiscuous, immature, rather corrupt but a asides from that she is pretty friendly and has been pretty good to me so I do defiantly see her as a friend and I do care about her well being. From what I understand she was a devout Christian who back slid.
Anyways yesterday she was attacked at work, like I mean physically attacked by a young man whom she was having a sexual trist with. This guy actually came to our office, got into an argument with her, physically attacked her, grabbed her by her hair and tried to force her into his vehicle.
Before I say anything else, I would like to make clear that it was completely unacceptable for that young man to attack her. Regardless of how she was dressed, what she may have said, what she may believe, there is no excuse for any one male or female to try to force a sexual encounter onto another.
But with that being said, is there an acceptable way to counsel my coworker that God loves her and that some of his laws are for her own good and that truly if she lived a more Godly life the chances of this kind of thing is less likely to occur?

Did you warn her she is living a dangerous lifestyle by seducing men interested in sadistic bondage? Some men do not know how to treat a lady. Domestic violence is done by men who do not believe in Christian ethics. These creeps do not always practice safe sex either. Some of them are bisexual with a list of deadly diseases such as HIV, HPV, Hepatitis, etc.

 

[Mayflower1]

You probably wouldn't want to suggest that the attack happened because of her but rather just focus on God's love for her. About two days ago I was reading the gospel of John where Jesus speaks with the samarian woman. What stood out to me about that passage was that even though Jesus showed the woman that he knew that she had been with five men previously and now lived with a man she wasn't married to, he didn't stop and scold the woman for her behavior like many others probably would have done. Instead he simply accknowledge that part about her and then continued on to what he saw as the truly important part, the living water and salvation. I think that we could learn from Jesus that it's not always about pointing out to the other person what thing they are doing wrong but instead the focus should be their salvation and Jesus's love for them. It's after that fact that I think people will follow with changing their behavior for the better once they realize that the "rules" are there because of that love. Sorry if I ranted a bit here but I think this way is the least likely way she will think you are judging her and only end up pushing you away. God bless you and I hope everything goes well with her.

This is great advice. I would definitely do this. The love of God will reveal things in her life to eventually change. Sometimes an attack can be an eye opener, but she could already be feeling shame for that. Your job is to pray and uplift her as her friend and show her how God loves her no matter what she has done or what has been done to her.

 

[discipler7]

Yes that's her. I got over my issues with her. Now I am dating a Christian woman she introduced me to. The person I am seeing is very close to her and she kind of asked me to be a defacto babysitter to my coworker. I wasn't at the office when she was attacked.

.
You should look at Ava as your future sister-in-law who is very naughty and wild. You should be there for naughty Ava, eg if she again gets physically bullied by big angry men over work or personal/sexual matters. Otherwise, your girlfriend will be very sad if you let anything untoward happens to Ava, eg through your inaction, unconcern or neglect in the office.
....... Most women are very sociable, loving, nurturing, motherly and tolerant.

It is quite "normal" for a hedonist like Ava to have sexual fantasies of being erotically raped and murdered. I think you should advise her to stop having such risky sexual fantasies or to only act it out with men she can trust and that she should inform you or your gf when and with whom she will be doing it = her "future murderer" can be caught by the police.?

Paul could also minister to Gentiles and sinners/evildoers because he knew about their sinful lifestyle and false beliefs, ie Paul was both a Roman(= Gentile) citizen and a zealous Jewish Pharisee.
....... Eg it was not illegal for Romans/Gentiles, at that time, to engage in easy-divorce, adultery, fornication, homosexuality, prostitution, incest or other sexual immorality, idolatry, blasphemy, apostasy, sorcery, etc.

1CORINTHIANS.9:19-23 = Serving All Men
19 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more; 20 and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law; 21 to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under law toward Christ), that I might win those who are without law; 22 to the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23 Now this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I may be partaker of it with you.
.
.
P S - Is sexual role-playing by a Christian married couple OK, eg husband and wife role-playing as doctor and nurse.?

 

[GirdYourLoins]

It's also possible that I'm just being too shrill and harsh. It concerns me, though, that this has gone on like this for so long. Her behavior is pretty unpredictable. If she's directly involved in Satanic weirdness, trying to counsel her as a man could be unwise spiritually and professionally. Especially as she seems to have an unhealthy relationship with sex, be unpredictable, and hit on Michael at least twice when they were on the road. Plus she's his boss. Mrr.

I would still say, let Michael's lady friend counsel her, not Michael. There is too much baggage.

In would go further than you. I dont think he or his girlfriend should counsel her. I said they should witness to her, but didnt say they should counsel her. I also suggested that they discuss her at church, in confidence of course and probably just with their pastor (or pastors if they do not go to church together yet as a fairly new relationship).

I also suggested that they get prayer covering at church for dealing with this woman. There is a possibility of demonic activity with her so they need protection. Fortunately for us Jesus already has the victory and authority and we can stand in that authority but it still requires discernment and dealing with properly.

 

[discipler7]

is there an acceptable way to counsel my coworker that God loves her and that some of his laws are for her own good and that truly if she lived a more Godly life the chances of this kind of thing is less likely to occur?

.
As an ex-Christian who has become disillusioned with Christianity and false/hypocritical Christians for certain reasons(eg dumped by her unfaithful Christian musician bf after sacrificing her virginity to him and being faithful to him for some years), Ava should be quite aware about God's Law/Moses Law or what is right and what is wrong/evil. Maybe she is not aware about ACTS.15:24-29 = the law exemptions granted by God to Gentile Christians so as not to burden them in their newfound faith life in Christ.

She has likely given up on love and romance. She has just chosen the dark side in her loveless hedonist life = she will reap all the suffering and calamities that she has sowed.
....... All you and your gf can do is warn her about the pitfalls of her sinful hedonist lifestyle, eg STDs, AIDS, cervical cancer, being murdered, etc. The wages of sin is death. You should be ready to catch her when she falls again since Ava is like your gf's small sister.
....... Hopefully, she will come to her senses one day and repent. In the meantime, just be patient and wait for her to come back to Christ on her own. If it does not happen, there is not much you can do except to watch over her. If it happens, then, you and your gf can receive the Prodigal Daughter/Son back to the arms of God.(LUKE.15:11, JOHN.3:14-18)

If you and your gf can show her how joyful, peaceful and loving a faithful Christian couple can be, maybe she will come to her senses quicker and repent.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _

The unfaithful Jews, led by their corrupt kings, committed sins/law-breaking because "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely". So, at around 700BC, God cursed the Jewish nation of Judah/Israel and the Jews into suffering under foreign rule and oppression for some centuries, ie they suffered under the rule of Babylon, Assyria, Greece and Rome. At the same time, through the Latter Prophets, God promised them a coming Messiah/Christ to "save" them, eg ISAIAH.9:6(cf; JOHN.4:25).

The Jews repented and waited patiently for their Messiah/Christ. Hence, they had the Pharisees who were experts on teaching the Jews on how to properly keep Moses Law(= lawyers).
....... Problem was, the Jews wanted a Messiah/Christ who would militarily defeat the Romans and gift them back their "kingdom of earth", ie Judah/Israel(JOHN.6:15). Alas, Jesus the Christ/Messiah/Saviour only wanted to give them a kingdom of heaven/God or eternal life or save them from hell in 30AD(MATTHEW.4:17). So, the Jews and Pharisees got rid of Jesus Christ for not fulfilling their expectations.
....... Only a small remnant of Jews believed in Jesus as the Christ/Messiah/Saviour, eg the apostles.(MATTHEW.16:16) Most of the rest of the unbelieving Jews perished during the Roman siege of Jerusalem in 70AD = likely for "killing" Jesus Christ on the Cross.

So, no matter how bad Ava's sinful/hedonist/decrepit life may turn out to be, you and your gf should be there for her to lead her to the kingdom of heaven/eternal life/being saved from hell through faith in Jesus Christ(not through good works) if the opportunity arises, ie when she repents.(eg LUKE.23:39-43 = the repentant robber hanging on the cross who was saved through faith in Christ)

 

[ubicaritas]

But with that being said, is there an acceptable way to counsel my coworker that God loves her and that some of his laws are for her own good and that truly if she lived a more Godly life the chances of this kind of thing is less likely to occur?

Don't go there. Especially if such "help" involves using moralistic religious language, I can't think of anything more poisonous to the faith she does have, and to her sense of self-worth.

Sometimes it is better to not help at all than to offer unwanted help. This is really a boundary issue. You aren't her pastor or therapist.

 

[MichaelDB]

Thanks for all the advice everyone and my girlfriend and I ate just taking the "we're not getting involved route". She had initially shared this episode with us to all for our "help". And what we did was advised her to go to the police (she refused to) and maybe think about the risks before she engages in risky behavior. However we found out that the reason she came to us at all is because she wants to get her hands on a police stun gun. My girlfriend's brother in law works for a police equipment supply company.
We are both thinking that there is a chance that the attack was all an act that she and one of her buddies put on in order for her to sob story her way into getting my girlfriend to help her get herself a police tazer.
My girlfriend seems to think this behavior is just "classic ava" and is fir the most part "harmless" as long as we don't fall for it. It seems like this behavior is just woven into the background fabric of the lives of people in her orbit.
Also concerning her being my boss. .. it turns out that my girlfriend is really good friends with our boss (the Muslim lady I talked about) and she advised her that Ava is not ready to manage another engineer who is almost 10 years her senior. So I was moved out of engineering and am a Senior Project Manager now. They hired Ava 2 junior engineers to do with as she pleases but I was given project management responsibilities over her projects.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Anybody, including civilians, can go out and buy a stun gun.

Honestly, I’d keep an eye on the new girlfriend. Something about her doesn’t pass the smell test.