Dont I Get A Choice?

Steezie · Aug 20, 2009

I've been talking with a user over PM about various things and one thing she said that I dont quite get is that because I'm polyamorous, I'm lucky. She said that God had laid out a clear path for me and that I was to ignore things of the world (Because you cant be poly apparently) and focus on God.

Now, this is a little confusing because first and foremost I'm not a Christian so why God is meddling in my life I cant really figure out. But my biggest hang up is the fact that I dont seem to have a choice in this, at least according to this line of thinking.

So, why DONT I have an actual choice in the course of my own life?

ebia · Aug 20, 2009

Steezie said:
I've been talking with a user over PM about various things and one thing she said that I dont quite get is that because I'm polyamorous, I'm lucky. She said that God had laid out a clear path for me and that I was to ignore things of the world (Because you cant be poly apparently) and focus on God.

Sorry? I'm a bit lost.

Now, this is a little confusing because first and foremost I'm not a Christian so why God is meddling in my life I cant really figure out.

God wishes to redeem, heal and restore all his creation, not just a bunch of....

But my biggest hang up is the fact that I dont seem to have a choice in this, at least according to this line of thinking.

So, why DONT I have an actual choice in the course of my own life?

You do have a choice. But choices have consequences and so not all options are equally good.

Van · Aug 20, 2009

Hi Steezie, a poster who likes Master and Commander and Serenity cannot be all that bad.

Your post was a little vague, so forgive me if my response has nothing to do with your question.

One flavor of Christianity, lets call them Calvinists, believes that the choices we make are either made for us, or they are non-consequential, they do not affect the outcome of our lives. Another flavor, lets call them non-Calvinists, believe we do make choices that affect the outcome of our life, such as whether or not to trust in Christ.

There are certainly verses in scripture which suggest God has a plan for each and everyone's life, but where Christians part company is whether God's plan includes allowing us to follow that plan or not. Lets say God had a plan for me yesterday, but rather than serve Christ as I should, I spent the afternoon surfing the web and writing posts I am pretty sure nobody actually reads. Now today, does God have a revised plan for me, given where I am now? I think yes. And certainly God can choose to intervene in my life and change my direction, or limit my options. For example, Paul says God hardened some folks hearts so the gospel of Christ would be spread to the Gentiles.

But I look at that story and draw another conclusion, if all their choices had been ordained, then God would not have had to intervene and harden their hearts. So I look at passages like that and conclude, we do make choices, God's plan for our lives includes allowing us to make choices, and therefore the Calvinist view I do not find to be the best view of scripture.

Hope some of the above helps. May God Bless

98cwitr · Aug 20, 2009

God is meddling because he loves you. You don't have to be a Christian for God to love you (See John 3). The same way a father loves a son who will not listen. You have a choice to listen or not. You have a choice to accept or not. God is knocking, but it is your choice to answer His calls.

freeport · Aug 21, 2009

Steezie said:
I've been talking with a user over PM about various things and one thing she said that I dont quite get is that because I'm polyamorous, I'm lucky. She said that God had laid out a clear path for me and that I was to ignore things of the world (Because you cant be poly apparently) and focus on God.

Now, this is a little confusing because first and foremost I'm not a Christian so why God is meddling in my life I cant really figure out. But my biggest hang up is the fact that I dont seem to have a choice in this, at least according to this line of thinking.

So, why DONT I have an actual choice in the course of my own life?

God is God, you really don't have a choice. "Free will" is an illusion. Good news for you is that God loves you.

"Poly amorous"... new word. I see Christians do this constantly, and they don't even call themselves "pagan".

At least you are honest about where you are coming from.

God has called us to be sons and daughters of God, however. To give it up to someone else is to rob yourself of that power.

Steezie · Aug 21, 2009

freeport said:
God is God, you really don't have a choice. "Free will" is an illusion. Good news for you is that God loves you.

"Poly amorous"... new word. I see Christians do this constantly, and they don't even call themselves "pagan".

At least you are honest about where you are coming from.

God has called us to be sons and daughters of God, however. To give it up to someone else is to rob yourself of that power.

Polyamorous is not a new word. It means someone who is in or open to the idea of being in a relationship involving multiple people. I'm also not a Christian, I AM in fact, a Pagan. I'm simply curious as to where this line of thinking finds its basis.

aiki · Aug 21, 2009

I've been talking with a user over PM about various things and one thing she said that I dont quite get is that because I'm polyamorous, I'm lucky.

Uh, why did she think being "polyamorous" and being lucky were connected?

She said that God had laid out a clear path for me and that I was to ignore things of the world (Because you cant be poly apparently) and focus on God.

There are things God has commanded all people to do and not do. You cannot be obedient to these commands and be "polyamorous" (if I understand the term correctly).

Now, this is a little confusing because first and foremost I'm not a Christian so why God is meddling in my life I cant really figure out.

Ha! This comment made me laugh! God "meddles" in your life because He's God. He brought you into existence and keeps you here as He likes. Your life, whether or not you approve, is totally in His hands. I'd say that gives Him the right to "meddle" in your life any way He wishes.

But my biggest hang up is the fact that I dont seem to have a choice in this, at least according to this line of thinking.

Quite right. God doesn't consult us before making us. He brought you to life for His purposes, not yours.

So, why DONT I have an actual choice in the course of my own life?

You do have a choice but the endpoint of what you choose God has already determined. That's His right as God.

Why should God make you and then let you go off and do as you please? Why should you be allowed to live completely autonomously, without regard for the One who not only made you, but continues each day to sustain your life?

Peace.

drich0150 · Aug 21, 2009

So, why DONT I have an actual choice in the course of my own life?

Apparently you do, "(Because you cant be poly apparently) and focus on God." If you are in fact poly, you have made that choice over that of what God wants for you, or what he has planned for you. God has made it clear that sex is to be experienced Through Marriage, by One Man, and One Woman. Your decision to have multiple partners is Just that. Your decision.

Steezie · Aug 21, 2009

aiki said:
Uh, why did she think being "polyamorous" and being lucky were connected?

The way she explained it, because I CANT actually physically engage in a polyamorous relationship, it means I have a clear-cut path set out for me and thats to not worry about things like relationships and focus on God. Essentially, I have to be celibate because I'm polyamorous, according to her logic at least.

There are things God has commanded all people to do and not do. You cannot be obedient to these commands and be "polyamorous" (if I understand the term correctly).

Which would actually mean something if I was Christian.

drich0150 said:
Apparently you do, "(Because you cant be poly apparently) and focus on God." If you are in fact poly, you have made that choice over that of what God wants for you, or what he has planned for you. God has made it clear that sex is to be experienced Through Marriage, by One Man, and One Woman. Your decision to have multiple partners is Just that. Your decision.

Being poly was not something I actively chose.

aiki · Aug 22, 2009

The way she explained it, because I CANT actually physically engage in a polyamorous relationship, it means I have a clear-cut path set out for me and thats to not worry about things like relationships and focus on God. Essentially, I have to be celibate because I'm polyamorous, according to her logic at least.

I don't get it. If you aren't engaged in polyamorous behaviour, how can you be polyamorous? Wanting to be polyamorous no more makes you polyamorous than wanting to be a brain surgeon makes you one. You may fantasize about brain surgery and lust after the opportunity to open up someone's skull, but simply thinking and feeling these things doesn't make you a brain surgeon, does it?

I gotta' say that this polyamorous stuff just sounds like promiscuity all dressed up. Sleeping around is suddenly okay if everybody your sleeping around with approves? "Birds of a feather flock together," the saying goes, and polyamorism appears to be a perfect example of the truth of it. Polyamorism is just a bunch of promiscuous folk indulging their promiscuity with each other. It is defended by characterizing it as "ethical, and transparent, and consensual," but this, it seems to me, is claiming nothing more than any dog could claim about its sexual endeavours.

God has condemned "polyamorism" very clearly in His Word. As a non-Christian, of course, you won't feel bound by this, but you did come here, to a Christian website, to ask your questions, so you shouldn't object when we reference the Bible in answer to your questions. God doesn't condemn promiscuity simply because He's "sexually uptight," but because He wishes to protect us from the harm such sinful conduct produces. He made us to become "one flesh" with just one other person of the opposite sex. This is His plan and it is perfect; any other configuration of His plan is a corruption of what is perfect.

Peace.

seashale76 · Aug 22, 2009

Steezie said:
So, why DONT I have an actual choice in the course of my own life?

Of course you have a choice. Life is about choices- even choosing to do nothing is a choice. You should take what random people tell you regarding anything (especially on the internet) with a grain of salt. Despite that, your OP is sort of confusing- I really don't have any idea what you're talking about.

98cwitr · Aug 22, 2009

Steezie said:
Being poly was not something I actively chose.

then how did you come to be this way? Was it something you passively chose?

drich0150 · Aug 22, 2009

Being poly was not something I actively chose.

In that statement you still recognize the choice you made.. Either way, God's choice for your life will not change no matter how you explain yourself to others. The fact that you are outside of what God wants for you should show you that you do indeed have the final say in your own life.

Steezie · Aug 22, 2009

98cwitr said:
then how did you come to be this way? Was it something you passively chose?

No, it was something that I came to realize I was.

drich0150 said:
In that statement you still recognize the choice you made.. Either way, God's choice for your life will not change no matter how you explain yourself to others. The fact that you are outside of what God wants for you should show you that you do indeed have the final say in your own life.

Fine, if we're going to nitpick, it wasnt something I CHOSE.

aiki said:
I don't get it. If you aren't engaged in polyamorous behaviour, how can you be polyamorous? Wanting to be polyamorous no more makes you polyamorous than wanting to be a brain surgeon makes you one. You may fantasize about brain surgery and lust after the opportunity to open up someone's skull, but simply thinking and feeling these things doesn't make you a brain surgeon, does it?

Being fundamentally ok with and willing to engage in a relationship with multiple people is defined as being polyamorous.

I gotta' say that this polyamorous stuff just sounds like promiscuity all dressed up. Sleeping around is suddenly okay if everybody your sleeping around with approves? "Birds of a feather flock together," the saying goes, and polyamorism appears to be a perfect example of the truth of it. Polyamorism is just a bunch of promiscuous folk indulging their promiscuity with each other. It is defended by characterizing it as "ethical, and transparent, and consensual," but this, it seems to me, is claiming nothing more than any dog could claim about its sexual endeavours.

Its not sleeping around, its being involved in an actual romantic relationship with more than one person. Sex in most polyamorous relationships play the same role as in most monogamous relationships.

MLEN · Aug 22, 2009

Steezie said:
So, why DONT I have an actual choice in the course of my own life?

You do have an actual choice in the course of your own life (see below quote from Deuteronomy 30:19-20)

"I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life... that both you and your children might live...That you may love the Lord your God, and that you may obey his voice...for he is your life..."

God created you with a purpose. He has something special he wants to do with and for you.

No matter what we have, what we do, or who we are, we're not really living out that full purpose until we completely surrender our lives into the hands of the God who made us and knows what he created us to be and do from the very start.

May you find that purpose.

aiki · Aug 23, 2009

Being fundamentally ok with and willing to engage in a relationship with multiple people is defined as being polyamorous.

Sorry to be blunt, but this is doesn't make any sense. To continue my comparison: being fundamentally okay with brain surgery and willing to engage in such surgery still doesn't make me a brain surgeon. The most I can claim is that I'm pro-brain surgery, not that my positive disposition toward it actually makes me a brain surgeon. No one is born a brain surgeon, just as no one is born "polyamorous."

Its not sleeping around, its being involved in an actual romantic relationship with more than one person. Sex in most polyamorous relationships play the same role as in most monogamous relationships.

I must say that "polyamorous," as far as I'm concerned, remains a fancy new term for a very old sin. And downplaying the sexual aspect of polyamorism is a rather dishonest maneuver. Really, the only thing that distinguishes a romantic relationship from a merely deeply affectionate one is sex. Take away the sexual dimension from "polyamorous" relationships and all you have are very good friends. In other words, "polyamorism" is, in the end, just promiscuous sex.

Peace.

Steezie · Aug 23, 2009

aiki said:
Sorry to be blunt, but this is doesn't make any sense. To continue my comparison: being fundamentally okay with brain surgery and willing to engage in such surgery still doesn't make me a brain surgeon. The most I can claim is that I'm pro-brain surgery, not that my positive disposition toward it actually makes me a brain surgeon. No one is born a brain surgeon, just as no one is born "polyamorous."

Being a brain surgeon and being polyamorous are 2 different things. A brain surgeon is an actual physical skill that requires training and practice. Being polyamorous is not analogous.

I used to be almost militantly monogamous; the idea of having another person in the relationship was almost repulsive. But as I got older, I was forced to examine the question and I found that a lot of the earlier negative feelings towards the idea were gone and that I actually was feeling very receptive to the idea. This wasnt something where I sat down and thought about it then changed my mind.

[quoteI must say that "polyamorous," as far as I'm concerned, remains a fancy new term for a very old sin. And downplaying the sexual aspect of polyamorism is a rather dishonest maneuver. Really, the only thing that distinguishes a romantic relationship from a merely deeply affectionate one is sex. Take away the sexual dimension from "polyamorous" relationships and all you have are very good friends. In other words, "polyamorism" is, in the end, just promiscuous sex. [/quote] I suggest you look up the word promiscuous because it doesnt mean what you think it means. In most polyamorous relationships, sex is confined to the relationship. There are open polyamorous relationships (just as there are open monogamous relationships) but that tends to be the exception.

The only difference between a poly and a mono relationship is the number of people involved.

ephraimanesti · Aug 23, 2009

Steezie said:
The only difference between a poly and a mono relationship is the number of people involved.

And, of course, the fact that the former is always a sin and the later--assuming a marriage exists--is not.

ephraim

aiki · Aug 23, 2009

Being a brain surgeon and being polyamorous are 2 different things. A brain surgeon is an actual physical skill that requires training and practice. Being polyamorous is not analogous.

They aren't perfectly analogous but insofar as making a distinction between desiring a particular state and actually being in that state are concerned the analogy is point on.

I used to be almost militantly monogamous; the idea of having another person in the relationship was almost repulsive. But as I got older, I was forced to examine the question and I found that a lot of the earlier negative feelings towards the idea were gone and that I actually was feeling very receptive to the idea. This wasnt something where I sat down and thought about it then changed my mind.

What "forced" you to examine your militant monogamy? The simple passing of time, as your remarks above seem to indicate? And doesn't examining your monogamy require thought? If so, then you did actually think about changing your mind about polyamorous behaviour.

I suggest you look up the word promiscuous because it doesnt mean what you think it means. In most polyamorous relationships, sex is confined to the relationship.

Well, from my monogamous point of view polyamorism seems very promiscuous. I suppose, though, that, for those who have embraced the idea of multiple sexual partners, the number of partners has to increase significantly before it is regarded as promiscuous. This is rather like the glutton who doesn't think eating a half dozen pies all at once and all by himself is gluttony. He is so used to overeating that it takes a full dozen pies to make him feel like he's being a pig.

The only difference between a poly and a mono relationship is the number of people involved.

Um, this is stating the obvious, I should think. You might as well have said, "The only difference between one and many is the number involved."

Peace.

salida · Aug 25, 2009

You always have a choice. God wants those to choose Him by their free will not by being forced robots. Deut 30:19. You can chose life or death. Its all based on his Word.

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