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Does Your Church Teach Real Discipleship Or Just Not Ready Yet?

Tellastory

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Matthew 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

The above would be referring to unbelievers.

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

This would be believers that become former believers whether it be because of the evolution theory, or an errant church doctrine or a church teaching on social values that insults them and thus humiliate them in the eyes of others because of what the Bible says, or just not grounded in the word enough as a disciple to not fall away from Jesus Christ altogether, thinking christianity is a lie.

22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

This would be believers that put the cares of this life as far more important than his walk with Jesus even though Jesus is within him always. Kind of like hiding his light under a bushel as of a result; not tending to his walk in being fruitful, let alone in being fruitful to others in their walk with Jesus.

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

This would be believers that are His disciples abiding in Him & His words by trusting Him as their Good Shepherd that they are walking with Him in the light & discerning his walk with Him for Him to purge him so they can bear more fruit in having that fellowship with the Father & the Son, and with others too at church & outside of church in their walk with God.

1 John 1:

3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.


It is not enough to edify what the denomenational church teaches as acceptable which can be debatable as being the milk, but to expose & reprove by the scriptures what lies are not of Him in churches as well as in the world so that they are grounded in the word when they leave the church service to walk the world with Him.

Does your church provide discipleship like that or not?

Is your church still on the milk? When will it be ready to receive the meat?

1 Corinthians 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

Hebrews 5:
11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
 

~Anastasia~

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Our Church is HUGE on discipleship. In ways I never came close to experiencing before.

Not only do we have outstanding Bible studies and teaching that is embedded within the Liturgical services themselves, but there is a great focus in becoming more like Christ. It's not only about teaching and theology for us (though that's part of it) but the goal is complete transformation, and the Church provides many disciplines to accomplish this. The Sacraments, fasting, regular prayers, guidance in spiritual matters, the example of those that have gone before us, service and ministering to others, and much more.

It is a big part of what I most appreciate about our Church.
 
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Tellastory

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Discipleship is a big part of growing in Christ for us.

Our Church is HUGE on discipleship. In ways I never came close to experiencing before.

Not only do we have outstanding Bible studies and teaching that is embedded within the Liturgical services themselves, but there is a great focus in becoming more like Christ. It's not only about teaching and theology for us (though that's part of it) but the goal is complete transformation, and the Church provides many disciplines to accomplish this. The Sacraments, fasting, regular prayers, guidance in spiritual matters, the example of those that have gone before us, service and ministering to others, and much more.

It is a big part of what I most appreciate about our Church.

Do you do this with Jesus, leaning on Him for wisdom & discernment to prove & confirm everything by the scripture in the KJV Bible in the course of your discipleship?

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

Scripture teaches you to prove all things with His help and by the scripture too while seeking to be His disciples.

Psalm 118:8 It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man.

Paul had to do this to Peter.

Galatians 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. 12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. 13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. 14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. 18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

What right did Paul had to confront Peter to be submissive to the Word of God?

1 Corinthians 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. 2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you. 3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Paul did not say that he was the head nor was Peter the head, but Jesus Christ is, and all believers are to follow Christ Jesus personally as being their "Head". Paul asked to follow after his example which is to follow Christ Jesus; not to follow himself.

And so Peter nor any member of the Fathers of the First Council of Constantinople, gets a free pass when our confidence is in the Lord; and not in men in being our sole Head.

Jesus Christ really is the Good Shepherd; accept no substitute.

So do consider your discipleship by proving all things by Him, okay , Sisters?
 
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~Anastasia~

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Do you do this with Jesus, leaning on Him for wisdom & discernment to prove & confirm everything by the scripture in the KJV Bible in the course of your discipleship?

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

Scripture teaches you to prove all things with His help and by the scripture too while seeking to be His disciples.

Psalm 118:8 It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man.

Paul had to do this to Peter.

Galatians 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. 12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. 13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. 14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. 18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

What right did Paul had to confront Peter to be submissive to the Word of God?

1 Corinthians 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. 2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you. 3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Paul did not say that he was the head nor was Peter the head, but Jesus Christ is, and all believers are to follow Christ Jesus personally as being their "Head". Paul asked to follow after his example which is to follow Christ Jesus; not to follow himself.

And so Peter nor any member of the Fathers of the First Council of Constantinople, gets a free pass when our confidence is in the Lord; and not in men in being our sole Head.

Jesus Christ really is the Good Shepherd; accept no substitute.

So do consider your discipleship by proving all things by Him, okay , Sisters?

Christ is the Head of the Church. All things are viewed through the lens of the Gospel, which reveals the Person of Christ. The Holy Spirit leads us into all Truth.

And we the Body participate in the Church and are members of one another - but our individual work is to pursue being united with Christ ourselves through being transformed into His likeness.
 
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Tellastory

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Christ is the Head of the Church. All things are viewed through the lens of the Gospel, which reveals the Person of Christ. The Holy Spirit leads us into all Truth.

And we the Body participate in the Church and are members of one another - but our individual work is to pursue being united with Christ ourselves through being transformed into His likeness.

Sounds good, but since we are to prove all things by Him, that would include not ignoring any scripture that opposes selected scripture that has been used to justify the practice any of these Liturgical services also.

Like believing Christ's Presence is in the bread & the wine, using selected scripture from John 6th chapter when Jesus was not talking about communion at all, but how we are saved by coming to & believing in Jesus Christ: John 6:30-36 It was because the Jews did not believe in Him as their mentality was stuck on actually eating this bread of life instead of listening to Jesus on how to receive that bread of life by believing in Him IS why Jesus spoke what He had said to the unbelieving Jews. Jesus even went on to explaining to His disciples of that hard saying to the Jews, and He stated again why not all of them will receive that bread of life because He knew Judas Iscariot did not believe in Him.

It is better to take doctrine on what Jesus said to the disciples rather than the hard saying He had said to the Jews for not believing in Him as the only way to receive that bread of life He was talking about on how one is saved.
 
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FireDragon76

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It is better to take doctrine on what Jesus said to the disciples rather than the hard saying He had said to the Jews for not believing in Him as the only way to receive that bread of life He was talking about on how one is saved.

Almost all historic churches believe the bread and wine in communion are the body and blood of Christ, though they may differ in understanding how this is possible.

We are saved by faith, but we have to appropriate that faith ourselves through hearing the Gospel and receiving the sacraments. Personal piety and Bible study don't overthrow the place of the Church in our lives.
 
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PaladinValer

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As a TT Ambassador, let me remind folks that this is the safehome for people who told to traditional, historic Christian theology, which includes things like the Real Presence. In addition, it is against policy here to have a deceptive purpose, and only the actual topic given in the opening post is up for discussion. Please monitor your posts and edit anything that may be questionable for the purpose of this forum, and keep only to the actual topic, which is, here, discipleship.

I encourage all to remember the Six Principles, which can be found in the official Statement of Purpose for TT, particularly Point 4.

Thanks and a good day to all.
 
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Liberasit

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Do you do this with Jesus, leaning on Him for wisdom & discernment to prove & confirm everything by the scripture in the KJV Bible in the course of your discipleship?

The Holy Spirit, obviously.

Happy with the Nearly Infallible Version (UK).
 
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Tellastory

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Bible study don't overthrow the place of the Church in our lives.

Getting back to discipleship and away from my example for confirmation or reproving by the scripture as a means for discipleship, a Bible Study could not overthrow anything when the church places her existence & her practises on the scripture...as long as the church tradition is in agreement with "all of the scripture in the N.T." to avoid making disciples of a church rather than disciples of Jesus Christ.

A church discipling believers to be disciples of Jesus Christ should find no opposition in scripture in the N.T. that would reprove church traditions since the church as a whole by example is being a disciple of Jesus Christ as well.

Such discipleship within the church should strengthen them in their walk with Him, especially when in certain war zones when the church building is gone and assembly is whenever and wherever they can meet with fellow disciples in following Jesus Christ, trusting Him as their Good Shepherd to lead them as His disciples in a fallen world.

One should not have to be in a war zone or see an approaching war for a church to find the necessity to strengthen believers in their walk with Him in how to be His disciples when the lies of the world and the temptations abounding in times of peace is also just cause to disciple them to be "ready" and rooted in His words to follow Him outside the church in their daily living, trusting in Him & all His promises to us in helping us to follow Him as His disciples.
 
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FireDragon76

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Getting back to discipleship and away from my example for confirmation or reproving by the scripture as a means for discipleship, a Bible Study could not overthrow anything when the church places her existence & her practises on the scripture...as long as the church tradition is in agreement with "all of the scripture in the N.T." to avoid making disciples of a church rather than disciples of Jesus Christ.

I just don't see the issue considering the Church is the body of Christ.

A church discipling believers to be disciples of Jesus Christ should find no opposition in scripture in the N.T. that would reprove church traditions since the church as a whole by example is being a disciple of Jesus Christ as well.

I go to Episcopal and Lutheran churches . We are not big on discipline, we are more about invitation. While personal piety is fine, it should not be disruptive of good order or bind consciences needlessly.

You might find this stuff unfaithful perhaps, but there are so many people out there broken by bad religion. My pastor likes to quote Mother Theresa on this point, not all of us can do great things but all of us can do small things with great love.
 
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Tellastory

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As a TT Ambassador, let me remind folks that this is the safehome for people who told to traditional, historic Christian theology, which includes things like the Real Presence. In addition, it is against policy here to have a deceptive purpose, and only the actual topic given in the opening post is up for discussion. Please monitor your posts and edit anything that may be questionable for the purpose of this forum, and keep only to the actual topic, which is, here, discipleship.

I encourage all to remember the Six Principles, which can be found in the official Statement of Purpose for TT, particularly Point 4.

Thanks and a good day to all.

Would you believe me if I said I did not scroll down the page to see the main forum of General Theology showing its own topics? Here I was trying to figure out where this topic would fit in from among those other selective sub forums that I did not see the main one of General Theology below them because I did not scroll down further to see that.

Please move this thread to the General Theology main forum.

My being a newbie is still showing. I cannot save face.

Thank you.
 
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Tellastory

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I just don't see the issue considering the Church is the body of Christ.

I go to Episcopal and Lutheran churches . We are not big on discipline, we are more about invitation. While personal piety is fine, it should not be disruptive of good order or bind consciences needlessly.

You might find this stuff unfaithful perhaps, but there are so many people out there broken by bad religion. My pastor likes to quote Mother Theresa on this point, not all of us can do great things but all of us can do small things with great love.

I should not continue to reply in this thread until it is moved, but it is clear by your post that we do not agree on discipleship since evangelical outreach seems to be the main focus for you & your church, and thus only giving the milk, and so I shall leave it at that.

Thank you for sharing & for your participation.

After reading PaladinValor's post, I was like... GT? Wait a minute here... and then I looked again and all I saw was those selected sub forums until I saw the scroll thing on the right side indicating that there was more underneathe and viola... as well as an uh oh.

I had posted this in the wrong forum. Sorry.

Out of all of those sub forums, I had figured that there ought to be something like "traditional" discipleship, and wondered if it might be different among the church denomenations, and so I was asking if they give the "meat" at all or if they are still giving the milk because many church members may not be able to handle the meat of His words for discerning good & evil as His disciples yet.
 
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FireDragon76

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I should not continue to reply in this thread until it is moved, but it is clear by your post that we do not agree on discipleship since evangelical outreach seems to be the main focus for you & your church, and so I shall leave it at that.

No, it's not so much "outreach" (neither Lutherans nor Episcopalians are noted for making a "decision for Christ") we really believe that's how the Christian life is supposed to be. The Gospel is not just for people that are unsaved, Christian need to hear it over and over, because we continue to sin, and continue to need God's grace.

In fact we do have a "Bible study" but often times we are reading bits of the Bible mixed with other books. Right now we are reading a book called "Travel Guide to Heaven" and discussing the book of Revelation.
 
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PaladinValer

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An act as Ambassador and as a notice to all posters: This was a thread moved from TT to GT, and as such now falls under the Statement of Purpose of GT, not TT. Previous participants please be aware of this, as there are no violations in any post now given its new home, and that the OP asked for the thread move needs to be respected.
 
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~Anastasia~

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Sounds good, but since we are to prove all things by Him, that would include not ignoring any scripture that opposes selected scripture that has been used to justify the practice any of these Liturgical services also.

Like believing Christ's Presence is in the bread & the wine, using selected scripture from John 6th chapter when Jesus was not talking about communion at all, but how we are saved by coming to & believing in Jesus Christ: John 6:30-36 It was because the Jews did not believe in Him as their mentality was stuck on actually eating this bread of life instead of listening to Jesus on how to receive that bread of life by believing in Him IS why Jesus spoke what He had said to the unbelieving Jews. Jesus even went on to explaining to His disciples of that hard saying to the Jews, and He stated again why not all of them will receive that bread of life because He knew Judas Iscariot did not believe in Him.

It is better to take doctrine on what Jesus said to the disciples rather than the hard saying He had said to the Jews for not believing in Him as the only way to receive that bread of life He was talking about on how one is saved.

I appreciate your concern. :)

Quite simply, we interpret that passage somewhat differently. Tradition existed alongside the earliest epistles, and so developed with New Testament Scripture and enclosed the very formation of the canon. We don't accept anything in contradiction to Scripture. But it would be unreasonable if the Church believed one thing and then canonized Scripture that went against that.

I have enough experience with the sacraments of the Church to know that I meet Christ Himself there, and will never willingly give that up.

I do appreciate your concern. But I find rational, historic, and spiritual reasons that confirm my faith as never before, and I've made a wide search over the years. God be with you! :)
 
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Tellastory

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No, it's not so much "outreach" (neither Lutherans nor Episcopalians are noted for making a "decision for Christ") we really believe that's how the Christian life is supposed to be. The Gospel is not just for people that are unsaved, Christian need to hear it over and over, because we continue to sin, and continue to need God's grace.

In fact we do have a "Bible study" but often times we are reading bits of the Bible mixed with other books. Right now we are reading a book called "Travel Guide to Heaven" and discussing the book of Revelation.

Since this is in General Theology now, you do not have to reply any more if you do not want to.

At any rate, the "meat" of God's words are used to discern good & evil as the scripture in the OP indicates which is integral for discipleship as well as for keeping the faith.

So that is why I am still seeing in your reply that the despensing of God's words to the church assembly as still being milk. If the church feels its members are not ready to handle the meat, but milk only, they would know better than I would.
 
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Tellastory

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An act as Ambassador and as a notice to all posters: This was a thread moved from TT to GT, and as such now falls under the Statement of Purpose of GT, not TT. Previous participants please be aware of this, as there are no violations in any post now given its new home, and that the OP asked for the thread move needs to be respected.

Thanks.
 
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