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I think the debate is on OSAS:
Oscarr's position is OSAS. The Holy Spirit will ensure the believer remains saved.
BNR32FAN's position is once saved, believers have to abide in Jesus to remain saved otherwise they may fall away.
My view is that a genuinely converted believer has been transformed and has the indwelling Holy Spirit, and so the last thing he would want would be to do anything that would hinder his fellowship with God and his abiding in Christ. Some progress along the sanctification path faster than others, and some are stronger in their faith than others, but if it genuine faith, then they cannot fail. Some need more support from other believers than others. Some stride strongly toward the celestial city, and others hobble along on crutches. Some sail all the way in fair weather and good winds, while others encounter storm after storm, but their boat gets there, even if it just gets to the harbour without sinking.I think the debate is on OSAS:
Oscarr's position is OSAS. The Holy Spirit will ensure the believer remains saved.
BNR32FAN's position is once saved, believers have to abide in Jesus to remain saved otherwise they may fall away.
My view is that a genuinely converted believer has been transformed and has the indwelling Holy Spirit, and so the last thing he would want would be to do anything that would hinder his fellowship with God and his abiding in Christ. Some progress along the sanctification path faster than others, and some are stronger in their faith than others, but if it genuine faith, then they cannot fail. Some need more support from other believers than others. Some stride strongly toward the celestial city, and others hobble along on crutches. Some sail all the way in fair weather and good winds, while others encounter storm after storm, but their boat gets there, even if it just gets to the harbour without sinking.
But the hypocrite may start well, but as soon as the first problem or persecution happens, they quit and fall away.
Therefore I believe in eternal security for the genuine believer. John Bunyan's "Pilgrims Progress" is a good picture of the different types of people in the road to the celestial city and what was their outcome.
I put it on dreamreader on my ipad and let the good British voice read the whole book to me during my bus trips to work and late at night just before I went to sleep. The techology was great which made the voice very expressive and brought out the text magnificently. I loved Valiant for Truth with his sword, Mr Standfast, and Mr Honest. I heard of Ignorant who thought he knew it all getting right to the gates of the Celestial city, but didn't have the qualifications to get in and went down into hell right there. I loved it when Mr Honest got to the middle of the river, and Mr GoodConscience was theire to help him over.I LOVE Pilgrims Progress!
You just took me back!!!! <3
I put it on dreamreader on my ipad and let the good British voice read the whole book to me during my bus trips to work and late at night just before I went to sleep. The techology was great which made the voice very expressive and brought out the text magnificently. I loved Valiant for Truth with his sword, Mr Standfast, and Mr Honest. I heard of Ignorant who thought he knew it all getting right to the gates of the Celestial city, but didn't have the qualifications to get in and went down into hell right there. I loved it when Mr Honest got to the middle of the river, and Mr GoodConscience was theire to help him over.
It is a brilliant story because it identifies all the genuine types of believers, and those who never get on the path, and others who come over the wall and not through the narrow gate, and others found in the way, but fall down the different shortcuts to hell. Yet there were two genuine pilgrims who were imprisoned in Doubting Castle and had to be rescued. And there was Mr Readytohalt who always felt like giving up, hobbled along a crutches, but never did give up with the support of the others who encouraged him to keep going. I think that some on CF need to learn about that so they can learn to be encouraging toward weaker brethren than to be quick in condemning them for their shortcomings and failures. And then there was Mr Fearing, who went his whole journey always being afraid, but despite his fears, never turned back.I LOVE Pilgrims Progress!
You just took me back!!!! <3
Makes it quite clear, doesn't it?Moses kept beating Christian down!
It was interesting when Christian didn't follow the directions of the shepherds, strayed off the main track, got lost, had to be redirected back to the main path by two shining men, and then he got a whipping by way of chastisement because he didn't listen to the shepherds and didn't read the map to the celestial city that the shepherds gave him.Makes it quite clear, doesn't it?
The Gospel is not that we can go to heaven because of the Cross, but we can be blessings to other people and receive everlasting treasure instead of treasure that rusts and perishes. Why do people forget to link the Gospel to the promise that God gave to Abraham, that the world would be blessed through his seed?Makes it quite clear, doesn't it?
My view is that a genuinely converted believer has been transformed and has the indwelling Holy Spirit, and so the last thing he would want would be to do anything that would hinder his fellowship with God and his abiding in Christ. Some progress along the sanctification path faster than others, and some are stronger in their faith than others, but if it genuine faith, then they cannot fail. Some need more support from other believers than others. Some stride strongly toward the celestial city, and others hobble along on crutches. Some sail all the way in fair weather and good winds, while others encounter storm after storm, but their boat gets there, even if it just gets to the harbour without sinking.
But the hypocrite may start well, but as soon as the first problem or persecution happens, they quit and fall away.
Therefore I believe in eternal security for the genuine believer. John Bunyan's "Pilgrims Progress" is a good picture of the different types of people in the road to the celestial city and what was their outcome.
It was when Christian stood before the cross of Christ that the burden of his sin fell off his back and went down into a hole in the ground at the foot of the cross.The Gospel is not that we can go to heaven because of the Cross, but we can be blessings to other people and receive everlasting treasure instead of treasure that rusts and perishes. Why do people forget to link the Gospel to the promise that God gave to Abraham, that the world would be blessed through his seed?
A believer would not be able to abide in and obey Christ without the indwelling Holy Spirit. So it is not natural at all. If a believer depended on his natural strength of will to remain obedient, he would fail and fall.As I see it, the difference is abiding in Christ. Oscarr's position is that believers will naturally abide and obey Christ. We can see this total obedience in Abraham, he obeyed the call to sacrifice Isaac. Can every Christian say that they can obey this sacrifice?
It is interesting to note, that the weaker pilgrims, like Fearing, old Mr Honest, ReadytoHalt, and others were supported by Greatheart, Valiant for Truth, Mercy, Standfast, and GoodConscience. This shows that being in a support fellowship of believers gives strength and support to weaker believers.Moses kept beating Christian down!
Actually the sin remains. Grace covered sin. Paul asked for a particular sin to be removed, but to prevent him from becoming proud, God let it stay, remarking that His grace was sufficient. The grace that rest in Christ provided. Through this grace, we can be perfected, become blessings to the world. John the Baptist gave the same rest as Joshua, but there remained a different rest to be entered. Why do you think Christ said the latter baptized with water, but He baptized with the Holy Spirit and with fire?It was when Christian stood before the cross of Christ that the burden of his sin fell off his back and went down into a hole in the ground at the foot of the cross.
It is interesting to note, that the weaker pilgrims, like Fearing, old Mr Honest, ReadytoHalt, and others were supported by Greatheart, Valiant for Truth, Mercy, Standfast, and GoodConscience. This shows that being in a support fellowship of believers gives strength and support to weaker believers.
It was interesting when Christian didn't follow the directions of the shepherds, strayed off the main track, got lost, had to be redirected back to the main path by two shining men, and then he got a whipping by way of chastisement because he didn't listen to the shepherds and didn't read the map to the celestial city that the shepherds gave him.
Churches don't teach much about chastisement when we stray off the beaten track!
This is why there’s no guarantee you’ll be delivered from your sin in the end.
What do you mean "in the end"? We have to be born again of the Spirit NOW. Do all Calvinists believe we won't be delivered from sin until we die?
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