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Okay , I think you are really trying. The Promise of Yahweh in Scripture is that we know, because of the spirit HE PUTS IN US when we are born again by HIS WILL.
We have perfect peace and joy without measure (immeasurable, unending, that cannot be taken from us) , and righteousness, as HE SAYS, in Jesus our Savior, the Messiah.
I've been tossed between doctrines many times.
I come across scriptures that seem to support OSAS and some refute it.
I really want to stop being tossed and be justified by faith in Christ and not by the law, yet live holy before the Lord without saying is this getting me to heaven? But simply just knowing the truth... For example there's a scripture that talks about that some are ever-learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth, and I don't want that to be me...
Please explain to me if this supports OSAS somehow, or it simply refutes it.
The scripture is Matthew 24:48-51 KJV
Matthew 24:48-51 King James Version (KJV)
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
My beloved brothers and sisters, please do not be deceived by false doctrine.
Please, draw near to God by faith through the Spirit and listen to his voice.
For he is gentle and humble and he will teach you all you need to know.
He has moved so much in my life and a lot today and I have gained much understanding. Any disobedient and careless act can bring us to another unholy deed that can lead to many more. We are to workout our salvation. We are to test ourselves to see if we are in the faith.
My beloved brothers and sisters, please search the word of truth for yourself, do not listen to any website, family member, or church, but listen to the true word of God that liveth and abideth for ever. Please do not deny Jesus but allow him to speak to you.
Please before you read or answer below, take some time to humble yourself, draw near to God by faith, to be in the Spirit.
I ask that before answering you ask the Lord for understanding and wisdom.
May Jesus abundantly bless you with his knowledge, and many many miracles that worketh mightily in those who abideth in him. Praise the Lord!
No.Does this scripture refute OSAS?
1 John 3:9One real concern about the OSAS idea is how it seems to suggest continuing in sin doesn't matter.
No.
I believed on the Lord when I was 12 years old. When I was around 15 I consciously walked away from Christianity because I was taught that I had to do certain things (or, more precisely "not" do or think on certain things). It was not until I was almost 30 that the Lord dragged me back into the Kingdom of God.
The first thing I did when I believed was to find out clearly and concisely what the scriptures did and did not teach concerning eternal the security of believers (i.e. - how am I saved and how can I stay saved).
I've been over this subject dozens of times in my 60 years with the Lord. That is because wrong thinking along these lines cost me some 15 years of Christian growth and much loss because of my debauched life before returning to the Lord.
I could go over go through the subject verse by verse for the entire thread. But I won't.
What I will do is share what I have found as a sincere and active "theologian" over the majority of my life.
There are various ways to explain away (if you will) every scripture which seems to teach possible loss of security.
There is absolutely no way that the scriptures which tell us of eternal security can be "explained away".
Unlike some loss of salvation scriptures (such as the one you have referred us to in the OP) - scripture from the other side must be taken to mean exactly what they say.
One who has truly been saved by grace through faith has passed from death to life and will never again come into condemnation although they can incur the displeasure and the discipline of the Lord and suffer great loss.
This does not address those who only make a profession of faith or who are trying to obtain salvation by their own good works. They will be lost simply because the Lord "never" knew them in the first place.
1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Not single one , not even taking forbidden fruit like Eve and Adam .
Consider Peter. Not only denying Christ before the crucifixion, but later even after the Spirit came (!), Peter for a time wrongly refusing to eat with the uncircumcised and who was confronted by Paul, who said Peter "stood condemned" .
Was that it for Peter?
No, he repented.
To understand the seeming contradiction to your verse from chapter 1 of 1 John, and the full message, we need to read fully through, just as John intended and expected. Once a person has freshly (say within the last few months) read 1 John fully, then it's far easier to fit together all the message.
In other words, in this we need all the parts in the epistle. Then suddenly we can understand each part.
Consider Peter. Not only denying Christ before the crucifixion, but later even after the Spirit came (!), Peter for a time wrongly refusing to eat with the uncircumcised and who was confronted by Paul, who said Peter "stood condemned" .
Was that it for Peter?
No, he repented.
To understand the seeming contradiction to your verse from chapter 1 of 1 John, and the full message, we need to read fully through, just as John intended and expected. Once a person has freshly (say within the last few months) read 1 John fully, then it's far easier to fit together all the message.
In other words, in this we need all the parts in the epistle. Then we can understand each part.
What about Matthew ?
Matthew 7:18-23 King James Version (KJV)
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Looks like if you have 1 bad fruit on your tree then your tree is all bad , you can't even have one bad fruit to have good tree with good fruits , and bad tree can't even bear a good fruit .
That passage is verses 15 through 20. About knowing who are false prophets.
If you take it more broadly, do you think Peter is lost then having had a bad fruit at times?
Not if we read through full books. Then we know Peter repented. John 15, v1-17 is helpful. The vinedresser prunes.
I have not read the thread, this is a general comment to the OP.
We know the Bible is 100% true. So from there, when you see verses that seem to contradict you must look to find how they can both be true at the same time.
Anyone whose "doctrine" throws out / ignores verses they don't like is not a Bible based, Bible believing doctrine..
It's a matter of how all verses being true, work together hand in hand to shape your belief.
What does repentance mean ? Does it mean that somebody sinned and is feeling guilty and want to make up for such mistake ?
You asked that before (to another person, but I replied), remember?
I understand if it slipped memory. I found it quickly, and here's a link:
https://www.christianforums.com/threads/how-do-i-actually-be-saved.8072098/#post-72908469
Could you explain this one to me .
Proverbs 26:4-7 King James Version (KJV)
4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.
That's why we get confused , why God did not make it more clear , they are next to each other and seem to contradict . Then you see some unbeliever laughing at these types of verses and you can't really deny and fight against his argument .
You have committed a logical fallacy otherwise popularly known as an overgeneralization. Just because SOME believers who depart from the faith were never saved to begin with, it does not logically entail that ALL believers who depart from the faith were never saved to begin with. Do you believe that just because SOME chickens lay brown eggs, therefore ALL chickens must lay brown eggs? Yes or no? This shows the logical weakness of your held conclusion. Furthermore, you have neglected to explain how it is possible for an unbeliever who never had faith to begin with, to apostatize and fall away from the faith that he/she never possessed. It is impossible for an unsaved person to apostatize. Thus Scripture is replete with warnings to the believer against apostatizing.All the elect endure to the end by Gods grace. Only true believers are the elect in Christ. What you speak of are tares among the wheat (true believers). Pretenders and false professors are apostates and tares among the visible church. And warnings in scripture are to encourage true believers of their leaven and to call to repentance these tares. 1 John 2:19 is obvious that they were NEVER among the elect in Christ. Because if they had been they would’ve remained in the faith. But they were made manifest to the church that they were imposters. Only a tare would take the mark. By promoting loss of salvation, you therefore promote that your works maintains your salvation. There’s no Christ nor gospel in this false teaching
This is an example of parallelism in the Bible and it shows or exemplifies what is said in Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 For everything there is a season...
The majority of the time we don't bother answering fools as it ends up with us stooping to their level which we don't want, but there are occasions when someone must answer and speak the truth.. for everything there is a season, so we must be careful if the Holy Spirit leads us to answer, that we not allow it to devolve, but rather we should speak simply, in a way that's easy to understand. This is the meaning of those two verses.
As for those who don't believe, you can't open their eyes to see the Truth, all you can do is to be there with the Truth when God opens their eyes and hearts.
It's your choice to subject yourself to sinful influences which lead you away from God. You have an opportunity to investigate their clams to see if they are speaking the truth or not (see 1 John 4:1; Isaiah 8:20; Psalms 119:105). That's why we have the Bible (see 2 Timothy 3:16-17); and the Holy Spirit who guides us into all truth (see John 16:13), and convicts the world of sin, of righteousness, and of judgment (v. 8). You have nobody to blame for your choices but yourself (see Proverbs 3:5-7).So consequently “something” is plucking you out of His hand. If your will is being moved to go astray, is there not something or someone influencing your desires?
You're confused. I don't see where I'm agree with you. What John is stating should be clear enough to you.But you said before that it is against the forum rules to state that some believers are not believers. Yet, in 1 John 2:19 this is what it saying and you are agreeing with me. So either you do not agree with the rule entirely or you are contradicting yourself. In short, the verse itself is breaking this rule.
As 1John 2:19 states, those who belong to Christ do endure to the end. As is also stated in Heb 3:14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,In Romans 3, Paul said this as a point of getting initially right with God by seeking forgiveness of their sins by Jesus Christ. Romans 3:1 says, what profit is there of the Jew or circumcision? So Paul was trying to refute the false Pharisee religion that claimed you had to be circumcised to be saved. This is not talking about how we have to endure unto the end in our Sanctification. There are many verses that talk about what we MUST do after coming to Christ. It is not an automatic thing as you suggest. Yes, we do need to be born again and we will have a new heart with new desires, but nowhere does Scripture teach that we do not need to worry about enduring until the end in our faith. There are many commands that Jesus and His followers give us that if you do this.... you are of God and if you do not do such things you are condemned.
For Jesus would never say to us to forgive or we will not be forgiven in Matthew 6:15 if it is just an automatic thing that just happens to all believers. It would be redundant or pointless to say such a thing if what you say is true.
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