Does the fact of Evolution .... (moved)

Hoghead1 · Mar 9, 2016

Well, Dad, if all we need is Scripture, then we sure don't need to listen to you, now do we? Also, just about every idea you are other laity have goes back to the teachings of teh church fathers. Nobody ever goes to Scripture, with a blank mind. You, as are most laity, are looking at it through the lens of your church's teaching, which you take to be unquestionable. If I had a nickel for every time someone tells me they are getting it straight from Scripture and no place else and then ends up citing a teaching of the church fathers, I'd be a filthy rich man.

DogmaHunter · Mar 10, 2016

JoeP222w said:
"Does the fact of Evolution"

There is the fundamental problem. Evolution is not a "fact".

Evolution demonstrably happens.
Common ancestry is a genetic fact.

The theory is what explains those facts.

DogmaHunter · Mar 10, 2016

JoeP222w said:
Darwinian Evolution and Adaptation are not the same thing.

Yes, they are.

If natural selection was true

Natural Selection IS true.
Those best equipped to survive and reproduce, have the highest chance of surviving and reproducing.

How can you even attempt to argue against that mega-obvious concept?

, then the one who rejects the morality of God (the Atheist and the unbeliever) has no reason to not murder their fellow human beings, because their fellow human beings are competition for the food supply (i.e. natural selection).

This makes zero sense.

That's like saying that "because gravity is real, we should jump from some high building".

Evolution theory explains the processes life is inevitably subject to. It does NOT explain or prescribe how we should organize social constructs or how we should treat eachother.

There no definition for morality apart from God and Evolution has no explanation for morality.

Evolution doesn't touch on the subject of morality either.
It just explains how biology works.

Human Beings are the only living creatures who display morality.

That is simply not true.
Every social species has some basic rules concerning acceptable behaviour.

Some may argue that some creatures display morality, but that is just man deceiving himself into thinking that animals display human characteristics

No, it's not.

The Moral Law was given to, and only applies to man.

"Moral Law" like slavery, genocide, infanticide, public executions, stoning of disobedient children, etc...

Thank goodness that we have moved on from such barbaric practices in the secular west.

dad · Mar 11, 2016

Hoghead1 said:
Well, Dad, if all we need is Scripture, then we sure don't need to listen to you, now do we? Also, just about every idea you are other laity have goes back to the teachings of teh church fathers. Nobody ever goes to Scripture, with a blank mind. You, as are most laity, are looking at it through the lens of your church's teaching, which you take to be unquestionable. If I had a nickel for every time someone tells me they are getting it straight from Scripture and no place else and then ends up citing a teaching of the church fathers, I'd be a filthy rich man.

Yes Scripture makes it clear Jesus created us, and that we did not descend from worms.

Hoghead1 · Mar 11, 2016

Yes, Dad, but Scripture also says we are all created out of dust or goopy mud, depending on the translation. The Bible does not give our origins as higher status in any way from that found in evolution. Also, Scripture was never intended to be a geophysical witness, a science book; so of course it doesn't talk abut advanced concepts such as evolution or a heliocentric solar system or a round earth.

AV1611VET · Mar 11, 2016

Hoghead1 said:
Also, Scripture was never intended to be a geophysical witness, a science book; so of course it doesn't talk abut advanced concepts such as evolution or a heliocentric solar system or a round earth.

Why would It?

There are two types of revelation:

General Revelation: the universe.
Specific Revelation: the Bible.

QV Psalm 19.

FreeinChrist · Mar 11, 2016

MOD HAT

This thread is being moved to the Creation & Evolution forum where it is a better fit.

dad · Mar 11, 2016

Hoghead1 said:
Yes, Dad, but Scripture also says we are all created out of dust or goopy mud, depending on the translation.

It says God formed us using dust of the earth. Not that we eventually sprung out of mud with little or no help from Him!

The Bible does not give our origins as higher status in any way from that found in evolution.

Yes, one week Jesus created all that we see, the heavens and earth and life and man kind, and woman. He Personally breathed His life into us after we were formed.

Also, Scripture was never intended to be a geophysical witness, a science book; so of course it doesn't talk abut advanced concepts such as evolution or a heliocentric solar system or a round earth.

I disagree. I think it is so high above low manscience that you just don't recognize the deep truths about those things in Scripture.

Since we are created who much cares about evolution? All evolving was after we were created obviously. The changes coming to life on earth or future 'evolution' will be lightning fast and no accident. Lions will eat grass, and it will not be slow change!

Subduction Zone · Mar 11, 2016

dad said:
It says God formed us using dust of the earth. Not that we eventually sprung out of mud with little or no help from Him!

And if you claim that help was needed from your God then the burden of proof is upon you.

Yes, one week Jesus created all that we see, the heavens and earth and life and man kind, and woman. He Personally breathed His life into us after we were formed.

Since your book uses metaphor, parable and other teaching methods how do you know that your God was using this in Genesis?

I disagree. I think it is so high above low manscience that you just don't recognize the deep truths about those things in Scripture.

And yet you can't support any of the "truths in Scripture" where scientists can support their claims.

Since we are created who much cares about evolution? All evolving was after we were created obviously. The changes coming to life on earth or future 'evolution' will be lightning fast and no accident. Lions will eat grass, and it will not be slow change!

And again the burden of evidence for this claim is upon you. If you want to claim no evolution has occurred you much find evidence for that. We know that you have none.

dad · Mar 11, 2016

Subduction Zone said:
And if you claim that help was needed from your God then the burden of proof is upon you.

Since your book uses metaphor, parable and other teaching methods how do you know that your God was using this in Genesis?

And yet you can't support any of the "truths in Scripture" where scientists can support their claims.

And again the burden of evidence for this claim is upon you. If you want to claim no evolution has occurred you much find evidence for that. We know that you have none.

One cannot deny that in the bible man was formed, and then God gave him life. That is impossible to reconcile with evolution dunnit theories. You may reside in willful unbelief as an atheist or unbeliever, you may not claim the bible does not clearly record a real creation.

Subduction Zone · Mar 11, 2016

dad said:
One cannot deny that in the bible man was formed, and then God gave him life. That is impossible to reconcile with evolution dunnit theories. You may reside in willful unbelief as an atheist or unbeliever, you may not claim the bible does not clearly record a real creation.

Sure one can, it is easy. Why do you even bother making such a nonsensical claim. Here look:

Claiming that God formed man and that he did not evolve is simply a mistranslation of Genesis. Not only will I make that claim, so will countless other Christians.

dad · Mar 11, 2016

Subduction Zone said:
Sure one can, it is easy. Why do you even bother making such a nonsensical claim. Here look:

Claiming that God formed man and that he did not evolve is simply a mistranslation of Genesis. Not only will I make that claim, so will countless other Christians.

Read again for comprehension. If you are talking bible, God first formed man, and then we got life. No possible evolution as creator.

Subduction Zone · Mar 11, 2016

dad said:
Read again for comprehension. If you are talking bible, God first formed man, and then we got life. No possible evolution as creator.

It hardly matters what the Bible says since it has been shown to be wrong. Or at best it has been misinterpreted by literalists.

My comprehension is fine. It is almost that of creationists that have a lack there.

dad · Mar 11, 2016

Subduction Zone said:
It hardly matters what the Bible says since it has been shown to be wrong. Or at best it has been misinterpreted by literalists.

It hardly matters whether you think God's word or Him are right or wrong. For those claiming to believe both, it matters, which was the point. You may pretend you have some evidence without ever posting it all you like. What little you have ever posted was hard core dark religion only.

Subduction Zone · Mar 11, 2016

dad said:
It hardly matters whether you think God's word or Him are right or wrong. For those claiming to believe both, it matters, which was the point. You may pretend you have some evidence without ever posting it all you like. What little you have ever posted was hard core dark religion only.

Correction we are only talking about the Bible here dad, not "God's word" if you want to claim that the Bible is the "word of God" the burden of proof is upon you. Now you may not understand the concept of evidence, that does not mean that others do not have that lack. Your sort of action is also why Christianity is dying around the world. Denial of reality makes it very hard for thinking people to take your religion seriously.

dad · Mar 11, 2016

Subduction Zone said:
Correction we are only talking about the Bible here dad,

Not interested in your opinion of a proven absolute fact. That is settled. Finished. Done. You don't get a vote on that any more than whether there is an sun.

Subduction Zone · Mar 11, 2016

dad said:
Not interested in your opinion of a proven absolute fact. That is settled. Finished. Done. You don't get a vote on that any more than whether there is an sun.

What are you talking about? Surely not the Bible since the many errors in that book were apparent long before the theory of evolution came along. By the way, I did not vote on the fact that there are errors in the Bible. Scientists and others showed that. You can only hide behind your ignorance as a form of defense. It will not convince too many people. In fact one of the reasons that Christianity is starting to die out in so many areas is because of literalists that will not deal with reality.

AV1611VET · Mar 11, 2016

Subduction Zone said:
In fact one of the reasons that Christianity is starting to die out in so many areas is because of literalists that will not deal with reality.

I can assure you literalists have a lot more reality to deal with than non-believers.

2 Kings 6:17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

Hoghead1 · Mar 11, 2016

I don't mean to gang up on you did. But SubductionZone made a very good point. You automatically assume that God dictated Scripture, that everything happens just the way Scripture said it did. That is highly questionable hypothesis from the standpoint of modern biblical studies. Where, then is your evidence? You are simply stating your interpretation of Scripture here. Who says you are correct? I don't accept anything at face value. I am not about to accept anything you say when the sole authority is your own say-so. Bet on that. Let's se some evidence.

Subduction Zone · Mar 11, 2016

AV1611VET said:
I can assure you literalists have a lot more reality to deal with than non-believers.

2 Kings 6:17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

Nope, not even close. And quoting from the Bible only shows that you are removed from reality.

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