Does the fact of Evolution .... (moved)

joshua 1 9 · Mar 6, 2016

ChetSinger said:
Yeah. The wives or their children tended to fight. Btw, that was Deut 17:17.

David was the one that really ran into problems with the children he had from different wives. It does look like the multiple wife thing is not the best way to go.

Hoghead1 · Mar 6, 2016

Stop putting words into my mouth, Dad. I am not talking about the apostles. The Bible warns about false prophets, of which there have been far too many. Jonestown, Waco, Nazi Germany, to name a few.

AV1611VET · Mar 6, 2016

Hoghead1 said:
The Bible warns about false prophets, of which there have been far too many. Jonestown, Waco, Nazi Germany, to name a few.

Mohammad?

Hoghead1 · Mar 6, 2016

Does Mohammad appear to you to be on the same level as cultists and Nazi's? If so, have your vision checked.

AV1611VET · Mar 6, 2016

Hoghead1 said:
Does Mohammad appear to you to be on the same level as cultists and Nazi's? If so, have your vision checked.

Which cultist or Nazi parked a 747 on floors 93-99 of the north tower of the WTC?

Hoghead1 · Mar 6, 2016

You are stereotyping Muslims, AV1611. Many other Muslims have pointed out that there terrorists are seriously deviating from he teachings of Mohammad. Furthermore, you have to deal with the historical fact that Christianity historically has a horrible record about oppression and senseless blood shedding. Now you certainly would not want to pout that trip on every Christian, would you?

AV1611VET · Mar 6, 2016

Hoghead1 said:
You are stereotyping Muslims, AV1611. Many other Muslims have pointed out that there terrorists are seriously deviating from he teachings of Mohammad. Furthermore, you have to deal with the historical fact that Christianity historically has a horrible record about oppression and senseless blood shedding. Now you certainly would not want to pout that trip on every Christian, would you?

Was Mohammad a false prophet, or wasn't he?

You listed some that are considered by others to be Christian.

Now I'm asking you, especially since you now seem to disdain what you think is stereotyping, if Mohammad was a false prophet?

I have a whole list for you, just to see if you're willing to back your talk.

So let's get this answered, eh?

So we can move on to Ellen G. White, et.al.

Hoghead1 · Mar 7, 2016

I thought I made myself clear, AV1611. Maybe I didn't. I think it would definitely be Christian Imperialism and stereotyping at their worst to label Mohammad a false prophet. When I think of false prophets, I generally think of the real baddies, as I indicated, Jonestown, Waco, Hitler, who did consider himself a messianic figure and who often said, "I am simply doing the work of the Lord."

AV1611VET · Mar 7, 2016

Hoghead1 said:
I thought I made myself clear, AV1611. Maybe I didn't. I think it would definitely be Christian Imperialism and stereotyping at their worst to label Mohammad a false prophet. When I think of false prophets, I generally think of the real baddies, as I indicated, Jonestown, Waco, Hitler, who did consider himself a messianic figure and who often said, "I am simply doing the work of the Lord."

I take it you were never told that, following the completion of the Scriptures in AD 96, there are no more prophets?

1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

John the Baptist was the last of the Old Testament prophets.

John the Apostle was the last of the New Testament prophets.

Therefore, anyone coming on the scene claiming to be a prophet of God is construed by us as a false prophet.

Mohammad taught that the redemption of mankind was to be in three stages:

Moses was to take the infidels and convert them to Judaism.
Jesus was to take the infidels and Jews and convert them to Christians.
Mohammad was to take the infidels, Jews and Christians and convert them to Islam.

That's why he was friendly with Christians at first.

But when the Christians accused him of being a false prophet, they paid dearly for it with their lives.

Hoghead1 · Mar 7, 2016

That isn't quite true, AV1611. One recent example is Mrs.. Ellen White, founder of the Seventh Day Adventist Church, who is taken to be a prophet. Also, the term "prophet" has no exact meaning and then has been applied to a wide range of persons, such as Cayce, Nostradamus, etc. Also, the problem al religious have had is that they tend to be Imperialistic, they are right, everyone else is wrong, and infidel and should be put to the sword. Hence, many a Muslim Infidel died at the hands of the Crusaders. If you dared suggest in any way that Calvin had a false doctrine of the Trinity, you would be put to death, as was the case with Michael Servet, whom Calvin had burned. I might add that the Reformers tried to exterminate all Anabaptists and almost succeeded in so doing. Luther, in his "The Jews and their Lies," recommended an extermination policy for German Jews very close to what Hitler carried out. Nevertheless, I do not put Luther, Calvin, or the Reformers on a par with guys like Hitler, Waco, Jim Jones, etc.

AV1611VET · Mar 7, 2016

Hoghead1 said:
Nevertheless, I do not put Luther, Calvin, or the Reformers on a par with guys like Hitler, Waco, Jim Jones, etc.

Suit yourself.

I have a feeling Luther and Calvin and Wesley are all keeping company.

joshua 1 9 · Mar 7, 2016

Hoghead1 said:
You are stereotyping Muslims, AV1611. Many other Muslims have pointed out that there terrorists are seriously deviating from he teachings of Mohammad. Furthermore, you have to deal with the historical fact that Christianity historically has a horrible record about oppression and senseless blood shedding. Now you certainly would not want to pout that trip on every Christian, would you?

Quran 8:12 which says, “When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.”

It certainly sounds like the Quran expects unbelievers to be beheaded and it reads as if this violence is a divine command intended to inspire terror.

FrumiousBandersnatch · Mar 7, 2016

joshua 1 9 said:
Quran 8:12 which says, “When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.”

It certainly sounds like the Quran expects unbelievers to be beheaded and it reads as if this violence is a divine command intended to inspire terror.

I'm sure you can find similarly bloodthirsty commands from God in the bible; the question is, how do you interpret them?

joshua 1 9 · Mar 7, 2016

FrumiousBandersnatch said:
I'm sure you can find similarly bloodthirsty commands from God in the bible; the question is, how do you interpret them?

God is not commanding ME to do any of that. I refused to go to Viet Nam. It is governments that fight wars. The commandments were to Israel as a nation. We are called to peace not war. If people fight it is to defend America or Israel, not to defend God. He does not need our help for that. It is absurd to think that God would need us to fight a war for Him. We do not want to kill infidels as the Muslims do. Although I do not blame them. We want to convert them. Even we want to convert the Muslims that are cutting off people's heads. Even we believe the people who rape 12 year old girls and force them into submission deserve a chance to repent and turn away from their sin and follow after God to serve Him and to follow after His plan and purpose for us and our life.

This is the most basic of all doctrine. Some people call the Bible the Old and the New Testament. This is a reference to the old and the new covenant. WE do not live under the old. We live under the New Testament and the New Covenant with God. This is what you call good old fashion religion. But you got revisionists on the inside and skeptics and scoffers on the outside trying to change all of that.

Even today Israel is fighting for that tiny little piece of land.

ChetSinger · Mar 7, 2016

FrumiousBandersnatch said:
I'm sure you can find similarly bloodthirsty commands from God in the bible; the question is, how do you interpret them?

Not in the New Testament.

FrumiousBandersnatch · Mar 7, 2016

ChetSinger said:
Not in the New Testament.

Ah, OK; so only the New Testament is a guide for Christians?

ChetSinger · Mar 7, 2016

FrumiousBandersnatch said:
Ah, OK; so only the New Testament is a guide for Christians?

For Christians, the New Testament supersedes the old because it contains the New Covenant between God and man. I'm sure you've noticed that Christians haven't been obeying the Law of Moses for almost 2,000 years. That doesn't mean we're without laws, but that Jesus has given us different ones. New ones.

So no, I haven't been commanded by God to forcibly take possession of Canaan as the Israelites once were. And whenever the covenant with Jesus disagrees with the one with Moses, Jesus wins.

I've found some atheists reluctant to accept this. They want to see Christians as bloodthirsty, perhaps so they feel better ignoring Jesus. But the fact is that Jesus and the apostles preached and practiced pacifism, so it's not good Christians who have been bloodthirsty over the years, but bad ones.

AV1611VET · Mar 7, 2016

FrumiousBandersnatch said:
I'm sure you can find similarly bloodthirsty commands from God in the bible; the question is, how do you interpret them?

I certainly don't do it by saying Mohammad is one of God's prophets.

AV1611VET · Mar 7, 2016

FrumiousBandersnatch said:
Ah, OK; so only the New Testament is a guide for Christians?

Sweeping Mohammad under the carpet, are you?

Now that I made a good point with him, you want to change the subject?

Can't say as I blame you.

FrumiousBandersnatch · Mar 7, 2016

AV1611VET said:
Sweeping Mohammad under the carpet, are you?

Now that I made a good point with him, you want to change the subject?

Not really; I was querying comparisons between the Quran and the Bible, and fundamentalist Islam and fundamentalist Christianity. I have no dog in this race.

Does the fact of Evolution .... (moved)

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