Does the Earth Really Move?

[Ebed-Yahweh]

Is the debate between the Geocentric and Heliocentric models of the universe truly over? Your first impulse may be to dismiss this matter out of hand, but perhaps you should ask yourself a few questions before you do so.

Have you ever felt or observed the supposed rotation of the earth? Have you ever felt or observed the earth to move through the heavens?

Do you or do you not observe the sun to rise in the east and set in the west every day?

Is it not true that, in addition to the moon, the planets and the stars all appear to move around the earth? Is the idea that the earth and the planets revolve around the sun a plain observable fact, or is it based on a series of assumptions?

If you are the slightest bit curious about the apparent contradictions between the teachings of modern science and the simple observations of everyday reality, please investigate the following links:

From Copernicanism Through Big Bangism Modern Cosmology’s Model Of The Universe Is Built Solely On ASSUMPTIONS

Exposing The Copernican Deception: The Cataclysmic Impact On Every Field Of Modern Man’s Knowledge

COPERNICANISM AND DARWINISM:INSEPARABLE CONCEPTS HISTORICALLY, PHILOSOPHICALLY, SPIRITUALLY, AND SCIENTIFICALLY

http://www.fixedearth.com/links/sym...ATIONSHIP BETWEEN COPERNICANISM AND DARWINISM

Cosmology and Gravitation

Flower Pattern Discovery

"Virtual" Reality Or Actual Reality: Which Is Science And Which Is Fraud?

NASA's AGENDA: Promoting Copernicanism & Evolutionism

Kabbala VI: Occult Religion & Spurious Science Declare:Six Days And 15 Billion Years Are The Same Time Frame

Small Universe

Links to these webpages and more can be found at www.fixedearth.com

 

[Dark_Lite]

....Oh boy.

And I thought we had enough oddballs around here.

Ever heard of perspective?

Edit:

To make this post actually make sense...

You realize that geocentrism just doesn't work right?

Scientific observation > casual observation.

You can casually observe that air is invisible. You can also therefore conclude that air is an invisible thing. In reality though, it's just too small to see.

 

[Mestel]

Two phrases:

Foucalt's pendulum

CMB Dipole anisotropy.

 

[Dark_Lite]

Two phrases:

Foucalt's pendulum

CMB Dipole anisotropy.

Ah yes. I forgot about the pendulum. They have one somewhere down in the Smithsonian. That thing is awesome.

 

[Mestel]

2 more phrases:

stellar aberration

stellar parallax

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

Coreolus effect.

 

[Richard]

yes it does....

 

[Ebed-Yahweh]

I would ask that you examine some of the links I've provided before automatically refuting the idea. It's not as if I thought it was very likely at first either, but some very interesting points are raised by the articles if you're willing to keep an open mind for a brief amount of time.

 

[Mestel]

******** Attention *********

After reading through some of the links provided I am now dumber than before.


What a load of pure idiocy. It would take several hours of posting to refute this rubbish. To the original poster, buy a book (or several) on astronomy and basic physics.

 

[Ebed-Yahweh]

******** Attention *********

After reading through some of the links provided I am now dumber than before.


What a load of pure idiocy. It would take several hours of posting to refute this rubbish. To the original poster, buy a book (or several) on astronomy and basic physics.

Please be so kind as to provide examples of this supposed 'pure idiocy'. By the way, I have taken college-level astronomy and did pretty well in it.

 

[Mestel]

Earlier I listed several examples of phenomena that you should Google and check out. They are Foucalts Pendulum, CMB Dipole anisotropy, stellar aberration & stellar parallax. There are many others but start there.

 

[rmwilliamsll]

1) One of these religions has accomplished its ends by hiding the fact (until recently!) that today’s supposedly secular cosmology is actually a front for an overtly anti-Christ religion, and that this covert religious agenda disguised as "science" has for centuries been the chief instrument of a supernaturally guided plan for destroying Bible credibility and the Christianity that is dependent upon that credibility.

2) The necessary foundation for this diabolic agenda--as Kabbalist Rabbi Nachmanides recognized three centuries before Copernicus, and as Kabbalist Rabbi Isaac Luria comprehended as soon as Copernicanism was off the launch pad--was that there must be an absolute victory of purely assumptive Copernicanism over the observationally certified Biblical Model of a non-moving Earth.

3) Then, with Copernicanism virtually triumphant after a century and a half, the churches--having bowed to this new g-d of "truth" by accepting an evolved universe and evolved earth from the physical "sciences"--had little fight left in them when the Darwinian Revolution captured the biological "sciences" and presented them with evolved mankind. Evolutionism--not only of the bodies in the universe, but of all life forms including mankind--then rapidly became the new foundation of "knowledge" (HERE). Barely three generations after Darwinism took off, Big Bangism entered the "scientific" camp on cue and provided a universe swarming with evolved Spielbergian and Star Trekian "extraterrestrials". Once the Big Bang Expanding Universe concept took hold in the universities and the media (e.g., Sagan’s "Cosmos" Series), the Kabbala agenda was past third base and heading for the home plate. This universe was of such incomprehensible size (and growing by trillions of miles a year!) that no one would dare try to bring back the Biblical Model of a non-moving Earth! That Model required the stars to go around the Earth nightly and nobody...but nobody... would believe they could do that if they were billions of light year distances away... as "science" has assured all of us ad nauseam that they are....

from: http://www.fixedearth.com/Assumptions.htm

Modern physics is about trusting your thoughts more than your eyes.

 

[thekawasakikid]

Presumably it's also conceivable that Australians do stand on their heads and that the moon is also made of cheese?

 

[Ebed-Yahweh]

Earlier I listed several examples of phenomena that you should Google and check out. They are Foucalts Pendulum, CMB Dipole anisotropy, stellar aberration & stellar parallax. There are many others but start there.

Here's an answer I found to the supposed Foucault's Pendulum proof.

As you can see from above, there is no proof that the earth goes around the sun. Their best attempts at proof have all failed, since each so-called proof can be explained by a Geocentric framework in a rotating universe. One of their best tries was the Foucault Pendulum, but that has been discredited due to the 15 degree variations caused in the pendulum during solar eclipses, which, they realize must come from a force outside the earth rather than being caused by the earth rotating. It was precisely because of the motions of Mars that Brahe was led to posit a Geocentric universe. Brahe had mapped the motions of the planets within 2 arc seconds, an astounding feat for a man of his time. With that evidence, he was able to show that a Geocentric solar system answered the planetary motions as good as or better than a heliocentric one. It was only the suppression of his work by Kepler that prohibited his ideas from gaining prominence.

From The Fallen Star: Relativity meets the Absolute

I'll research the other topics as well as quickly as I can. However, those topics are not examples of 'pure idiocy' from the fixedearth website. Rather they are concepts used by heliocentrists to bolster their viewpoint.

rmwilliamsllThank you for posting that. Allow me to quote something else of interest from Kabbala Part VII The Concept of A Rotating Earth Orbiting the Sun Is Both The Pseudo Scientific Foundation and The Achilles Heel of Modern Kabbala-based Cosmology

Hearken well to this fact: Modern day cosmology exists solely on the Kabbalic principles that Relativism, Big Bangism, and an Expanding Universe define a universe that is 15-16 billion years old and has at least a 12-15 billion light year radius. That is today’s textbook Cosmological Paradigm straight up with no chaser.

These facts follow: 1) That Paradigm could never have been brought to pass without the gradual victory of the Copernican Model of a rotating, orbiting Earth over the Biblical Model of an immovable Earth with the sun going around daily. 2) The Paradigm will crash and burn when the world learns: a) That heliocentricity is merely a mathematical model that proves nothing. b) That there is no observational (i.e., "scientific") proof that the Earth rotates or orbits the sun. c) That the non- moving Biblical model of a stationary Earth can account for all known phenomena. d) That the heliocentricity hypothesis is a necessary assumption for all the layers of deep space hypotheses piled upon it. e) That the now-ruling hypothetical assumption in Cosmology today--the Big Bang Paradigm--is nothing more nor less than the fulfillment by a Theoretical Science Establishment of an Origins Scenario taken directly out of the religion of occult Kabbalism wherein Rabbinic leaders outrank Bible prophets and whose goal for millennia has been the destruction of Christianity. f) That this all boils down to an apocalyptic High Noon Shootout between these two religions that brings about a war (Rev. 17:14) which unmasks Satan’s empire of Babylon and divides the world into his overt worshippers (Rev.13:4) and those who get on God’s side (v.7).

...If one insists that the issue is about "Science" when referring to the mutually exclusive Creation Models of the Kabbala and the Bible, one needs a definition of what "Science" is. All dictionaries agree that the root word of "Science" is the Latin scire which means: "to know". There is one uncomplicated way of knowing something, and that way is to observe it and to note that no matter how many times that something is observed it always does the same thing. Observable and repeatable = Known, and Known = "science". All else invites deception.

There is a foundational premise underlying both the Kabbalic Cosmological Model and the Biblical Cosmological Model. The Foundational Premise of the Kabbalic Cosmological Model is a daily rotating Earth, annually orbiting the sun. The Foundational Premise of the Biblical Cosmological Model is a stationary Earth with the sun going around daily. As world-class astronomer/physicist Sir Fred Hoyle (d.2001) et al admit, "both models explain the phenomena"

So, if the heliocentric Copernician* model can be shown to be false, then the whole evolutionary pseudo-scientific anti-Christ paradigm can be done away with. If such a thing is possible, shouldn't we as Christians at least examine the evidence put forth to see whether the geocentric model can be proven?

*Btw, Nicholas Copernicus was not the first person in history to put forth a heliocentric model. Aristarchus of Samos (310 B.C.-230 B.C.) also put forth this idea to the ancient Greeks. So the Copernician revolution was not as revolutionary as many today believe it was.

 

[PaladinValer]

We have astronaughts out in space who've watched the Earth go around the sun. Game, set, match.

 

[Mestel]

The Allais effect does not occur, a Foucault pendulum does not abruptly shift during eclipse. This is a scientific urban legend perpetuated by the alternative gravity kooks.

Have you noticed the websites are not as much anti-Copernicus as rabidly bigoted against non-Christians.

 

[Ebed-Yahweh]

The Allais effect does not occur, a Foucault pendulum does not abruptly shift during eclipse. This is a scientific urban legend perpetuated by the alternative gravity kooks.

NASA seems to disagree.

In a marathon experiment, Maurice Allais released a Foucault pendulum every 14 minutes - for 30 days and nights -without missing a data point. He recorded the direction of rotation (in degrees) at his Paris laboratory. This energetic show of human endurance happened to overlap with the 1954 solar eclipse. During the eclipse, the pendulum took an unexpected turn, changing its angle of rotation by 13.5 degrees.

..A handful of scientists have since tested Allais' findings, and the results have polarized the publication record:

..."The initial interpretation of the record points to three possibilities," says Dr. David Noever of NASA/Marshall, "A systematic error, a local effect, or the unexplored. To eliminate the first two possibilities, we and several other observers will use different kinds of measuring instruments in a distributed global network of observing stations."

...Eclipsing Speculation
If the scientists do observe the Allais effect, the prevailing question will be "Why does it occur?" So far, explanations have included the anisotropy of space (the condition of having different properties in different directions), gravitational waves, and solar radiation.

From Decrypting the Eclipse A Solar Eclipse, Global Measurements and a Mystery

Unfortunately, I can't seem to locate the results of the worldwide August 11, 1999 Solar Eclipse-Foucault's Pendulum experiment.

This naturalscience.com webpage states:

As for NASA, the scientists won't be ready to release information until they have analysed all the data and then written a paper. A large number of investigators are currently going over the data in some detail: the differences between the various instruments and techniques will have to be reconciled and then treated statistically both locally and globally. This could take a while since 20 institutions worldwide participated in the experiment.

Once NASA's scientific eclipse paper is peer reviewed for publication, science@NASA will write a story discussing the experiment results.

Have you heard of or read the Barbour and Bertotti 1977 "Gravity and Inertia in a Machian Framework," Il Nuovo Cimento B, 38:1? There's supposed to be information concerning the Focault's Pendulum in the paper, but I haven't been able to find it on the internet yet. There's also something about (Ernst) Mach's Principle related to this. I'll let you know when I get a handle on it (Yahweh-willing).

Have you noticed the websites are not as much anti-Copernicus as rabidly bigoted against non-Christians.

How would you have them feel toward religions based on works such as the Talmud and the Kabbalah which are rabidly anti-Christ?

 

[Ebed-Yahweh]

We have astronaughts out in space who've watched the Earth go around the sun. Game, set, match.

No, we don't. From the vantage point of Earth orbit or from the surface of the moon, the sun would still appear to move in relation to the Earth, even if the heliocentric model were true.

 

[Mestel]

NASA seems to disagree.

The Allais effect was deemed worth investigating. By the way the huge shift you initially referred to was known on subsequent attempts to measure any effect to be spurious.

http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/ast06aug99_1.htm

Unfortunately, I can't seem to locate the results of the worldwide August 11, 1999 Solar Eclipse-Foucault's Pendulum experiment.

What a shock. Do you know why? Because no effect was found. This is not science but urban legend material.

 

[Mestel]

No, we don't. From the vantage point of Earth orbit or from the surface of the moon, the sun would still appear to move in relation to the Earth, even if the heliocentric model were true.

Tell me how a satellite trained to track one particular star not have to move (except for tiny corrections) if according to you they are rotating around a fixed Earth evry 23hrs 56 mins 4 sec.

Same for the SOHO observatory looking at the Sun. How come it doesn't have to pan across the sky to keep up with a supposed orbiting Sun. My advice is "lay off the crack!"