Does the Church in America Need Change?

[maintenance man]

Francis Chan has a new book out called, “Letters to the Church,” in which he makes this statement: “God designed the Church to be much more than what the majority of us experience in America. There are many of us who believe this and want change.” He goes on to make his case. His main point is that church in America has become a consumer product – some attend on Sunday to consume their worship experience and don’t participate in the Church at all.

Francis starts his book by asking this question:

“Imagine you find yourself stranded on a deserted island with nothing but a copy of the Bible. You have no experience with Christianity whatsoever, and all you know about the Church will come from your reading of the Bible. How would you imagine a church to function?”

Here is the answer I came up with:

Church would be a lifestyle – an ongoing experience continuously connected to all other church members. Each church member would look out for all the other church members and help one another in any way possible. Praise and prayer to God would be never ending – a part of every moment of every day. One day a week would be devoted to the worship of God. Music and singing would start a worship service followed by serious Bible study lead by a mature student of the Word. Communal prayer would follow. A great meal would come next that would include communion. Fellowship would follow the meal which would lead to church members discovering the needs of others so that they could make plans to help. The week would be filled with service to God by serving others, followed by a full day of worship. This pattern would be never ending.

Do you believe the church needs major change?

How would you answer the question Francis is asking?

 

[Sabertooth]

The Church in melting-pot America is so diverse that a single prescription would not be effective. That is why we have/need the Holy Spirit.

I can see this person's advice being appropriate in many places, but he should target those places (or, at least, the movements that they are derived from).

 

[Black Evangelical]

of course the church in america needs to change. most of what we see is a consumer product a pale imitation of what it means to be a disciple of christ. most people who are church goers cannot answer simple questions that are at the core of the christian faith. let alone choose to live by the bible's principles.

 

[Uber Genius]

Anyone old enough to remember the Jesus Movement will recognize a lot of the same themes drove a shift in culture toward home groups.

Wolfgang Simson articulated this idea well in a book called, "Houses That Change The World."

Similarly Yonggi Cho wrote a book in the early 1980s called "Successful Home Cell Groups," discussing ecclessiology.

If we are called to be ambassadors of Christ then one must ask what intellectual, emotional, and spiritual attributes need to be obtained to become Christlike given where we currently are in those domains.

Then we must ask how had my church helped me understand those goals, evaluate my current maturity, and tranform my walk?

The problem is that Chan's disillusionment could have been eliminated and a path toward progress elucidated in a one-hour discussion. He strangely seems to think that no one has discovered this problem of Christian entertainment.

It is a phenomenon widely discussed since the 1970s.

Has he not heard of LAbri? Or Franscis Schaeffer?

But the reason churches don't change is because the change required means handing over power and responsibility to lay people. I have seen great lip-service given to home groups but very little effort to drive people to take their discipleship and home groups seriously.

Perhaps mellinals will be the ones to take up the cause and revolt against the "Field of Dreams" (If we build it they will come) model and reinvent a vibrant home church movement? Nah...not as long as there are video games to be played.

 

[A_Thinker]

Francis Chan has a new book out called, “Letters to the Church,” in which he makes this statement: “God designed the Church to be much more than what the majority of us experience in America. There are many of us who believe this and want change.” He goes on to make his case. His main point is that church in America has become a consumer product – some attend on Sunday to consume their worship experience and don’t participate in the Church at all.

Francis starts his book by asking this question:

“Imagine you find yourself stranded on a deserted island with nothing but a copy of the Bible. You have no experience with Christianity whatsoever, and all you know about the Church will come from your reading of the Bible. How would you imagine a church to function?”

Here is the answer I came up with:

Church would be a lifestyle – an ongoing experience continuously connected to all other church members. Each church member would look out for all the other church members and help one another in any way possible. Praise and prayer to God would be never ending – a part of every moment of every day. One day a week would be devoted to the worship of God. Music and singing would start a worship service followed by serious Bible study lead by a mature student of the Word. Communal prayer would follow. A great meal would come next that would include communion. Fellowship would follow the meal which would lead to church members discovering the needs of others so that they could make plans to help. The week would be filled with service to God by serving others, followed by a full day of worship. This pattern would be never ending.

Do you believe the church needs major change?

How would you answer the question Francis is asking?

The church always needs growth.

There are some American christians who lives are similar to what Chan describes. Others, not so much perhaps ...

 

[mukk_in]

I believe that it was the late Richard Halverson, Chaplain of the US Senate who said, "In the beginning, the church was a fellowship of men and women centered on the living Christ. Then the church moved to Greece where it became a philosophy. Then it moved to Rome, where it became an institution. Next, it moved to Europe, where it became a culture. And, finally it moved to America, where it became an enterprise. " I always thought that it was an accurate depiction of the state of the church in America (having preached there for some years). We need less church and more Christ. Peace in Christ.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Wrong forum. Sorry.

 

[Not David]

It needs an unification and people need to stop thinking their individual opinion is what Christianity is about.

 

[Elaine1960!!]

Anyone old enough to remember the Jesus Movement will recognize a lot of the same themes drove a shift in culture toward home groups.

Wolfgang Simson articulated this idea well in a book called, "Houses That Change The World."

Similarly Yonggi Cho wrote a book in the early 1980s called "Successful Home Cell Groups," discussing ecclessiology.

If we are called to be ambassadors of Christ then one must ask what intellectual, emotional, and spiritual attributes need to be obtained to become Christlike given where we currently are in those domains.

Then we must ask how had my church helped me understand those goals, evaluate my current maturity, and tranform my walk?

The problem is that Chan's disillusionment could have been eliminated and a path toward progress elucidated in a one-hour discussion. He strangely seems to think that no one has discovered this problem of Christian entertainment.

It is a phenomenon widely discussed since the 1970s.

Has he not heard of LAbri? Or Franscis Schaeffer?

But the reason churches don't change is because the change required means handing over power and responsibility to lay people. I have seen great lip-service given to home groups but very little effort to drive people to take their discipleship and home groups seriously.

Perhaps mellinals will be the ones to take up the cause and revolt against the "Field of Dreams" (If we build it they will come) model and reinvent a vibrant home church movement? Nah...not as long as there are video games to be played.

 

[Sabertooth]

We are one Body made of many parts. Spirit-led diversity needs to be allowed to flourish, but not animosity. We are promised ultimate convergence in 1 John 3:2-3.

Nobody who has experienced it wants to go back to a theocracy... (The Thearchy will be way cooler! )

 

[Elaine1960!!]

Anyone old enough to remember the Jesus Movement will recognize a lot of the same themes drove a shift in culture toward home groups.

Wolfgang Simson articulated this idea well in a book called, "Houses That Change The World."

Similarly Yonggi Cho wrote a book in the early 1980s called "Successful Home Cell Groups," discussing ecclessiology.

If we are called to be ambassadors of Christ then one must ask what intellectual, emotional, and spiritual attributes need to be obtained to become Christlike given where we currently are in those domains.

Then we must ask how had my church helped me understand those goals, evaluate my current maturity, and tranform my walk?

The problem is that Chan's disillusionment could have been eliminated and a path toward progress elucidated in a one-hour discussion. He strangely seems to think that no one has discovered this problem of Christian entertainment.

It is a phenomenon widely discussed since the 1970s.

Has he not heard of LAbri? Or Franscis Schaeffer?

But the reason churches don't change is because the change required means handing over power and responsibility to lay people. I have seen great lip-service given to home groups but very little effort to drive people to take their discipleship and home groups seriously.

Perhaps mellinals will be the ones to take up the cause and revolt against the "Field of Dreams" (If we build it they will come) model and reinvent a vibrant home church movement? Nah...not as long as there are video games to be played.

I recently read a book entitled So, You Don't Want To Go To Church Anymore, By Wayne Jacobsen. It was very enlightening ad to how the church universal is failing it's congregants and the reemergence of home churches.
I am still that point where I am tired of church. The church is sick and in need of revival. Reviving meaning that it was once alive and is now dead. I have come to these forums seeking hope for a hurting life.

 

[maintenance man]

Wrong forum. Sorry.

I’m new here. I struggled with where to put this. What would be your suggestion?

 

[chevyontheriver]

I’m new here. I struggled with where to put this. What would be your suggestion?

Well, since I am non-non-denominational I don't know if my suggestion would be appropriate here. I posted something by mistake, only discovering that I posted in the non-denominational forum after the fact. I don't mean to intrude.

 

[Elaine1960!!]

It's confusing when we are new. I am escaping Facebook and trying to grow spiritually. I think you did just fine.

 

[ToBeLoved]

It's confusing when we are new. I am escaping Facebook and trying to grow spiritually. I think you did just fine.

CF is much better than FB. Good choice

 

[maintenance man]

The Church in melting-pot America is so diverse that a single prescription would not be effective. That is why we have/need the Holy Spirit.

I tend tend to agree with the idea there is no one-size-fits all church.

Francis seems to want to take the church back to the New Testament church, which is fine in spirit, but the world we live in is a far different place - thanks largely to the manipulation of the devil - I think diversity is needed in today's world.

Still I would like to see all followers of Jesus Christ unified in some way.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Francis seems to want to take the church back to the New Testament church, which is fine in spirit, but the world we live in is a far different place - thanks largely to the manipulation of the devil - I think diversity is needed in today's world.

Still I would like to see all followers of Jesus Christ unified in some way.

All the followers of Jesus Christ are unified in their belief that He is Savior and Lord.

 

[Halbhh]

I tend tend to agree with the idea there is no one-size-fits all church.

Francis seems to want to take the church back to the New Testament church, which is fine in spirit, but the world we live in is a far different place - thanks largely to the manipulation of the devil - I think diversity is needed in today's world.

Still I would like to see all followers of Jesus Christ unified in some way.

We are in Christ. Those who really believe.

 

[Uber Genius]

I recently read a book entitled So, You Don't Want To Go To Church Anymore, By Wayne Jacobsen. It was very enlightening ad to how the church universal is failing it's congregants and the reemergence of home churches.
I am still that point where I am tired of church. The church is sick and in need of revival. Reviving meaning that it was once alive and is now dead. I have come to these forums seeking hope for a hurting life.

Welcome.

After teaching Alpha classes (Basic Christianity for those outside the church), doing prison ministry, doing teen ministry, leading discipleship, and teaching occasionally Sunday mornings at my local church (400 attendees), I had a large number false accusations by several assistant pastors that were quite frankly as bizarre and unsupported as the claims about Kavanaugh. As a result I left the church for a period of 6 years.

I am back involved now for a couple years. Some of the pastors that drove me out have asked for my forgiveness for handling the matters poorly. The false accusers were, as they always are, found out and kicked out. But not before damage was done to many lay leaders. Point is God allows much suffering in our lives but provides his goodness in rare ways that require much contemplation.

I have had over $550,000 stolen from me. I had a wife with undiagnosed mental illness who tormented me continually throughout a 30-year marriage until she demanded a divorce, and then stalked me for months until I hired a lawyer and had to threat legal action. I have been fired when I was number one in sales in the country so they could steal my commissions.

These are but a fraction of the suffering that I have endured. But God is good.

Elaine I will pray that God show his goodness in your life in an enormous way.

God has sent me someone who is the love of my life. For the first time in my life someone (besides my parents and my kids) genuinely loves me.

Pray for that God bring his goodness and healing into your life and watch what he does.

Bless you.

 

[eleos1954]

Francis Chan has a new book out called, “Letters to the Church,” in which he makes this statement: “God designed the Church to be much more than what the majority of us experience in America. There are many of us who believe this and want change.” He goes on to make his case. His main point is that church in America has become a consumer product – some attend on Sunday to consume their worship experience and don’t participate in the Church at all.

Francis starts his book by asking this question:

“Imagine you find yourself stranded on a deserted island with nothing but a copy of the Bible. You have no experience with Christianity whatsoever, and all you know about the Church will come from your reading of the Bible. How would you imagine a church to function?”

Here is the answer I came up with:

Church would be a lifestyle – an ongoing experience continuously connected to all other church members. Each church member would look out for all the other church members and help one another in any way possible. Praise and prayer to God would be never ending – a part of every moment of every day. One day a week would be devoted to the worship of God. Music and singing would start a worship service followed by serious Bible study lead by a mature student of the Word. Communal prayer would follow. A great meal would come next that would include communion. Fellowship would follow the meal which would lead to church members discovering the needs of others so that they could make plans to help. The week would be filled with service to God by serving others, followed by a full day of worship. This pattern would be never ending.

Do you believe the church needs major change?

How would you answer the question Francis is asking?

I would say you perhaps should/could put forth your "ideas" to the church you currently attend. There are many many denominations and beliefs and they organize their activities, services etc. based on different things.

Best to keep it such as it is.