Does the Bible teach works must follow God's grace as a part of our salvation?

[SBC]

You don’t love your neighbor as you love yourself.....if I slap you,will you offer me the other cheek. If I drive my car through your front yard ,will you offer me the back yard?

WHY are YOU speaking FOR ME, what is FALSE?

Where have I once claimed I do not love my neighbor as myself?

The ONLY THING I am required to OFFER YOU for your POOR behavior IS forgiveness for YOUR trespass AGAINST me.

Can You explain what the Holy Spirit is doing IN YOU, while Your OLD MAN prevails and continues to SIN?

God Bless,
SBC

 

[SBC]

It is the born again Believer that was sleeping with his Mother or maybe Stepmother that was a member of Paul’s Corinthian Church

Scriptural reference?

God Bless,
SBC

 

[SBC]

Your post covers too much ground.....one accusation at a time please!

You saying to me:
You don't love your neighbor as yourself...
IS an accusation.

It is an accusation, SINCE I have never said such a thing.

Me ASKING you questions ABOUT WHAT YOU HAVE SAID for yourself, are NOT accusations.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

You saying to me:
You don't love your neighbor as yourself...
IS an accusation.

It is an accusation, SINCE I have never said such a thing.

Me ASKING you questions ABOUT WHAT YOU HAVE SAID for yourself, are NOT accusations.

God Bless,
SBC

Did not mean to offend...it won’t happen again.i guarantee
It...goodbye and God bless!

 

[SBC]

Blood Bought 1953,

How or Why is this Scripture NOT TRUE, according to you?

I am not "accusing you of sinning".
I am acknowledging YOU claim to be born of God....AND you claim to Continue to Sin...
As YOU SAID, every hour of every day, YOU commit Sin.

1 John 3:9
WHOSOEVER is born OF God doth not commit sin;
For His seed remaineth in him;
And
he CANNOT SIN,
BECAUSE he IS born OF God.

?

God Bless,
SBC

 

[SBC]

Did not mean to offend...it won’t happen again.i guarantee
It...goodbye and God bless!

Thank you. I have no problem of standing for WHAT I do say. But I have no DEFENSE for what I do not say.

I simply wonder WHY others can not provide Scriptureal Validation for WHAT THEY CLAIM FOR THEMSELVES.

Why do you think that is?

How does a man CLAIM to be Born OF God, and Still Commit Sin, when Scripture says THEY CANNOT?

God Bless,
SBC

 

[amariselle]

Scriptural reference?

God Bless,
SBC

1 Corinthians 5

 

[SBC]

1 Corinthians 5

Thanks for you input, However his comment was those born of God, was one sleeping with his mother.

You give a reference to a Scripture that DOES NOT apply to one born of God.

Paul begins 1 Corinthians speaking TO specific people in Corinth,

1 Cor 1:2.... of those Sanctified in Christ.

However there are others in the same crowd, WHO ARE NOT Sanctified in Christ, and Paul also speaks to them specific.

1 Cor 2:3

And Paul continues speaking to the carnal minded, NOT SANCTIFIED, about what he has heard of their fornication.

Jesus' teaching, Jesus' preaching, Pauls' teaching, Pauls' preaching, ANY ministers teaching and preaching.....

HAS a MIXED audience of listeners.
Some believe, Some don't, Some have submitted, Some haven't, Some have been forgiven and Have the Holy Spirit, Some have not become forgiven nor received the Holy Spirit.

Being in the Crowd, Listening, Does not Reveal WHO IS, and WHO IS NOT born again.
Churches then, as Churches are today....
Full of both....the Saved and Born Again...
And
The UNSAVED who Have NOT become born of God.
The Preacher simply address BOTH.
The INDIVIDUAL should know which preaching applies to him, and which does not.

Blood Bought 53 was incorrect saying that it was born again believers being admonished
For fornication. THAT was directed toward, men NOT born again.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[amariselle]

Thanks for you input, However his comment was those born of God, was one sleeping with his mother.

You give a reference to a Scripture that DOES NOT apply to one born of God.

Paul begins 1 Corinthians speaking TO specific people in Corinth,

1 Cor 1:2.... of those Sanctified in Christ.

However there are others in the same crowd, WHO ARE NOT Sanctified in Christ, and Paul also speaks to them specific.

1 Cor 2:3

And Paul continues speaking to the carnal minded, NOT SANCTIFIED, about what he has heard of their fornication.

Jesus' teaching, Jesus' preaching, Pauls' teaching, Pauls' preaching, ANY ministers teaching and preaching.....

HAS a MIXED audience of listeners.
Some believe, Some don't, Some have submitted, Some haven't, Some have been forgiven and Have the Holy Spirit, Some have not become forgiven nor received the Holy Spirit.

Being in the Crowd, Listening, Does not Reveal WHO IS, and WHO IS NOT born again.
Churches then, as Churches are today....
Full of both....the Saved and Born Again...
And
The UNSAVED who Have NOT become born of God.
The Preacher simply address BOTH.
The INDIVIDUAL should know which preaching applies to him, and which does not.

Blood Bought 53 was incorrect saying that it was born again believers being admonished
For fornication. THAT was directed toward, men NOT born again.

God Bless,
SBC

1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,

5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. - 1 Corinthians 5:1-5

The individual spoken of in these verses was saved. And as others have noted, was eventually welcomed back into fellowship.

1 But I determined this with myself, that I would not come again to you in heaviness.

2 For if I make you sorry, who is he then that maketh me glad, but the same which is made sorry by me?

3 And I wrote this same unto you, lest, when I came, I should have sorrow from them of whom I ought to rejoice; having confidence in you all, that my joy is the joy of you all.

4 For out of much affliction and anguish of heart I wrote unto you with many tears; not that ye should be grieved, but that ye might know the love which I have more abundantly unto you.

5 But if any have caused grief, he hath not grieved me, but in part: that I may not overcharge you all.

6 Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.

7 So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.

8 Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.

9 For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things.

10 To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;

11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices. - 2 Corinthians 2:1-11

In regard to your claim that 1 Corinthians 5 was not written concerning the admonishment of an actual born again believer, when you understand the context of 1 Corinthians and who this Epistle is written to, you can see that is exactly what is being dealt with.

1 Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;

5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;

6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:

7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. - 1 Corinthians 1:1-11

1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? - 1 Corinthians 3:1-3

Concerning the restoration of a believer to fellowship, consider also Galatians 6:1-2

1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

The fact that such things can and do occur among born again, sanctified believers is precisely why Paul writes regarding how to deal with such things and how to restore a brother or sister in Christ to fellowship.

So, we can see when we read 1 Corinthians in context that Paul was indeed addressing a church of born again, sanctified brethren. Believers in Christ Jesus.

 

[Sheep dog]

Just saying;
Rev 13:8
The Lamb; ie Jesus; was slain, during; the time the foundation of the earth was being created, before mankind was created.

Yes that was God's plan all along. The Lamb wasn't slain until around 30 AD.

Isa 14: 12,13,14,
Lucifer; during the time of the creation of the earth, thought in his heart, that he could rise above God;
Making Lucifer the First Liar ~
Making Lucifer the First Murderer ~

What are you trying to say?

Ie.
No one can rise above God....the Lie
Anyone speaking or thinking against the Word of God is a murderer, that kills the Word of God.

Are you talking to me suggesting I'm saying something against the Bible? If so why?

The Word of God, later revealed, by the Name Jesus, has always been the Word of God, whether or not His Name was Known.

The Word of God is First and Before ALL things, ie. Nothing existed without the Word of God .... ie All things were Spoken By Gods Word, that they would Appear.....also by the Power of God, whose Name is Christ.
1 Cor 2: 24

Jesus being revealed on earth, and while on earth revealed as the Christ; IS the same,
Everlasting Word of God, regardless of when man Knows His Name....

He is the Same Who Saved the souls of men in the OT, who believed in His Word.

Ah your point. Jesus did nothing in the OT as you seem to reference it. Jesus did nothing until He until He took up the form of man.

NT men, learned His Name, and SAW Him being crucified. Yet He was murdered from before mankind was created.

No, but that was God's plan.

Men seeing him in the likeness as a man, was a fulfillment of a promise God gave to man, who had appealed to God, to let them SEE God. It was showing men, what had already happened, TO; teach the LOST, ie the Jews who had fallen away from following after their "fathers", Abraham, Isaac & Jacob....while also introducing Gentiles into the fold of Hearing and Learing About the Word of God, that they also might trust and believe.

Get a hold of yourself. You said before creation and now say to appeal to man. Which is it?

God Bless,
SBC

Thanks and may the blessing return 100 fold.

 

[Sheep dog]

For MANKIND ~
Everything hinges on what a man can DO, to CAUSE his Corrupt Flesh Body, to become Acceptable to God;
SO THAT, the MAN, can FOREVER BE ALIVE WiTH GOD.

It's not about our corrupt body. It's never reborn. So your focus is wrong. Recommend Jn 3.

THE ONLY thing MAN CAN DO ~ IS:
Hear ~ Believe ~ Trust, the Word of God!
AND TELL HIM!!

A mans REASONABLE SERVICE TO GOD....
IS a man first believing HIS OWN BODY IS CORRUPT, and it is the individual MAN HIMSELF, who must decide that....AND decide IF HE chooses to DO something about it.

THE Word of God, notifies the man of WHAT TO DO, and HOW to DO IT.

It ALL HINGES on the individuals CHOICE to
Hear, Believe, Trust....GOD.

The WHAT....is the man choosing TO:
Rom 12:1

For the man to present HIS OWN BODY, as a LIVING SACRIFICE, holy and acceptable TO GOD.

THAT IS: mankinds REASONABLE SERVICE TO GOD.

THAT IS: Gods desire for ANY man to fulfill.

Thereafter ~ God Himself, does ALL of the Work WITHIN the man.
The SAME, has been from the beginning of mankind.

Painting the outside of the cup doesn't change the interior or contents.

THE OP ~ WORKS, PART of Salvation?
No.

Salvation IS strictly A man declaring in his own heart; He:
BELIEVES and TRUSTS God;
And chooses to SUBMIT TO the Word of God.

That IS; the Salvation God has provided for ALL....and WHEN A MAN, accepts claiming His own Salvation....it is a irrevocable, Forever Gift from God.

MUST A MAN DO WORKS, thereafter? No.
CAN A MAN DO WORKS, thereafter? Yes.

The KEY is a MAN CAN ONLY DO WORKS, thereafter. Meaning: A man WITHOUT having accepted Salvation; can DO NOTHING to PLEASE GOD. And a man WHO HAS accepted SALVATION, has already Pleased God.

ANY WORKS thereafter that a man DOES DO,
IS two FOLD;
1) Works a man DOES that ALSO pleases God.....Glorifies His Name....IN HEAVEN,
AND before the eyes of natural men on earth.
2) Works a man DOES that Glorifies Gods Name on earth, IS REWARDED, BY GOD.
Rewards, given specifically TO THAT MAN.

So NO, Works are NOT PART of a mans Salvation.....However a man can NOT DO Works FOR GODS GLORY, until a man HAS received Salvation.

God Bless,
SBC

Amen to your last paragraph.

 

[Sheep dog]

Justified BY WORKS?

Of course a man IS JUSTIFIED by Works.

If this is true Jesus died for nothing.

 

[SBC]

Yes that was God's plan all along. The Lamb wasn't slain until around 30 AD.

Who was a murderer from the beginning ?
Who did he murder?

John 8:44

God Bless,
SBC

 

[Sheep dog]

TRUE!



HUH? You quote a Scrpture that reveals a TRUTH......

THEN give a comment that SUPERSEDES the TRUTH!

Why? Why is the TRUTH NOT sufficient?
Why? Why are you teaching, a man born of God, continues to SIN?

The Scriptures you just quoted say the COMPLETE OPPOSITE.

Please explain your teaching of superseding Scripture. Thanks.

God Bless,
SBC

Some understand what is being conveyed, others don't. This is especially true for those spoon fed people who ignore the rest of the Bible when considering the meaning of a verse.

 

[Sheep dog]

Who was a murderer from the beginning ?
Who did he murder?

John 8:44

God Bless,
SBC

No connection for me.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If this is true Jesus died for nothing.

Don’t worry. He believes as you do.

SBC said elsewhere on CF,

“After I called on the Lord, and CONFESSED, I believed in Him, desired to be faithful to Him only, ask for forgiveness of ALL of my SINS AGAINST GOD. He forgave ALL of my SINS AGAINST HIM....once and forever.
If a saved and born again person watches inappropriate content, or drinks too much - DOES THAT Glorify God? No.
Does that MEAN that person - forsakes God, stops believing in God, stops being faithful to God? IF NOT - HOW is that man, STANDING AGAINST GOD? No.
It simply means he is a weak person, and NEVER learned how to utilize the POWER of God within him.
So - further, say a mans cheats on his wife - Do you think the man SINNED?
And would that man then need to ask God to forgiven him?
God Bless,
SBC”​

Source:
Does Holy Spirit Convict Sin Once Saved

SBC also said on CF,

“Everyone is a sinner, even after being forgiven the SIN doesn't disappear, it was forgiven.”​

Source:
Does Holy Spirit Convict Sin Once Saved

 

[SBC]

[QUOTE="Sheep dog, post: 72150540, member:

Jesus did nothing in the OT.[/QUOTE]

I disagree. I find Jesus DID plenty in the OT.
Jesus - the Word of God
Christ - the Power of God

His NAME was kept Secret, from OT men,
Yet God Spoke, and His Word came forth out from God.
Yet Gods Power, Effected His Word to be accomplished.

Gen 1: 2 Gods Spirit...
Gen 1: 3 God said...

Col 1: 17
He is before all things, and by Him all things consist.

So are you saying HE DID NOT EXIST before the OT?

God Bless,
SBC

 

[Sheep dog]

Posting verses in Scripture is not goading or flaming. I am using Scripture to attack the belief and not you. Nowhere did I say in my post that I am attacking you personally. Please show me where I stated where I was referring to you specifically with my quote of Scripture? Please show me. If not, then you are falsely accusing me here (Which is not right).

When verses of condemnation appear outside of the conversation they're goading and flaming. This is abusing Scripture to gain compliance.

 

[Sheep dog]

Don’t worry. He believes as you do.

Don't think so.

 

[SBC]

Don’t worry. He believes as you do.

SBC said elsewhere on CF,

“After I called on the Lord, and CONFESSED, I believed in Him, desired to be faithful to Him only, ask for forgiveness of ALL of my SINS AGAINST GOD. He forgave ALL of my SINS AGAINST HIM....once and forever.
If a saved and born again person watches inappropriate content, or drinks too much - DOES THAT Glorify God? No.
Does that MEAN that person - forsakes God, stops believing in God, stops being faithful to God? IF NOT - HOW is that man, STANDING AGAINST GOD? No.
It simply means he is a weak person, and NEVER learned how to utilize the POWER of God within him.
So - further, say a mans cheats on his wife - Do you think the man SINNED?
And would that man then need to ask God to forgiven him?
God Bless,
SBC”​

Source:
Does Holy Spirit Convict Sin Once Saved

SBC also said on CF,

“Everyone is a sinner, even after being forgiven the SIN doesn't disappear, it was forgiven.”​

Source:
Does Holy Spirit Convict Sin Once Saved

That is correct.
God forgives a Gentiles SIN for not believing in Him. God forgives a Gentiles SIN of corrupting His soul.

For a short period of Time after Jesus was bodily on earth, Jews believed their SIN was forgiven, BUT THEN REVERTED, as Jews are today, constantly asking for Forgiveness, of their SIN, according to WHAT JEWISH LAW, calls SIN.

And you? Are you constantly asking for forgiveness according to WHAT JEWISH LAW, calls SIN.

I don't. I am not a Jew, under Jewish Law.
I asked GOD for Forgiveness of MY SIN AGAINST HIM. MY SIN AGAINST HIM IS FORGIVEN. I CAN NOT EVER AGAIN SIN AGAINST GOD.

God simply directs me to FORGIVE MEN of their TRESPASSES AGAINST ME. And I CAN FORGIVE MEN of their Trespasses AGAINST ME. And NOTHING teaches I have to ASK God to forgive my trespasses against men.
Scripture simple teaches "IF" I forgive men of their trespasses AGAINST ME, He will also forgive my trespasses Against men.

I have NO POWER whatsoever to FORGIVE ANY MAN OF SIN. Maybe Jews do, Maybe you do....However Scripture teaches ONLY God forgives SIN.

Perhaps you think FORGIVEN SIN, VANISHES!
Scripture doesn't say so, and neither Have I.
So YES, EVERY man is born IN SIN, COMMITS SIN, IS A SINNER....

And SOME people confess their SIN to God, become Forgiven, Have their SINS COVERED....see, NOT REMOVED....Forgiven and Covered, to be remembered NO MORE.....And RECEIVE HIS POWER to REMAIN FREE FROM SIN and Sin NO MORE.

And then SOME people confess their SIN to God, become forgiven....and Continue to SIN, so they say, and constantly, apparently have to notify God His Forgiveness FAILED, and they Require MORE Forgiveness....

I have A Great God, Whose Word is TRUE.
I do not HAVE a wishy washy God, who says I'm forgiven.....well, not really, try again.
Or he accountes me as righteous....well, not really, try again.

And BTW - I have given no indication that I am worried about who believes as I do.
Christ Jesus desires men to believe as He does.

Apparently some think, Jesus saying your sins are forgiven, only meant momentarily....and go and sin no more, was simply a passing suggestion, not a fact.


God Bless,
SBC