Does the Bible teach that obedience is expected after salvation?

Frogster · Feb 10, 2015

Biblicist2 said:
Froggy, with the part that I have placed in bold, all I can say is that this type of thinking would be as foreign to the Scriptures as one could possibly hope to get; you could probably start a new religion.

It is elementalism, the a.b.c.'s. Paul called law life that in gal 4:3, the worlds crude notions..or basic principles, stoicheion.

Chapter 4 is talking about as a child under governors. Puppies and children need abedience training school, but those who grow in the Lord, should seek the higher levels off faith, and power.

So the frog is Biblical...

Gal 4:3 In the same way we also, when we were children, were enslaved to the elementary principles of the world.

Frogster · Feb 10, 2015

Svt4Him said:
Nope you don't then you go write a book about the experience then start a denomination that is anti-drinking beer (probably US beer) then travel about how you're life has changed because you stopped drinking beer, then pick up a habit of drinking hard alcohol under the table then start a TV ministry while owning stocks in a beer company.

Could just be me who thinks this though.

Yes, when i read the part about not buying the beer, I thought to myself, ..

So what, he did not by the beer, ok fine, what is the big deal? All proves my point, about an obedience centered life, there is kind of a so what about it, big deal. It is not that deep really, to garner duch attention.

Obedience centered lives, are man centered ones, all eyes on ones behavior, rather than Christ and his finished work, and present power.

razzelflabben · Feb 10, 2015

Frogster said:
It is elementalism, the a.b.c.'s. Paul called law life that in gal 4:3, the worlds crude notions..or basic principles, stoicheion.

Chapter 4 is talking about as a child under governors. Puppies and children need abedience training school, but those who grow in the Lord, should seek the higher levels off faith, and power.

So the frog is Biblical...

not sure you are as biblical as you want to presume. Look what Hebrews 6 says the elementary teachings are...Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God,
...repentance from our "acts" that lead to death aka sin is not only an elementary teaching but is a requirement for the totality of the elementary teaching. IOW's repentance means turning away from, going the other way...if we are going away from our sins, how is it that obedience is a bad thing? Especially given that repentance is an elementary teaching that leads to salvation in the first place. It is not possible to turn from our sin and still cling to them at the same time.

Or maybe you are just claiming that being a puppy isn't an elementary teaching, and yet as I already pointed out to you, discipline is a necessary part of being a child of the King according to scripture. IOW's you are trying to equate discipline and obedience to a puppy, when scripture equates discipline and obedience to a beloved child. I'll take child any day of the week, it's more than I deserve from my Lord and yet, without discipline and without obedience, our relationship would not exist, even if somehow it survived it would be strained at best.

But let's look even deeper in scripture....what about friendship with the Christ? According to scripture, we are only friends with Christ if we obey what He commands. And so obedience is yet again important to a healthy and happy relationship with the living God. And who are we (all inclusive) to question God on the matter? Who are we to tell the potter that he was mistaken to command obedience to the One who knows us better than we know ourselves and Loves us unto righteousness?

razzelflabben · Feb 10, 2015

Frogster said:
Yes, when i read the part about not buying the beer, I thought to myself, ..

So what, he did not by the beer, ok fine, what is the big deal? All proves my point, about an obedience centered life, there is kind of a so what about it, big deal. It is not that deep really, to garner duch attention.

Obedience centered lives, are man centered ones, all eyes on ones behavior, rather than Christ and his finished work, and present power.

please explain how being so yielding to Christ and to seeking Him above all else even to the point of obedience is self centered? Wouldn't it instead be Christ centered?

ByTheSpirit · Feb 10, 2015

Frogster said:
It is elementalism, the a.b.c.'s. Paul called law life that in gal 4:3, the worlds crude notions..or basic principles, stoicheion.

Chapter 4 is talking about as a child under governors. Puppies and children need abedience training school, but those who grow in the Lord, should seek the higher levels off faith, and power.

So the frog is Biblical...

Gal 4:3 In the same way we also, when we were children, were enslaved to the elementary principles of the world.

The funny thing about your post is that you use Galatians to try and justify this crazy notion, and in that very book Paul writes one of the most profound statements on life in the Spirit; that we walk (in obedience) by the Spirit. You cannot walk by the Spirit by being disobedient... How anyone can seriously consider your words and follow in line then claim to be disciples of Christ is beyond me. As biblicist put it, you should start a new religion.

Frogster · Feb 10, 2015

razzelflabben said:
not sure you are as biblical as you want to presume. Look what Hebrews 6 says the elementary teachings are...Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God,
...repentance from our "acts" that lead to death aka sin is not only an elementary teaching but is a requirement for the totality of the elementary teaching. IOW's repentance means turning away from, going the other way...if we are going away from our sins, how is it that obedience is a bad thing? Especially given that repentance is an elementary teaching that leads to salvation in the first place. It is not possible to turn from our sin and still cling to them at the same time.

Or maybe you are just claiming that being a puppy isn't an elementary teaching, and yet as I already pointed out to you, discipline is a necessary part of being a child of the King according to scripture. IOW's you are trying to equate discipline and obedience to a puppy, when scripture equates discipline and obedience to a beloved child. I'll take child any day of the week, it's more than I deserve from my Lord and yet, without discipline and without obedience, our relationship would not exist, even if somehow it survived it would be strained at best.

But let's look even deeper in scripture....what about friendship with the Christ? According to scripture, we are only friends with Christ if we obey what He commands. And so obedience is yet again important to a healthy and happy relationship with the living God. And who are we (all inclusive) to question God on the matter? Who are we to tell the potter that he was mistaken to command obedience to the One who knows us better than we know ourselves and Loves us unto righteousness?

razzelflabben said:
please explain how being so yielding to Christ and to seeking Him above all else even to the point of obedience is self centered? Wouldn't it instead be Christ centered?

excuse me, but hebrews was about how they should be leaving the elementals of Judaistic rituals bhind, they were stalled, or reverting backwards..to works, obedience mindsets.

The higher end, was to walk with a cleansed conscience in Hebrews, not elementalism, dead works. 9:14.

soooo

Frogster · Feb 10, 2015

razzelflabben said:
please explain how being so yielding to Christ and to seeking Him above all else even to the point of obedience is self centered? Wouldn't it instead be Christ centered?

please show how my puppy analogy is wrong.

Did I not I show how law life is elementalism in the text?

Even Christ died to the law, so you are flat out wrong.

Frogster · Feb 10, 2015

ByTheSpirit said:
The funny thing about your post is that you use Galatians to try and justify this crazy notion, and in that very book Paul writes one of the most profound statements on life in the Spirit; that we walk (in obedience) by the Spirit. You cannot walk by the Spirit by being disobedient... How anyone can seriously consider your words and follow in line then claim to be disciples of Christ is beyond me. As biblicist put it, you should start a new religion.

Are you disproving what I said, that law life is elemantal, so elemental a puppy can do it..

woof...woof!

Again, if ones whole goal in life is to be obedient, one is spending their life in an obedience training schoool, which actually shows, they are disobedient, or they would be out of the school by now!

Frogster · Feb 10, 2015

ByTheSpirit said:
The funny thing about your post is that you use Galatians to try and justify this crazy notion, and in that very book Paul writes one of the most profound statements on life in the Spirit; that we walk (in obedience) by the Spirit. You cannot walk by the Spirit by being disobedient... How anyone can seriously consider your words and follow in line then claim to be disciples of Christ is beyond me. As biblicist put it, you should start a new religion.

yet, led by the Spirit, not under elementalism..

5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law

again, if you wish to make obedience your goal fine, but that is just about following the rules. Ok, gee....wow.....so and so followed the rules today..ok...

Frogster · Feb 10, 2015

razzelflabben said:
please explain how being so yielding to Christ and to seeking Him above all else even to the point of obedience is self centered? Wouldn't it instead be Christ centered?

no, becaus eobedience is centered on the puppy, and how the puppy does, Christ centered is about what He did.

razzelflabben · Feb 10, 2015

Frogster said:
excuse me, but hebrews was about how they should be leaving the elementals of Judaistic rituals bhind, they were stalled, or reverting backwards..to works, obedience mindsets.

The higher end, was to walk with a cleansed conscience in Hebrews, not elementalism.

Lets go behind the curtain, that is open for us..

soooo

if you are correct in your understanding of Heb. why does it include among the elementary teachings things that the Jews would not have even accepted...you know, like Christ as being our Salvation....

Hebrews 6 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

3 And this will we do, if God permit.

Oh well, when we actually read the text for what it says, you are shown to be wrong, but more times than not, mankind, both believers and non believers refuse to read scripture for what it says and instead, chose to hold their traditions and beliefs above the very word of God.

May you have eyes to see what God wants you to see, ears to hear what He wishes you to hear and a soft enough heart to accept it all by the grace of God working in you.

razzelflabben · Feb 10, 2015

Frogster said:
please show how my puppy analogy is wrong.

I already did, I showed that the same things you were attributing to your obedient puppy, apply to the beloved son of which I am thankful to be a beloved child of the King no matter how He chooses to lead me to obedience.

But let's add another curious scripture to the mix, just for fun....Heb. 5:8-9, speaking of the Christ....8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

so, according to Heb. even Christ learned obedience through suffering...curious isn't it?

Did I not I show how law life is elementalism in the text?

no, you didn't even come close which is why I pointed you in the direction of scriptures that tell us what the elementary teachings are....Heb. 5 starting in verse 11

Even Christ died to the law, so you are flat out wrong.

I never said we were not to die to the law....so you are misrepresenting what I said....

Frogster · Feb 10, 2015

razzelflabben said:
is you are correct in your understanding of Heb. why does it include among the elementary teachings things that the Jews would not have even accepted...you know, like Christ as being our Salvation....

Hebrews 6 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

3 And this will we do, if God permit.

Oh well, when we actually read the text for what it says, you are shown to be wrong, but more times than not, mankind, both believers and non believers refuse to read scripture for what it says and instead, chose to hold their traditions and beliefs above the very word of God.

May you have eyes to see what God wants you to see, ears to hear what He wishes you to hear and a soft enough heart to accept it all by the grace of God working in you.

no, he wanted them to go on, it is right in your verse..NOT laying the foundation again, that already taught stuff.

Even the foundation word shows it was the beginning. Does the house get built? yes, so the foundation is the elemental basic starting place, or there would be no building otherwise.

Paul built on that...built, it means to go one....or we would have cities with no buildings, just foundations.

See?

Frogster · Feb 10, 2015

razzelflabben said:
if you are correct in your understanding of Heb. why does it include among the elementary teachings things that the Jews would not have even accepted...you know, like Christ as being our Salvation....

Hebrews 6 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

3 And this will we do, if God permit.

Oh well, when we actually read the text for what it says, you are shown to be wrong, but more times than not, mankind, both believers and non believers refuse to read scripture for what it says and instead, chose to hold their traditions and beliefs above the very word of God.

May you have eyes to see what God wants you to see, ears to hear what He wishes you to hear and a soft enough heart to accept it all by the grace of God working in you.

lets us go on perfection it says...perfection was the higher end, not elementals. The verse is clear, move up a few notches, he told them.

razzelflabben · Feb 10, 2015

Frogster said:
no, becaus eobedience is centered on the puppy, and how the puppy does, Christ centered is about what He did.

What Christ did is an elementary teaching, we are to grow past that, into maturity in Christ. It is always disturbing to me how many people go to the cross them simply stop. Obedience is to grow into the meat of the word, just like we see in Heb.

Frogster · Feb 10, 2015

razzelflabben said:
I already did, I showed that the same things you were attributing to your obedient puppy, apply to the beloved son of which I am thankful to be a beloved child of the King no matter how He chooses to lead me to obedience.

But let's add another curious scripture to the mix, just for fun....Heb. 5:8-9, speaking of the Christ....8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

so, according to Heb. even Christ learned obedience through suffering...curious isn't it? no, you didn't even come close which is why I pointed you in the direction of scriptures that tell us what the elementary teachings are....Heb. 5 starting in verse 11 I never said we were not to die to the law....so you are misrepresenting what I said....

I never said he did not learn obedience, after all, he was born under the elementals, see Gal 4.

So, is the resurrected Christ, sitting on the throne, thinking about obedeince all day?:o

Don't forget, he rose after dying to the elementals.

Frogster · Feb 10, 2015

razzelflabben said:
What Christ did is an elementary teaching, we are to grow past that, into maturity in Christ. It is always disturbing to me how many people go to the cross them simply stop. Obedience is to grow into the meat of the word, just like we see in Heb.

grow by rule keeping? Te text says, God causes the growth.

Frogster · Feb 10, 2015

gotta go, be back later..

razzelflabben · Feb 10, 2015

Frogster said:
no, he wanted them to go on, it is right in your verse..NOT laying the foundation again, that already taught stuff.

Even the foundation word shows it was the beginning. Does the house get built? yes, so the foundation is the elemental basic starting place, or there would be no building otherwise.

Paul built on that...built, it means to go one....or we would have cities with no buildings, just foundations.

See?

lol so you refuse to listen to what I am saying...thanks for confessing that you do not wish to hear what I am saying, saves me a lot of time and posting.

razzelflabben · Feb 10, 2015

Frogster said:
lets us go on perfection it says...perfection was the higher end, not elementals. The verse is clear, move up a few notches, he told them.

again, thanks for confessing you are not willing to listen to what I am showing you...first, I showed you that the elementary teachings listed were not teachings of the Jewish religion thus you are wrong in your assertion of what it is teaching. Second, perfection is to be without sin, aka obedience...so, moving on to someone wanting to communicate

Does the Bible teach that obedience is expected after salvation?

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