Does the Bible teach original sin?

[FerventDisciple]

By this I don't mean does the Bible teach all have sinned, that is clear. But why do people sin? Is it because ever since Adam we carry sin genetically or is simply that all will choose to sin?

I've heard some say that if we are created sinful from birth then we can't be held accountable for it since it was how we were born and can't help it and that it would even make God the author of sin since He created us. In Romans 1 sin is called against nature, so if we have a sinful nature how could there be a sin which is against nature? The homosexuals would be right with their born this way claim.

I've also seen that those who teach sin is a choice and deny original sin, say that we can become sinless or reach entire sanctification. I believe John Wesley and Charles Finney taught this. There seems to be a number of street preachers on YouTube who also teach this. That seems to be the logical conclusion that if sin is a choice then we can choose not to and perfectly obey God. There seems to be scripture for and against this.

Jesus told us to keep His commandments, was he commanding something we can't do?

 

[Messy]

They deny original sin?
Jesus had the same body with the same evil inclination of the flesh, tempted in the same way but He said no. I believe it's only possible to become sinless with a new nature. The blood is polluted or something, I dunno, I believe original sin and sinless perfection. We can choose to get a new nature so it's no excuse.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

But why do people sin?

Because we WANT TO, of course. The Human nature is at enmity with God, and can't be otherwise. (Rom 8:7)

Is it because ever since Adam we carry sin genetically or is simply that all will choose to sin?

It's our NATURE to sin, and when we figure out how to REBEL, then we will, and become sinners by PRACTICE instead of potential.

The homosexuals would be right with their born this way claim.

ANd of course they ARE right that in SOME percentage of PRACTICING HOMOSEXUALS they WERE "Born that way". Humans are also born "Naturally" with LUST, GLuttony, Murder, infidelity, filthyness, judgementalism, and the like. So Just because a Homosexual was "Born that way" DOESN'T MAKE IT AN ACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR before God.

I've also seen that those who teach sin is a choice and deny original sin,

THere are many versions of "oringinal sin" the CORRECT version is that we ARE ALL BORN with a "HUman nature" which tends towars selfishness, ans SIN. OF course "SIN" is a "Choice" - which we WILL ALL MAKE,

say that we can become sinless or reach entire sanctification. I believe John Wesley and Charles Finney taught this.

If you want to know what Wesley taught: The Wesley Center Online: A Plain Account of Christian Perfection

It's a GOOD read, and will clear up your misconceptions.

There seems to be a number of street preachers on YouTube who also teach this. That seems to be the logical conclusion that if sin is a choice then we can choose not to and perfectly obey God. There seems to be scripture for and against this.

But the bottom line is that, as Wesley taught, the more you "Walk in the Spirit", the LESS you will fulfill the lusts of the flesh. (Gal 5:16,17).

Jesus told us to keep His commandments, was he commanding something we can't do?

IN ourselves - NOT A CHANCE!!! How are YOU doing with "Perfect living"???

Me either.

WHEn some "God's little helper" tells you that they are "Living SInlessly" - look a little deeper, and you'll find the truth of that.

 

[Frogster]

How did we receive Adam's condemnation, without his sin?

Rom 5:18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.

 

[Frogster]

Why do some people believe that the one act of Christ, made them righteous, all while they don't believe that the one act of Adam, made them sinners?

18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.


Judgment followed one trespass, sin and death came after that ONE trespass, not our sin.


16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.

 

[Frogster]

Those posts were from another debate, but point being, we got it from Adam, we were born dead.

 

[SeventyOne]

I've heard some say that if we are created sinful from birth then we can't be held accountable for it since it was how we were born and can't help it and that it would even make God the author of sin since He created us.

No, he did not create us, as in you and I. He created Adam and Eve, the origins of our kind, and they were sinless. But the rest of us were ultimately derived from Eve's womb, in the usual way, after they fell.

When you start from inaccurate assumptions you arrive at inaccurate conclusions.

And just because people say we won't can't held accountable for our sins doesn't make it so. Starting with Adam and Eve on, sin has had a demonstrable judgment by God in scripture, both in this life and in the next. It's an incredible willfully ignorant statement for such people to ignore all that and say otherwise.

 

[Messy]

WHEn some "God's little helper" tells you that they are "Living SInlessly" - look a little deeper, and you'll find the truth of that.

What about Enoch? If people achieve it I think they die or get raptured.
Charles Fitch said he attained it.
http://www.temcat.com/011-Prayer-Prom/Pr-Prom-Library/Christian-Experience-Charles-Fitch.pdf

 

[Alithis]

No, he did not create us, as in you and I. He created Adam and Eve, the origins of our kind, and they were sinless. But the rest of us were ultimately derived from Eve's womb, in the usual way, after they fell.

When you start from inaccurate assumptions you arrive at inaccurate conclusions.

And just because people say we won't can't held accountable for our sins doesn't make it so. Starting with Adam and Eve on, sin has had a demonstrable judgment by God in scripture, both in this life and in the next. It's an incredible willfully ignorant statement for such people to ignore all that and say otherwise.

.. not from the womb .. ,that is to say ,sin is not passed on by the womb . for it it were then the lord Jesus would have been born "with sin" but he was not born with nor of sin nor of the flesh but of the Spirit and in the womb "became flesh"
Sin is passed by blood .. ("for the blood is the life thereof ") if the life has sin and the life is passed on to the child then the child ,though innocent of willful wrongdoing ,is born in sin,, for our body carries the genetic trait of the sinful blood of Adam .it is passed from father to child at conception. this is of course understood by any to whom it was revealed and also now observed by means of modern technology. we know that sperm carries the blood of the father. when it fertilizes the egg it then grows fertilized with the fathers blood cells and so is born corrupted from the start .from this we have what we call the "bent" toward sinfulness. a nature that is corrupt in its origins .making it impossible to correct by any outer action we do .. we are altogether without hope -except the lord Jesus came to save us .

the lord Jesus on the other hand was born without Sin.. this is why he was formed by the Holy Spirit in the womb of a virgin.. for no blood of Adam was present to be passed on. thus he was born flesh without sin .. just as Adam was first created as flesh .. without a human father and so was also without sin .but he then sinned .
the lord Jesus ,being flesh and blood just as Adam ,was tempted in every way , just like Adam -but HE did not sin and so remained the perfect sacrifice for us all .

once we ,by faith enter into his death and by faith into his resurrection we too become new creatures in Christ .. and all our sin is gone . from that moment on we become responsible to him and in Him for our behavior and accountable for all we do and how we live as we then go on to grow .building upon that foundation he has laid for us . not staying as we were ,not going back .

 

[SeventyOne]

.. not from the womb .. ,that is to say ,sin is not passed on by the womb . for it it were then the lord Jesus would have been born "with sin" but he was not born with nor of sin nor of the flesh but of the Spirit and in the womb "became flesh"
Sin is passed by blood .. ("for the blood is the life thereof ") if the life has sin and the life is passed on to the child then the child ,though innocent of willful wrongdoing ,is born in sin,, for our body carries the genetic trait of the sinful blood of Adam .it is passed from father to child at conception. this is of course understood by any to whom it was revealed and also now observed by means of modern technology. we know that sperm carries the blood of the father. when it fertilizes the egg it then grows fertilized with the fathers blood cells and so is born corrupted from the start .from this we have what we call the "bent" toward sinfulness. a nature that is corrupt in its origins .making it impossible to correct by any outer action we do .. we are altogether without hope -except the lord Jesus came to save us .

the lord Jesus on the other hand was born without Sin.. this is why he was formed by the Holy Spirit in the womb of a virgin.. for no blood of Adam was present to be passed on. thus he was born flesh without sin .. just as Adam was first created as flesh .. without a human father and so was also without sin .but he then sinned .
the lord Jesus ,being flesh and blood just as Adam ,was tempted in every way , just like Adam -but HE did not sin and so remained the perfect sacrifice for us all .

once we ,by faith enter into his death and by faith into his resurrection we too become new creatures in Christ .. and all our sin is gone . from that moment on we become responsible to him and in Him for our behavior and accountable for all we do and how we live as we then go on to grow .building upon that foundation he has laid for us . not staying as we were ,not going back .

You didn't come from a womb? And sperm has blood cells in it? Interesting. I'd need that verified since 8ts 5he foundational claim of you argument.

Scripture states that woman first came from man, but every man since has come from a woman. Besides, if this is what you got from my post, I'm thinking that you didn't understand it well. The argument was that since God created us and we sin, then God created sin (over simplified to be sure). You and I were not directly created by God, so that conclusion didn't apply. Still doesn't.

 

[SeventyOne]

You didn't come from a womb? And sperm has blood cells in it? Interesting. I'd need that verified since it's the foundational claim of you argument.

Scripture states that woman first came from man, but every man since has come from a woman. Besides, if this is what you got from my post, I'm thinking that you didn't understand it well. The argument was that since God created us and we sin, then God created sin (over simplified to be sure). You and I were not directly created by God, so that conclusion didn't apply. Still doesn't.

 

[Svt4Him]

Through one man, sin entered the world, not every baby. A baby is not born in sin, he/she is a blessing from God.

 

[Alithis]

You didn't come from a womb? And sperm has blood cells in it? Interesting. I'd need that verified since 8ts 5he foundational claim of you argument.

Scripture states that woman first came from man, but every man since has come from a woman. Besides, if this is what you got from my post, I'm thinking that you didn't understand it well. The argument was that since God created us and we sin, then God created sin (over simplified to be sure). You and I were not directly created by God, so that conclusion didn't apply. Still doesn't.

no no lol , sin didnt come via the womb ..-i didnt mean we didn't come via the womb . sorry for making the misunderstanding there

 

[Alithis]

Through one man, sin entered the world, not every baby. A baby is not born in sin, he/she is a blessing from God.

yes through one man .. and how did it end up in you and me then ? Adams blood was passed to Cain and Able ..their blood to their sons ,their sons to their sons and so on until you and me .. but it(sin) entered by one man .. Adam.
it is why the lord jesus had to be born with no sin in his blood he had to be pure .. it is why he has no earthly father .it is why he was conceived as flesh in the womb of a virgin.

this is very basic Christianity

no one is saying a baby is not a blessing ,that's completely missing the point . the child is innocent of "willful wrong doing " but carries in it the inherent propensity to sin and lean toward it as much as an apple on a tree grows under the influence of gravity.. sin , in a manner of speaking ..is like gravity to the flesh , given opportunity ,sooner or later we all fall under its influence (for all have sinned and fallen short [except the lord Jesus ]) it is why we need a Savior.
if the Savior had Adams sin(blood) then he would have had to die for his own sin and death would have held him .. but he had no sin of his own thus after paying for our sin.. he himself could not be held by sins sting ,which is death . but the blood of the lord Jesus was pure from the moment he became flesh to the moment he died. else he could not have done so for the sins of others .

 

[FerventDisciple]

yes through one man .. and how did it end up in you and me then ? Adams blood was passed to Cain and Able ..their blood to their sons ,their sons to their sons and so on until you and me .. but it(sin) entered by one man .. Adam.
it is why the lord jesus had to be born with no sin in his blood he had to be pure .. it is why he has no earthly father .it is why he was conceived as flesh in the womb of a virgin.

this is very basic Christianity

no one is saying a baby is not a blessing ,that's completely missing the point . the child is innocent of "willful wrong doing " but carries in it the inherent propensity to sin and lean toward it as much as an apple on a tree grows under the influence of gravity.. sin , in a manner of speaking ..is like gravity to the flesh , given opportunity ,sooner or later we all fall under its influence (for all have sinned and fallen short [except the lord Jesus ]) it is why we need a Savior.
if the Savior had Adams sin(blood) then he would have had to die for his own sin and death would have held him .. but he had no sin of his own thus after paying for our sin.. he himself could not be held by sins sting ,which is death . but the blood of the lord Jesus was pure from the moment he became flesh to the moment he died. else he could not have done so for the sins of others .

How can sin be passed in blood? 1 John says sin is transgression of the law. It's not a genetic substance or matter. Calling the flesh sin as in our bodies is pure Gnosticism. The propensity to sin could be passed spiritually but not by flesh. If Adam died spiritually when he sinned then his spiritual state could certainly be passed on.

In Isaiah it says clearly that a virgin will conceived as a SIGN. There's nothing there about genetic sin, that's a Catholic teaching and thus why they teach the sinlessness of Mary since if she had original sin she'd still pass it on.

 

[Alithis]

How can sin be passed in blood? 1 John says sin is transgression of the law. It's not a genetic substance or matter. Calling the flesh sin as in our bodies is pure Gnosticism. The propensity to sin could be passed spiritually but not by flesh. If Adam died spiritually when he sinned then his spiritual state could certainly be passed on.

In Isaiah it says clearly that a virgin will conceived as a SIGN. There's nothing there about genetic sin, that's a Catholic teaching and thus why they teach the sinlessness of Mary since if she had original sin she'd still pass it on.

well i absolutely disagree with Mary being sinless .simply because she is born of the flesh and the flesh is corrupt .why is it corrupt? because every one of us begin(that is our flesh) by the sperm fertilizing the egg and so part of us ,from conception, is a part of our father and it has been so since Adam .So if your or my body has ever sinned . then the sin is in us . and sperm carries that tainted blood and fertilizes the next egg and so that child is born of sinful blood(it does not make the baby a "sinner" but it does mean that no mater what a person does even if they live perfect and never ever commit an outward sin.. they still cannot be righteous enough to save themselves . so again..it is why we need a Savior.
if it were not so then we would all have the ability to save ourselves by not doing a sin .but we dont.

we , as David said . are born in sin . it does not mean we did anything wrong to become a sinner .. we are born in sin.just as it is not by anything we can do that we are made righteous ..
thus with no effort on our own part were we made sinners ,being born with it in us .. so by no effort on our part are we made righteous by faith In Christ .. being born again ..IN HIM .. its all very Good news

 

[Svt4Him]

How did sin end up in me? Well...I sinned. You are so correct, Christianity 101. A baby is a gift from God. Sin is transgression of the law. No baby is born having transgressed the law. When does he become a transgressor of the law? Well...and stay with me...when he transgresses the law. All do, but not all are born already guilty of it. Very basic Christianity.

yes through one man .. and how did it end up in you and me then ? Adams blood was passed to Cain and Able ..their blood to their sons ,their sons to their sons and so on until you and me .. but it(sin) entered by one man .. Adam.
it is why the lord jesus had to be born with no sin in his blood he had to be pure .. it is why he has no earthly father .it is why he was conceived as flesh in the womb of a virgin.

this is very basic Christianity

no one is saying a baby is not a blessing ,that's completely missing the point . the child is innocent of "willful wrong doing " but carries in it the inherent propensity to sin and lean toward it as much as an apple on a tree grows under the influence of gravity.. sin , in a manner of speaking ..is like gravity to the flesh , given opportunity ,sooner or later we all fall under its influence (for all have sinned and fallen short [except the lord Jesus ]) it is why we need a Savior.
if the Savior had Adams sin(blood) then he would have had to die for his own sin and death would have held him .. but he had no sin of his own thus after paying for our sin.. he himself could not be held by sins sting ,which is death . but the blood of the lord Jesus was pure from the moment he became flesh to the moment he died. else he could not have done so for the sins of others .

 

[Svt4Him]

Oh, David said in sin his mother conceived him. You may take that to mean he was born in sin, but it has been presented that David's mother may have been in sin. This would be supported by the fact that Jesse didn't bring David to the prophet at first and why he was alone a lot of his time. It is not sin to conceive a baby unless it's an affair or something like that.

To use that as proof text that original sin exists is thin. But maybe we've now moved into Christianity 102.

http://redeeminggod.com/davids-mother-commit-adultery/

well i absolutely disagree with Mary being sinless .simply because she is born of the flesh and the flesh is corrupt .why is it corrupt? because every one of us begin(that is our flesh) by the sperm fertilizing the egg and so part of us ,from conception, is a part of our father and it has been so since Adam .So if your or my body has ever sinned . then the sin is in us . and sperm carries that tainted blood and fertilizes the next egg and so that child is born of sinful blood(it does not make the baby a "sinner" but it does mean that no mater what a person does even if they live perfect and never ever commit an outward sin.. they still cannot be righteous enough to save themselves . so again..it is why we need a Savior.
if it were not so then we would all have the ability to save ourselves by not doing a sin .but we dont.

we , as David said . are born in sin . it does not mean we did anything wrong to become a sinner .. we are born in sin.just as it is not by anything we can do that we are made righteous ..
thus with no effort on our own part were we made sinners ,being born with it in us .. so by no effort on our part are we made righteous by faith In Christ .. being born again ..IN HIM .. its all very Good news

 

[Alithis]

How did sin end up in me? Well...I sinned. You are so correct, Christianity 101. A baby is a gift from God. Sin is transgression of the law. No baby is born having transgressed the law. When does he become a transgressor of the law? Well...and stay with me...when he transgresses the law. All do, but not all are born already guilty of it. Very basic Christianity.

..yes when we sin we become personally guilty of that .but before we do .we have in us a sinful nature .. where did that nature come from ? (again no one is saying a baby is a sinner lol .let that go its not the topic ) the sinful nature is passed on by the blood for the blood is the life there of . life is passed to life and if the life is sinful then the sin is passed on with it .
why a virgin ? that is the question i asked the lord and he showed me that it was because the blood of the mother does not pass to the baby in the womb .. they can be fully differing blood types . if Mary was not a virgin it means she slept with a man ,which means he would be born with the sin of Adam in him and hence not pure .. but he was not .. the sin of Adam was not passed to that baby ..(" it is of the Holy Ghost ..'thats what the angel of the Lord told Mary .. of the holy Ghost .,., not of the flesh and that is WHY a virgin.
every one of us has the blood of our father passed on to us from Adam until today -thus every one of us is born tainted by sin having done nothing to earn that taint .
and it is also why the lord Jesus said .. " you must be born again" - but this time of the Spirit , not of the flesh .

 

[Alithis]

Oh, David said in sin his mother conceived him. You may take that to mean he was born in sin, but it has been presented that David's mother may have been in sin. This would be supported by the fact that Jesse didn't bring David to the prophet at first and why he was alone a lot of his time. It is not sin to conceive a baby unless it's an affair or something like that.

To use that as proof text that original sin exists is thin. But maybe we've now moved into Christianity 102.

http://redeeminggod.com/davids-mother-commit-adultery/

no body is saying a baby is a sinner .. no one is saying it is sin to conceive a baby ..where on earth are you getting those conclusions from .you seem to be fully missing the point .