Does the bible contradict itself?

[hikersong]

Well, he may reveal himself in many different ways. Ancient Hebrew and Greek study isn't the only way to snub a contradiction. God uses humans to relay messages also, if we choose to see.

For many years I did "choose to see" (i.e. I wholeheartedly identified myself as christian, committed myself to God). I see differently now. That isn't because I chose not to see. I was simply searching for truth and became convinced that I was looking in the wrong place. Actually it wasn't so simple because there was the whole emotional strain of leaving something that probably meant I was going to be damned. The way I got round this at the time was to believe that God really did love me, and therefore that whereever I went, whatever I believed, that wouldn't change.

Ironically, this took me to a place where, as I say, I see differently. But I couldn't have done anything else and remained honest.

The reason for the lengthy explanation is that the use of the phrase "choose to see" is regularly used as a way of saying...if you don't believe what I believe then the problem is with you. It's a cop out. I love to see.

Here is an example: For someone who believe the bible contradicts itself (marginally or absolutely,) there has been a way provided to you to prove (to yourself) otherwise (reading original Hebrew and Greek.) Now, whether or not you choose to pursue this doesn't make you any less responsible for the knowledge.

Exactly what I was speaking about above. A muslim tells me I should learn Arabic in order to properly test Islam. I refrain from taking either of these options. You're right. I am responsible for those gaps in my knowledge. What do you imply by this?

Those persons can never say they weren't helped or informed because they have been given a way. What they can say is they chose to ignore the way.

Ignore the way? More like make rational choices about how I can best spend my time on earth.

Always research things for yourself, with childlike innocence.

Right. I do. (If by child like innocence you mean an openness to all possibilities...small children, I would suggest, also have a rigorous desire for truth. Unfortunately we almost always sully this quality with our own prejudices).

 

[hv/2π]

For many years I did "choose to see" (i.e. I wholeheartedly identified myself as christian, committed myself to God). I see differently now. That isn't because I chose not to see. I was simply searching for truth and became convinced that I was looking in the wrong place. Actually it wasn't so simple because there was the whole emotional strain of leaving something that probably meant I was going to be damned. The way I got round this at the time was to believe that God really did love me, and therefore that whereever I went, whatever I believed, that wouldn't change.

Ironically, this took me to a place where, as I say, I see differently. But I couldn't have done anything else and remained honest.

The reason for the lengthy explanation is that the use of the phrase "choose to see" is regularly used as a way of saying...if you don't believe what I believe then the problem is with you. It's a cop out. I love to see.



Exactly what I was speaking about above. A muslim tells me I should learn Arabic in order to properly test Islam. I refrain from taking either of these options. You're right. I am responsible for those gaps in my knowledge. What do you imply by this?



Ignore the way? More like make rational choices about how I can best spend my time on earth.



Right. I do. (If by child like innocence you mean an openness to all possibilities...small children, I would suggest, also have a rigorous desire for truth. Unfortunately we almost always sully this quality with our own prejudices).

I am not going to suggest anything about you, and it wasn't my intention to do so in above posts. I don't know you, but believe it or not I do care about you, the OP and everyone else. I know what God (who i freely call my Father) has done for me, and I would like other people to experience that.

Now, because I do care about you I will not force anything on you. It would also be against my faith to do so. But I am not speaking hot air when I say I used to be a staunch agnostic, and I understand and empathize with the questions you all post.

The choice is yours, so my posts are more like a plea to "hear me out," so to speak, rather than preaching. There are answers to your questions - rational and spiritual (not that the two are exclusive.)

All of that "claptrap" about Christianity being about love is actually true, even though it may not seem like it. As I said before, in this world right now, up is down, left is right and evil is good. True Christians love everyone. Please do not be discouraged by other people claiming to Christian.

We can discuss many of the questions posted already if you want to, but if you feel I am trying to actively convert you, demean you or insult you then I suggest we take a hiatus.

 

[Wicked Willow]

The problem *I* see with many "explanations" that are offered for contradictions in the Bible is this:

With enough effort, *any* contradiction can be reasoned away - and I'm not just talking about the books of the Bible, but literally about anything you might come up with. Any plot hole in any fictional text, any ancient myth that has long since been descending into the realm of folklore, any obvious discrepancy between an imagined political or religious ideal and its practical applicability.

All it takes to achieve just that is the a priori conclusion that there are no contradictions, that there cannot be any contradictions. From there, you can develop an infinite string of theories that re-align whatever discrepancies you may find - and given your premise, even the most spurious explanation will hold up, as long as it sustains the conclusion.

 

[hikersong]

I am not going to suggest anything about you, and it wasn't my intention to do so in above posts. I don't know you, but believe it or not I do care about you, the OP and everyone else. I know what God (who i freely call my Father) has done for me, and I would like other people to experience that.

I'm not questioning your own experience or your interpretation of it. If you read my post again you will see that I am questioning your suggestion that someone (let's take me out of the equation) who doesn't see God has chosen not to see her. And your continuing suggestion that because you believe something to be true then other people are not seeking God properly (or at least are evading some unclear responsibility they have) if they don't, to use your example, learn Greek and Hebrew.

Now, because I do care about you I will not force anything on you. It would also be against my faith to do so. But I am not speaking hot air when I say I used to be a staunch agnostic, and I understand and empathize with the questions you all post.

I'm not questioning your own perceptions of how you feel about me (or anyone) or what you used to believe. I'm sure you once were a staunch agnostic if you say so.

The choice is yours

Not sure what choice you're referring to here.

So my posts are more like a plea to "hear me out," so to speak, rather than preaching. There are answers to your questions - rational and spiritual (not that the two are exclusive.)

I'm happy to discuss. I would appreciate your answers to the simple points I have raised above, which you don't seem to have addressed in this post.

All of that "claptrap" about Christianity being about love is actually true, even though it may not seem like it.

I don't think anyone called it claptrap. Your version of Christianity might be about love (though if it is you should perhaps rethink using phrases like "if you choose to see"...which are always going to put a psychologically manipulative slant on any conversation, as I mention above) but there are certainly some unloving variations of Christianity out there.

The one where if you don't accept Jesus' salvation then you will go to hell being one common, clearly unloving, example.

As I said before, in this world right now, up is down, left is right and evil is good. True Christians love everyone. Please do not be discouraged by other people claiming to Christian.

I know (this is said with weariness and not a little cynicism I'm afraid). You have the true faith. I'm afraid the fact that you already started to load the dice in the conversation (again I refer to "if you choose to see"). I've not doubt that you aspire to love everyone, but I suspect you might be getting a little ahead of yourself.

We can discuss many of the questions posted already if you want to, but if you feel I am trying to actively convert you, demean you or insult you then I suggest we take a hiatus.

I'm sure that is not your intention. And my response is only to the words you are writing, as I don't you personally. In that sense telling me you care about me, while nice, is a little arbitrary. But if you are happy for me to criticise then I am happy to discuss. (I hope you don't see criticism as a sign of a closed heart or anything like that. I criticise because I care about truth, and I welcome your criticism too...I'm sure it'll come wrapped in a bundle of love )

 

[Hentenza]

This thread is off topic to this forum. This is NOT an apologetics forum. Non believers can post their questions in Exploring Christianity.

Thread Closed.