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Does Sickness Glorify God?

Does unhealed sickness/disease glorify God?

  • NO, sickness never glorifies God

  • No, but He "allows" sickness for "good reasons"

  • yes, God loves when we are sick

  • Other


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justinstout

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Please read the whole OP before posting.​
Thanks!
:)



Does Sickness Glorify God?



By Troy J. Edwards




Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying, Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick. When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby. -John 11:3, 4


Taken out of it's contextual setting, this Scripture would appear to teach that God gets glory out of the sickness of others. So many have used this passage irresponsibly. However, a careful study of this passage proves that it is not so much the sickness that brought Jesus the glory, but it was what Jesus did concerning the sickness that glorified Him.

Of course someone may believe that I am incorrect in my assumption. They may say, "But Troy, the passage plainly says that this sickness is for the glory of God that He may be glorified. It does not say anything about the end result." It also says (if we keep it in context), "This sickness is not unto death..." Yet, several passages later, Jesus tells His disciples, " Lazarus is dead." (John 11:14). If He had done this in our day, the Lord would be accused of being a liar and a false prophet. He would be denounced on many of the present day "apologists'" radio shows and internet webpages.

What did Jesus mean here? He simply meant that Lazarus was saved and was not dead as in eternally separate from God. Jesus said that Lazarus was asleep (John 11:11). This is the same description given of every believer whose spirit has left their physical body to be with Jesus (1 Cor. 11:30; 15:6; 1 Thess. 4:13, 14). Therefore, we know that He did not lie. Yet, today's critics would not bother to take the time to see exactly what Jesus is saying. On the contrary they would have attempted to destroy His public ministry.

Even in Jesus' day, He had His fair share of critics, "And some of them said, Could not this man, which opened the eyes of the blind, have caused that even this man should not have died?" (John 11:37) Aaaah the critics. Jesus had to deal with them even in His day. Should not His present day followers expect the same treatment? Surely the servant is not above His master.

Therefore, I believe that I am quite justified in saying that the context of this passage proves that the end result of the sickness, or how Jesus demonstrated His authority even over death, is what brought God the glory. The fact that Lazarus was sick is not what brought God glory. It was what Jesus had done about it the sickness that glorified Him as we read the context of this passage.

In case anyone thinks otherwise please read John 11:37 again and see that the dead Lazarus was bringing Jesus criticism rather than glory. Those who insist that Jesus taught that the sickness was to the glory of God must also keep it in context by saying that the sickness was not unto death. Using this method of interpretation then a person would be accused of calling Christ a liar since Lazarus actually died. Yet, we know that if we read the whole chapter and other Bible passages, our Lord is vindicated from this horrendous accusation.

The fact that Lazarus was raised from the dead is what gave glory to God and not the sickness itself can be confirmed as we read further:


Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God? Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me. And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me. And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go. Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him. - John 11:40-45


Jesus asked, "Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?" Believe what? Believe what He said about Himself being the resurrection and the life? Jesus did not want them to see this as just some future event but He wanted them to take note that resurrection and life was available NOW!!! By placing their faith in this they would see the glory of God.

In verse 45 we are told that the Jews believed on Jesus. What caused the Jews to believe on Jesus? Was it the sickness and/or the death itself? No. The the fact that the sickness was not healed caused some to criticize the Lord (John 11:37). It caused Martha to limit the power of God when she said, "Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died" (John 11:32). It caused the Jews to weep and cry instead of rejoicing that their Savior was there in the midst of them. This caused the Lord Himself to groan (John 11:33). I do not believe that the sickness and subsequent death brought Jesus any glory.

Nevertheless, the sickness was for the glory of God in this manner: it was an opportunity to demonstrate the power of God over sickness, disease and death itself. The sickness and death brought doubt, sadness, criticism, and grieving. Yet, when Jesus demonstrated resurrection power, this in turn caused many of the Jews to believe on Him. The demonstration of the power of God brought Jesus glory. This same resurrection power is still available to give life to your mortal body:


But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. - Rom. 8:11


Your healing is what brings glory to God. Resurrection power is available to you by faith to give life to your mortal body. What Jesus asked the sisters of Lazarus, He asks every sick person today, "Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?" His resurrection power, that same power that raise Lazarus from the dead, that same power the raised our Lord from His grave, is available to those who will simply believe.

Martha did have enough faith to know that the Lord always received that which He prayed for, "But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee." (John 11:22). It was the answer to Jesus prayer for Lazarus resurrection that gave God the glory due to Him. Answered prayer glorifies God:


And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. -John 14:13-14


If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. - John 15:7-8


The New Testament: An Expanded Translation by Kenneth S. Wuest translates John 15:7-8 this way: "If you maintain a living communion with me and my words are at home in you, I command you to ask, at once, something for yourself, whatever your heart desires, and it will become yours. In this my Father is glorified, namely that you are bearing much fruit."

You see, if we are having communion with God and His words are in us we will not ask for something that does not bring God any glory. Certain prayer requests for ourselves are not considered by God to be selfish and self centered. On the contrary, answered prayer brings glory to God. The Word of God has enough promises that gives us the surety that it is always God's will to heal our bodies as well as our spirit and soul. To ask for healing and receive it brings glory to the Lord.

God gets glory as we pray in line with His Word and His promises. Not once has God ever denied a request that was presented to Him in conjunction with His revealed will. He says, "For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us." (2 Cor. 1:20). It would not bring God glory to deny a request when there is a clear promise for it in His Word.

Do not let unbelieving critics and Christian skeptics cheat you out of the blessings that God has clearly promised you. Healing is a promise from God. The Bible tells us "And the prayer offered in faith shall make the sick person well, and the Lord shall raise him up." (James 5:15; The New Testament: An Expanded Translation by Kenneth S. Wuest). There is no spiritualizing this passage. It is a clear cut promise of healing when conditions are met.



The Blind Man In John 9

John 9:1-3 is also used by some to teach that God gets glory out of our sicknesses. They also use this to teach that sickness is not necessarily the cause of sin. I agree with them wholeheartedly on the latter while disagreeing with them strongly on the former. Thank God for passages such as this one and the book of Job which teaches us that the rotten things in life that may come upon a Christian does not necessarily mean that he or she has sinned.

Yet, I cannot agree with my brethren that this passage teaches us that God sovereignly chooses some to suffer sickness for His glory. Let us read this passage:


And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him. I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work. -John 9:1-4


It is unfortunate but true that so many stop reading right there. This along with John 11:3-4 are the proof texts used by some to teach that God gets glory from the person's sickness. Just as we have shown the reader that John 11 does not teach this false doctrine, but in fact, teaches that God received the glory from Lazarus's resurrection, the same truth applies here.

God did not sovereignly choose this man to be sick. So many have interpreted this passage to teach that the man was born blind as a result of "divine providence." Due to the "period" placed after verse three in John chapter 9, this passage may seem to make a wonderful proof text to those who advocate sickness as a blessing from God.

However, every Bible student knows that the New Testament was not originally written in the English language. The English language was not in existence during the period that the New Testament was being written as the Spirit of God inspired the men who wrote it.

The controversial Open View Theologian, Pastor Gregory Boyd gives some wonderful insights into this passage:


[font=Times New Roman, serif]the verse should not be interpreted as suggesting that God's will is behind this man's blindness in the first place, and this is my third point. The original verse does not say that "he was born blind so that God's works might be revealed." The Greek simply has hina with the aorist subjunctive passive of phaneroo ("to manifest") and can readily be translated as, "But let the works of God be manifested." As is certainly the case in Mark 5:23, Ephesians 5:33,2 Corinthians 8:7; as is likely the case in Mark 2:10, 5:12, 10:51 and a host of other passages; and as is frequently the case in the Septuagint and later postapostolic writings, the hina here should be taken as forming an imperative, not a purposive, clause.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman, serif]In this light, Jesus is simply saying that, in contrast to the misguided moralistic speculations of the disciples, the only thing that matters concerning this man's blindness is that God can overcome it and thus be glorified through it. In the satanically ruled world in which he and his disciples ministered, and in which we ourselves still live, there is no discernible particular reason why this man was born blind. The disciples' questions, like the many assertions of Job's "friends," were based on the false assumption that God is behind all things, and thus that there must be a good reason for such things as blindness and the demonic torturing of a little girl-punishing sin, building character or glorifying God, for example.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman, serif]In this reading, however, Jesus is simply refuting (not modifying) this assumption. He is, in effect, saying that the only response to this man's sorry condition is, "Let the works of God be manifested!" This obviously has monumental theological implications. [/font]


To further drive his point home, Dr. Boyd references another scholar of the Greek languages named Nigel Turner. Turner's remarks are well worth quoting here:


[font=Times New Roman, serif]The hypothesis of the imperatival hina ... releases the text from the fatalism which had obsessed it, and dissolves the picture which had become familiar through all our English versions, a man destined from birth to suffer for the sole purpose of glorifying God when he was healed.[/font]


We can further add to the scholarship previously referenced that the Greek texts contain no punctuation so translators had to place them where they felt would be the proper place in the sentences. George Ricker Berry, in his introduction in the The Interlinear KJV Bible says this:


There is no authority anywhere for the punctuation. There are few or no points in the ancient copies, and editors naturally differ in their system of pointing. We have been obliged to punctuate for ourselves as we judged best.


A.S. Worrell makes a similar observation in his translation of the New Testament:


It should be understood by the reader that the division of the different books of the New Testament into chapters and verses was the work of men; and it must be confessed, with deep regret, that the work, as a whole, was very poorly done; a chapter sometimes ending where perhaps a semicolon or even a comma should have been used; and a verse often ending where the slightest division was required. Such errors tend to obscure the sense.


Though, I personally appreciate the division of the Bible into chapters and verse for the fact that it is easier to reference, Dr. Worrell has made an interesting observation that can be applied to John 9:3 and 4. If we removed the period from the end of verse three, and replaced it with a comma or semicolon, and if we had not divided these two verses, we would have a better understanding of this text that is consistent with the rest of Scripture.

Gordon Lindsay, founder of the Christ For The Nations Bible Institute made this statement in volume 3 of his series of books, The Life And Teachings of Christ:


There is no punctuation in the original Greek and the sentence could be punctuated as follows: "Neither did this man sin, nor his parents, but that the works of God should be made manifest in him, I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh when no man can work."[5]


Further in his book, Gordon Lindsay makes it clear that he does not claim to have the correct punctuation. Nevertheless, he does present another alternative that the majority of English translations do not provide. One of the few that do offer this alternative is Robert Young's Literal translation of the Bible:


Jesus answered, `Neither did this one sin nor his parents, but that the works of God may be manifested in him; it behoveth me to be working the works of Him who sent me while it is day; night doth come, when no one is able to work: -- when I am in the world, I am a light of the world.' -John 9:3-5; Young's Literal Translation of the Bible


Notice that Young places a semicolon where most other translations use a period. According to the Webster's dictionary, a semicolon is used to indicate, "a degree of separation greater than that marked by the comma and less than that marked by the period." It is also used "...to separate closely related clauses."[6]

It seems to me that Dr. Young did not not see the man's blindness as the "providence of God" or "for the Glory of God." We should not read this man's blindness as "divine providence" but rather as DIVINE OPPORTUNITY!!! If we read the passage carefully in the KJV, we will see that Jesus was not saying that God ensured that this man was born blind so that God could later heal him. What he was saying was that because this man was born blind, this provides a great opportunity to work the works of God. The Contemporary English version makes this distinction clearer:


As Jesus walked along, he saw a man who had been born blind since birth. Jesus' disciples asked, "Teacher, why was this man born blind? Was it because he or his parents sinned?" "No, it wasn't!" Jesus answered. "But because of his blindness, you will see God work a miracle for him. As long as it is day, we must do what the one who sent me wants me to do. When night comes, no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the light of the world." (John 9:1-5; Contemporary English Version)


A controversial paraphrase of the New Testament by Eugene Peterson called "The Message" also brings the thought of divine opportunity rather than divine providence in this case:


Walking down the street, Jesus saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked, "Rabbi, who sinned: this man or his parents, causing him to be born blind?" Jesus said, "You're asking the wrong question. You're looking for someone to blame. There is no such cause-effect here. Look instead for what God can do. We need to be energetically at work for the One who sent me here, working while the sun shines. When night falls, the workday is over. For as long as I am in the world, there is plenty of light. I am the world's Light." (John 9:1-5; The Message by Eugene Peterson)


Lawrence O. Richards in his Bible Background Commentary illustrates this point well in differentiating between "divine providence" and "divine opportunity:"


What is important here is not the answer Jesus gave – that the blindness was not a punishment for sin at all, but would serve as an occasion to glorify God. What is important is that when the disciples saw suffering – their curiosity rather than their compassion was aroused.

The light that Jesus brings, and in which we are to walk, must radically change our priorities. Solving theological puzzles, and even being "right" in our interpretations of Scripture, should be less important to us than displaying the compassion and concern for others that Jesus' own actions constantly reveal.


It is tempting to quote more scholarship on this but I believe that this will suffice in making our point. Nevertheless, there are several other teachers and commentators who convey the same thought that I am presenting, which we have placed in our footnotes for further study.

As we read further along in the chapter we will see again that it was the healing that brought glory to God, not this man's sickness. The sickness was an opportunity for the power of God to be demonstrated. Verse 4 in most translations outside of the King James uses the personal pronoun "we" instead of "I" showing us that Jesus wants us to cooperate with Him in this work.

We must do the works of Jesus and even greater than these (John 14:11-13; Mark 16:15-20). We are not to look at others with disdain, concerning ourselves with the cause of their sin. If sin be the cause of their predicament, let us minister God's forgiveness as well as healing (James 5:14-16). However, let's not condemn them. If we truly want God to be glorified, we must do the same works that Jesus did and healing the sick is one of them (Matt. 10:1-8; Luke 9:1-3).

However, in our ministering, it is equally wrong to say that God is punishing someone for their sins by sickness as well as to tell someone that God has placed sickness on them to glorify His name. This has a tendency to cause some to become bitter with God. We must simply proclaim the promises of God concerning restoration and deliverance from sin and sickness.


Scriptural Proof That Healing Glorifies God


I want to present to the reader several Scriptures that shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is divine healing, not sickness itself, that brings glory to God. I will not expound very much on these passages since I have already done so in my book, Divine Healing Guaranteed.


But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house. And immediately he rose up before them, and took up that whereon he lay, and departed to his own house, glorifying God. And they were all amazed, and they glorified God, and were filled with fear, saying, We have seen strange things to day. -Luke 5:24-26


And when Jesus saw her, he called her to him, and said unto her, Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity. And he laid his hands on her: and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God. And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day. The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering? And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day? And when he had said these things, all his adversaries were ashamed: and all the people rejoiced for all the glorious things that were done by him. -Luke 13:12-17


And it came to pass, that as he was come nigh unto Jericho, a certain blind man sat by the way side begging: And hearing the multitude pass by, he asked what it meant. And they told him, that Jesus of Nazareth passeth by. And he cried, saying, Jesus, thou Son of David, have mercy on me. And they which went before rebuked him, that he should hold his peace: but he cried so much the more, Thou Son of David, have mercy on me. And Jesus stood, and commanded him to be brought unto him: and when he was come near, he asked him, Saying, What wilt thou that I shall do unto thee? And he said, Lord, that I may receive my sight. And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee. And immediately he received his sight, and followed him, glorifying God: and all the people, when they saw it, gave praise unto God. -Luke 18:35-43


So when they had further threatened them, they let them go, finding nothing how they might punish them, because of the people: for all men glorified God for that which was done. For the man was above forty years old, on whom this miracle of healing was shewed. -Acts 4:21-22


So far we have seen that the passages used by some to teach that God derives glory from our sicknesses can be refuted when we read the passages within their context and see what they are truly teaching. We have seen that the above passages are clear that the healings wrought in the ministry of Jesus caused the people to glorify God. Finis Dake made this statement in his study Bible:


Miracles will always bring glory to God; but failure, sickness, and disease will not. It is held today that sickness glorifies God because one has opportunity to witness to souls, but why not look at it in this light – could not the same witnessing be carried on better in a well body? Is it not better, therefore, to think this – that God gets glory in spite of our sicknesses, not because of it? Would God have received the glory for all the healings recorded in the blind, the sick, and the lame had not been healed and the demons cast out? Would He have received glory if Lazarus had remained dead? Definitely not, so what is the source of God's glory – to remain sick or be healed?


In conclusion, I do not want to seem insensitive to those who are suffering a physical handicap or a sickness of any kind. It is not my intention to hurt anyone or to make them feel that they are any less of a child of God or that they are in sin. The purpose of this essay is to refute and destroy traditional ideas concerning sickness and God's glory. It is my desire that God's children always seek the provision that Christ has purchased for the healing of their bodies. Nevertheless, I do not think any less of anyone who, for one reason or another, has not received this provision or do not sense the necessity to do so.

My main objective is to teach the plain truth of God's Word in these areas, not to belittle others who do not have the same understanding of the Scriptures that I have in these areas. Nevertheless, if one believes that sickness originates from God and is used to glorify Him, one must have something other than out of context Scripture passages and traditional interpretations. Our beliefs must have a solid grounding in the plain truth of Scripture.

As Andrew Murray once said, "Although many sick people may have glorified God by their patience in suffering. He can still be glorified by a health which He has sanctified."



Conclusion: Sickness does not glorify God.
 

Simonline

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Everything that exists (including sickness) ultimately glorifies God whether it is good or evil. It has to by definition. The more darkness there is then the brighter the light appears but that does not absolve the darkness of any moral culpability simply because the by-product of its existence is to emphasizes the light.

God says, I will still judge you for your sin even though that sin emphasizes my holiness. The fact that your sin adds emphasis to my holiness is irrelevant. It is still sin and I will still judge and condemn it. (Rom.3:4-8).

Simonline.
 
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justinstout

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Simonline said:
Everything that exists (including sickness) ultimately glorifies God whether it is good or evil. It has to by definition. The more darkness there is then the brighter the light appears but that does not absolve the darkness of any moral culpability simply because the by-product of its existence is to emphasizes the light.

God says, I will still judge you for your sin even though that sin emphasizes my holiness. The fact that your sin adds emphasis to my holiness is irrelevant. It is still sin and I will still judge and condemn it. (Rom.3:4-8).

Simonline.

People are still missing the point. Please read the whole OP. Sickness itself does not glorify God. You can't find that anywhere in the New Covenant. Yes, the results of it (if that be HEALING) will glorify God, but not the sickness or disease itself.

Did Adam's sin itself glorify God?
Do you believe that fornication itself glorifies God?
Does satan-worship itself glorify God?

That's what we're discussing here.
Does sickness itself glorify God? NO!
 
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California Tim

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OK, I scanned the post - more like a full-on sermon and appeared to be more of the "health/wealth" doctrine that is pervading Christianity today. I simply have one question to ask back -we'll take it to another level:
Does DEATH glorify God?​
Take your concept (doesn't God want us healthy?) and replace it with (doesn't He want us to live?) and see how much dancing you must conjure up to support that misconception. It's the same argument used for both - shouldn't we all be healthy all the time and shouldn't we not have to die physically because God is glorified in neither sickness nor death. On the contrary, we will die because God mandated it as punishment for the sin of Adam - the father of humankind. We will have sickness because we inherited degenerating and faulty DNA over the generations as a result of the same curse. To insinuate that because one is sick, they have not fully grasped the concept of God's unwillingness to allow His creation to suffer consequences is just unscriptural. He IS glorified by our response of trusting His leading and comforting in times of illness or disease - whether He chooses to heal or not.
 
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justinstout

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People are still missing the point. Please read the whole OP. Sickness itself does not glorify God. You can't find that anywhere in the New Covenant. Yes, the results of it (if that be HEALING) will glorify God, but not the sickness or disease itself.

Did Adam's sin itself glorify God?
Do you believe that fornication itself glorifies God?
Does satan-worship itself glorify God?

That's what we're discussing here.
Does sickness itself glorify God? NO!
 
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California Tim

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justinstout said:
People are still missing the point.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it might just be you who has missed the point. You have already decided against all reason and counsel to accept the misconception. Sickness itself is neither glorifying nor unglorifying. Sickness is a physical condition resulting from a curse placed on us since Adam ....which, in turn, fosters a spiritual response toward glory or not. You are equating a spiritual principle to a physical condition and it cannot be done that way. The condition, sickness, disease, poverty -whatever, is simply a condition ... a result of the curse. It is what it is. But HOW we respond is potentially how God is glorified through the process. In that light, it is not unscriptural to grasp the idea that God indeed allows some conditions to rest upon us to bring about a glorifying response.
 
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Simonline

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justinstout said:
People are still missing the point. Please read the whole OP. Sickness itself does not glorify God. You can't find that anywhere in the New Covenant. Yes, the results of it (if that be HEALING) will glorify God, but not the sickness or disease itself.

Did Adam's sin itself glorify God?
Do you believe that fornication itself glorifies God?
Does satan-worship itself glorify God?

That's what we're discussing here.
Does sickness itself glorify God? NO!

Of course they glorify God, but only indirectly. As I said absolutely everything ultimately glorifies God, either directly or indirectly. God cannot loose. Even the fall and its effects cannot diminish God's glory they can only ultimately add to it.

The very fact that Adam (along with the rest of the human race) is capable of sining, in whatever way, glorifies God because he gave us the capacity to sin as part of being made in the image of God so that the human race could freely choose between Good and Evil, the Kingdom of Light and the Kingdom of Darkness. Without that ability then we cannot freely reciprocate God's overtures of Love toward us and God's ultimate purpose is thwarted. The meaning of Life is to know the only true God and Jesus Christ, his Son, whom he sent (Jn.17:3), in other words it's about inter-personal relationships based on Love (1Jn.4:8,16). If Humans are denied the capacity to sin (the capacity to freely opt out of the kingdom of light (by not choosing to opt in)) then God's ultimate purpose (of inter-personal relationships based on Love (1Jn.4:8,16)) is thwarted and all reality (at least for humans) is completely meaningless...exactly how would that glorify God?

Simonline.
 
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justinstout

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Simonline said:
Of course they glorify God, but only indirectly. As I said absolutely everything ultimately glorifies God, either directly or indirectly. God cannot loose. Even the fall and its effects cannot diminish God's glory they can only ultimately add to it.

Simonline.

God's glory Itself and a human's body eaten up with cancer are two totally different things.

Sickness and disease do not glorify God. If it did, then why didn't Jesus tell us so??
 
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Strong in Him

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I haven't read the OP, it's rather long, my concentration isn't currently up to it, and as I know your position on this, Justin, I am sure that I can guess what it says.

But my answer would be that It depends on what you do with it. Does it, on its own, glorify God? You mean is a pile of vomit glorifying to God? Well, no. But then a Bible, on it's own, is not glorifying to God, it needs to be used.
And whether or not a person with a sickness glorifies God depends on whether they just moan and groan, feel sorry for themselves and complain how rotten life is while they're ill, and then go back to being a happy, bouncy Christian whjen they're better. Or whether they give themselves - incapacity and all - to the Lord each day as usual, and keep believing and trusting him in it.

I'd still be interested in your views on that other thread, Justin. If God calls illness a curse, am I cursed? If so, am I lying when I say that the Holy Spirit lives in me, and the Lord blesses me?
 
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QuantaCura

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Strong in Him said:
But my answer would be that It depends on what you do with it. Does it, on its own, glorify God? You mean is a pile of vomit glorifying to God? Well, no. But then a Bible, on it's own, is not glorifying to God, it needs to be used.
And whether or not a person with a sickness glorifies God depends on whether they just moan and groan, feel sorry for themselves and complain how rotten life is while they're ill, and then go back to being a happy, bouncy Christian whjen they're better. Or whether they give themselves - incapacity and all - to the Lord each day as usual, and keep believing and trusting him in it.

I wholeheartedly agree. Sickness itself does not glorify God, but our reaction to it can. Maybe I'm in the minority, but the faith of someone who is persevering through suffering is all the more inspiring.
 
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California Tim

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justinstout said:
God's glory Itself and a human's body eaten up with cancer are two totally different things.
You are getting warmer:
"God is a Spirit and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth." (John 4:24)​
God is glorified by our spirit, our response in times of trials and testing. He is NOT glorified in our physical well being or our sickness. He is concerned with our SPIRITUAL health and Christ said in that regard
I am come that they might have life, and that they might have [it] more abundantly. (John 10:10b)​
He is here to give us the fruits of the spirit in abundance. If they are offered in times of illness, so be it. He said it, I believe it, and that settles it for me.
 
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justinstout

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California Tim said:
You are getting warmer:
"God is a Spirit and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth." (John 4:24)​
God is glorified by our spirit, our response in times of trials and testing. He is NOT glorified in our physical well being or our sickness. He is concerned with our SPIRITUAL health and Christ said in that regard
I am come that they might have life, and that they might have [it] more abundantly. (John 10:10b)​
He is here to give us the fruits of the spirit in abundance. If they are offered in times of illness, so be it. He said it, I believe it, and that settles it for me.
Did Jesus only heal people spiritually?
 
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Simonline

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justinstout said:
God's glory Itself and a human's body eaten up with cancer are two totally different things.

Sickness and disease do not glorify God. If it did, then why didn't Jesus tell us so??

Obviously, with respect, your understanding of spiritual matters is very limited (1Cor.1:18-2:16)

Simonline.
 
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Simonline

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California Tim said:
You are getting warmer:
"God is a Spirit and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth." (John 4:24)​
God is glorified by our spirit, our response in times of trials and testing. He is NOT glorified in our physical well being or our sickness. He is concerned with our SPIRITUAL health and Christ said in that regard
I am come that they might have life, and that they might have [it] more abundantly. (John 10:10b)​
He is here to give us the fruits of the spirit in abundance. If they are offered in times of illness, so be it. He said it, I believe it, and that settles it for me.


This is Gnostic heresy. God is glorified in absolutely everything both spiritual and physical (otherwise why did God 'waste his time' with an incarnation and a physical resurrection). God is the Creator (and affirmer) of the whole of Creation not just the spiritual dimensions.

Simonline.
 
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California Tim

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"It was good for me to be afflicted so that I might learn your decrees...I know, O Lord, that your laws are righteous, and in faithfulness you have afflicted me," Psalm 119:71, 75.

"The LORD hath chastened me sore: but he hath not given me over unto death," Psalm 118:18.

"Before I was afflicted I went astray: but now have I kept thy word," Psalm 119:67.

"Now Elisha was fallen sick of his sickness whereof he died," 2 Kings 13:14.

"Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God," Acts 14:22.

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world," John 16:33.

"Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities," 1 Timothy 5:23.

"Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick," 2 Timothy 4:20.

"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away," Revelation 21:4.



 
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California Tim

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Simonline said:
This is Gnostic heresy. God is glorified in absolutely everything both spiritual and physical (otherwise why did God 'waste his time' with an incarnation and a physical resurrection). God is the Creator (and affirmer) of the whole of Creation not just the spiritual dimensions.

Simonline.
I shall have to investigate my stance. It was not my intention nor my desire to be in error. I hope brevity of the post lead to a misunderstanding of my meaning since I agree with what you've stated above. Nonetheless it was careless.
 
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Strong in Him

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justinstout said:
The Scriptures are clear that Jesus healed ALL.

He only healed one man out of the many who were at the Pool of Bethesda (John 5), and that man didn't even ask for help.

But the fact is that not all who ask today are healed, so something else is going on. Either the Lord has lost his power to heal :eek: , or he has undergone a personality change and doesn't want to heal :eek: :eek: , or just maybe he is asking us to put our faith in him and not in a miracle. I know what you're going to say - that it doesn't say that it the Bible. But Jesus performed signs and wonders to confirm that what he was saying was true, that God's kingdom really was coming, that he was who he said he was (the Messiah) and that they really could have a new relationship with God and call him Father. We know this, and have proof of God's love because we live after the cross and resurrection. God can still perform miracles of healing today, of course he can - salvation is the biggest miracle of all. But maybe he sees that we have more going for us today than they did then, and wants us to trust him for who he is, notjust what he can do?

I mean, what's the alternative? That illness can affect the lives of God's children and he does not want that but he is powerless to do anything about it? That God cannot work for good in all things, because he calls sickness a curse and doesn't want it? That people with illnesses are not glorifying him, even if they are preaching the Gospel and helping others and leading them to the Lord? That God looks at people who are paralysed, brain damaged or whatever and feels disgusted by them? What about Psalm 139, does it apply to babies who are born with disabilities, or id the devil sneak them in when God wasn't looking, and did something without God knowing?

The Lord God can, and does, use anything to bring glory to his name and make it known to people, whatever the devil's intentions might be. Just as Joseph said to his brothers who sold him into slavery in Egypt, "you meant it for evil, but God meant it for good."
 
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