Does Satan exist?

[SecretOfFatima]

Does Satan exist?

 

[rahul_sharma]

Define Satan.

If you mean evil qualities , ignorance , sinful nature...then yes this exist, if you mean some invisible demon whose name is Satan...then no Satan don't exist.

 

[ServantofTheOne]

yes he does, how do we know? God told us he does. How do we know that God told us, through his messengers who performed miracles to prove their prophethood. why do i believe satan exists, because God told us through his speech(Qur'an), why do i believe Qur'an to be the word of the Creator? its content and through its inimitability.

is there any other way to know that Satan exists, outside from God telling us so? no.

 

[SecretOfFatima]

Do these miracles still happen today?

 

[ServantofTheOne]

miracle still happen, God has power to do what he wills. He can intercede and provide miracles to anyone or anything he wills.

however there are no more messengers or prophets today or in the future. the prophets/messengers of the past were given miracles to perform by God's permission as evidence of their prophethood.

any old person can claim to be a prophet, who will believe them? if they don't have some sort of evidence. Jesus(pbuh) was given the ability to cure the sick, give life to dead, make bird come to life out of clay, etc all by the permission of God, as God is the maker of all things are within his power.

the last propet Muhammad(pbuh) was given a lasting miracle that would continue until the day of judgement. the Qur'an.

 

[SecretOfFatima]

God bless you, peace be with you, my brother.

The reason i asked this question is because of the following article that i read in a web site (here is an extract from the site).

In a well documented and witnessed event, on October 13, 1884, Pope Leo XIII stood motionless for several minutes after saying Mass and then collapsed to the floor. Immediately several observers rushed to his assistance. When asked what had happened he told them that he had just overheard a conversation between God and Satan. He said that Satan made a boast that he could destroy the Church and the world if he just had enough power and time to do so. So God granted Satan his request with the understanding that if the devil failed then he would be cast into Hell forever.


But what I find amazing and I'm not sure if you are aware of the this, but October 13 is the aniversary of "the miracle of the sun" in Fatima, Portugal.

Only god knows if this is just a coincidence or not...

 

[ServantofTheOne]

peace be unto you too, my brother in humanity.

Satan is not at par with God, he has no power to destroy the world.

Satan is a creation of God who rebeled against God's command, similar to how Humans rebel against god. Satan, like humans, have free will to choose to be obedient to God or to be rebelious.

Fatima, Portugal? did you know Fatima was the name of the prophet Muhammad's(pbuh) daughter?

 

[SecretOfFatima]

Wow...
Now that you mentioned I remember reading about this a long time ago somewhere but never took much notice...

I'm sure I also read that she was the only daughter...
Do you know if this was true?

 

[Arthra]

In my Faith Satan has no independent existence and is really like a shadow to the light...in other words Light has existence and when you shine a light in a darkened room the darkness is gone... It has no independent reality.

I think this is why Jesus said

"You are the light of the world....No one lights a light a lamp to put it under a tub; they put it on the lampstand where it shines for everyone in the house." - Matthew 14-16

In Qur'an it says:

"O mankind! ... We have sent unto you a light (that is) manifest"

- Surih 4:174

- Art

 

[belladonic-haze]

Yes......Some....too many.....individuals of the Homo Sapiens sapiens species are definetely Satan!

 

[Ram]

the last propet Muhammad(pbuh) was given a lasting miracle that would continue until the day of judgement. the Qur'an.

Quran is a miracle? How? A book that preaches anti democracy and hatred is a miracle? It is a real miracle that mulsims really beleive the quran to be a miracle.

If you think the quran is a miracle due to a literary style, then you dont know anything about sanskrit literature...do you want to see the kind of miracles in sanskrit literature? And can you show one such from the quran?

 

[SecretOfFatima]

I sense this threat is taking another direction which I personally don't like to see... Brothers and sisters try to be at peace with yourselfs before you pass any comments which may offend others, you can't force your beliefs onto others, they have to find the thruf for themshelfs. I'm sure god has a bigger plan for all of us brothers and sisters, other then just making us hate each other...

Instead let's have a proper discussion about this subject.
Please, take a look at my Nickname, from where I'm standing it should say it all, so be careful what you say not to upset others.

I'm going to try to go back to the conversation that we were having in this thread.

Here is an extract from another website about the events which took place on October 13, during "the miracle of the sun" at Fatima.

[size=-1]Saturday, October 13, 1917:[/size]

More than 70,000 people, both believers and critics, had gathered in the field in terrible rainy weather. Many newspaper reporters and photographers were there to record the miracle or prove the children were lying. The crowd was standing in the relentless, pouring rain with mud up to their ankles. Many were praying the Rosary. Suddenly Lucia cried out, "Put down your umbrellas everyone!” To Jacinta and Francisco she said, "Kneel down. Our Lady is coming! I have seen the flash!” Lucia then said to Our Lady, "What do you want of me?”

Our Lady replied, "I am the Lady of the Rosary, I have come to warn the faithful to amend their lives and ask for pardon for their sins. They must not offend Our Lord any more, for He is already too grievously offended by the sins of men. People must say the Rosary. Let them continue saying it everyday.”

She also said, "I would like a chapel built here in my honor.” She added that "the war will end soon” and that the soldiers would not be long in returning to their homes.

As Our Lady was about to leave she pointed to the sun and Lucia cried out, "Look at the sun!” The rain had stopped and the black clouds parted and the sun began to whirl in the sky, scattering rays of multicolored light and lighting up the entire countryside. The sun whirled for three minutes, stopped and, then, resumed again a second and third time lasting a total of twelve minutes. The sun spun faster each time and at the end seemed to tear itself from the sky and began plunging to earth.

The crowd was on their knees, terrified, asking pardon for their sins fearing that the end of the world was at hand. At the last moment the sun halted its descent and returned to its normal position. The miracle ended with the rain soaked earth and people's clothes now being completely dry. There were many reported healings. The miracle was seen over a 600 square mile area. The Portugal newspaper reporters gave long and detailed accounts but newspapers in most other countries ignored the story.

As the crowd was witnessing the miracle of the sun, the children saw visions of the Holy Family, Jesus, Joseph and Mary. They also saw Our Lord carrying His cross with His Mother, Our Lady of Sorrows. Lucia also saw Our Lady of Mount Carmel who signifies the triumph over suffering.


You can also find official fotographic records taken that same day in the official fatima web site...

Personally I'm a believer that people should be aware of the events which took place in Fatima and is for people to decide if history was changed because of these events or not... again I believe we cannot force people to believes these events all we can do is plant the seed and let it grow in them.

God bless you my brothers and sisters, peace be with you all.

 

[SecretOfFatima]

Fatima, Portugal? did you know Fatima was the name of the prophet Muhammad's(pbuh) daughter?

Does anyone know if she was the only child?

 

[peepnklown]

I personally don’t believe in Satan, but I would like to see people support their view of Satan from the Tanakh.

 

[Moros]

Yep. He's closer than you may think.

 

[chokmah]

Does Satan exist?

HaSatan is a title that is a transliteration of the Hebrew. HaSatan means "the Adversary". It's not a particular person nor being.

 

[psychedelicist]

Of course, for the sake of clarity and beating the dead horse, we'll have to clarify the difference between lucifer and satan so as to avoid confusion

 

[chokmah]

Of course, for the sake of clarity and beating the dead horse, we'll have to clarify the difference between lucifer and satan so as to avoid confusion

Yeah, but you know where that normally goes...

 

[Arthra]

Does anyone know if she was the only child?

You can read about Fatima here:

http://www.jannah.org/sisters/fatimah.html

and

http://www.geocities.com/az_zahrapage/html/mainpage.htm

She has been overlooked or forgotten but her life is a fascinating study and merits a lot of reflection I think.

Her title was "Resplendent". She is called Al-Zahra which was associated with the Morning Star.

One tradition cited about her states:

Prophet (SAWW) said:

"Surely my daughter Fatima is: the mistress of all women from the beginning to the end, she is part of me, and the light of my eyes, she is the flower of my heart, and is my soul, (Fatima) is a human huri, who whenever she stands in prayers in the presence of her lord (Exalted in his name), her light illuminates the skies for the angels, like stars shine to people on Earth".

Fatima was the wife of Imam Ali and mother of Imam Hasan and Imam Husayn.

According to a tradtion it is said the sorrow she experienced with the loss of her father Prophet Muhammad was so great that she received a Hidden Book from Angel Gabriel to console her through Imam Ali...

"After the Prophet's death Fátima was affected in spirit to a degree which none but God knew. Jebrá'íl was sent down daily to comfort her, and 'Alí wrote what the angel said, and this is the Book of Fátima which is now with the Imám Mahdí." We Baha'is call this Book "The Hidden Words".

- Art

 

[Ryal Kane]

Once you hypothesize a supernatural entity that can manipulate the world and also what some people think then you can no longer rely on any sort of scripture for basis of your religion.

It's just as likely that you're following a religion founded or manpulated by this entity. This applies equally to any religion at all.

You can make arguements like 'why would Satan perform miracles?' but this presumes to know that nature of God and 'good vs evil'. Since the only source of this comes from the believed scripture it canot be valid.

Furthermore a supernatural entity like Satan would possess superhuman knowledge which many people ascribe to sciptures as being proof of God but could equally be applied to a malevolent entity.

Basically, as soon as you start invoking supernatural entities, Good or Evil, you throw all logic out the window and can no longer proove anything.