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Does Newton's 3rd Law + Logic = Genesis?

JMBT

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Everywhere one looks, the universe seems to require balance. Whether mathematical equations or the basic laws of physics, one thing must be offset by another. Essential to this analysis posted below is the existence of higher dimensions of Space. Within Geometry, higher spatial dimensions do indeed exist (Google hypersphere). Hypothesized in this analysis, there exists a higher dimensional Space containing our Universe as well as an infinite number of "parallel" universes. There also must exist a dimension higher than this, which is concluded to be the 3 dimensions, or persons, of God.

Newton’s Third Law
For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

“The statement means that in every interaction, there is a pair of forces acting on the two interacting objects. The size of the forces on the first object equals the size of the force on the second object. The direction of the force on the first object is opposite to the direction of the force on the second object. Forces always come in pairs - equal and opposite action-reaction force pairs.” (from physicsclassroom dot com)

Spacetime's Outwards Expansion

If forces are known to act on objects and, “in every interaction, there is a pair of forces acting on the two interacting objects,” than the Outwards expansion of Spacetime necessitates an Inwards force on an object in contact with Spacetime. The absence of Spacetime can not be an 'object' by definition. Within this analysis, Spacetime is presumed to be an object.

An outwards force onto Spacetime (Dark Energy) is expanding Spacetime (or ST), at an accelerating rate, out into the 3 spatial dimensions.

“Forces always come in pairs - equal and opposite action-reaction force pairs.”
"The direction of the force on the first object is opposite to the direction of the force on the second object."

This law could apply outside of the observable universe. Simply because it applies within the observable universe does not mean that we could observe it's full application. We can observe its partial application if, as this scenario suggest, Spacetime is one of the objects involved; this partial application being the accelerating expansion of the universe.

Required: An object outside of and "before" the creation Spacetime upon which an Inwards force is applied.

How might the Catholic Trinity exist, and then create, in terms of physical reality?

God as the Trinity; God the Father(Lover), God the Son(Beloved), and the Holy Spirit which proceeds from the Father and the Son. The Trinity requires the object of God the Father's love, namely God the Son. It is by the power (force) of the Holy Spirit that God the Father creates all things through God the Son (the object).

"We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father. Through him all things were made."

If space and time don't exist; applied from where? God the Father. Applied by what? The Holy Spirit.

Through God the Son, by the power of the Holy Spirit, ("the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son"), God the Father creates all things.


Within the Trinity you have an object that must exist, and a power (force) that is the interaction between the object and what is not the object.


Now, imagine an object that exists "before" the creation of space and time. Now, if an Inwards force onto this object was applied, what would result?

The Inwards force onto this object, according to Newton's 3rd Law, necessitates its equal and opposite force to react with. Thus, through this object, another object must exist onto which an Outwards force can be applied.

The whole of this Inwards force onto said object would exist instantly as it is outside of Spacetime, and therefore outside of time.
The entirety of the corresponding force, an Outwards force onto ST would also exist instantly, simultaneous with the Inwards force onto the original object.
“Forces always come in pairs - equal and opposite action-reaction force pairs.”

Every percentage of the whole of this Outwards force onto ST exists in a separate, newly expanded Space.
The volume of Space that the Outwards force occupies differs according to what percentage of the Outwards force is observed. Every percentage (infinitely many) of the Outwards force, (whether 1% or 94.000010090465%), exists in a separate, newly created Space.

Picture2.jpg


As every percentage of the whole of this Outwards force onto ST exists in a separate Space, then immediately following its creation, the percentage of the Outwards force occupying each Space would react with its bordering Space’s percentage of Outwards force as an inwards force.

Picture1.jpg


This interaction of every part of the whole of the Outwards force with each other part of the whole of the Outwards force balances itself and halts the expansion of the object (Spacetime).
First and last percentage of the whole of the Outwards force would be balanced only if this were a higher dimensional Space. (Think: hypersphere)

Clifford-torus.gif


“in every interaction, there is a pair of forces acting on the two interacting objects.”
“The direction of the force on the first object is opposite to the direction of the force on the second object.”

In this scenario,

The forces are the different parts of the same whole of the Outwards force onto ST.
The interacting objects are the separate Spaces that the different percentages of the Outwards force occupy.

Genesis 1:1
Now what exists at every percentage (infinitely many) of the whole of the Outwards force is a Space halted in its expansion.

Confined within these Spaces is the percentage of the outwards force in which the Space exists.

This is an energy confined to a Space halted in its expansion.
This will be referred to as Matter.

Now what exists is Matter in a higher dimension of Space.
“In the beginning God created heaven and earth.”

At this point, all forces exist in balance.

Dividing the Waters
If an Inwards force onto the entirety of this object were applied, and by extension applied to the Matter existing at every percentage of the whole of this object, the Matter would be pushed Inwards into where there is no Space to be pushed. The Inwards force onto this object necessitates its equal and opposite force to react with. Thus through this object, and therefore through the matter created at every percentage of the object (infinitely many), another object must exist onto which an Outwards force can be applied.

Therefore, the Matter existing at every percentage of the whole of the Outwards force is expanded outwards into a new Spacetime (Big Bang) (The dimension of our Universe), separate from each other in this new spatial dimension, but parallel with each other in the higher spatial dimension (Parallel Universes).

In this scenario, our Universe has its origin at one of the percentages of the whole of the original Outwards force. The Matter was created first, and then expanded into new Spacetime at the creation of our Universe.

As the Outwards force onto Spacetime expands Spacetime, the corresponding Inwards force increases, and vice versa, accounting for an accelerating expansion of Spacetime (Dark Energy).

The Matter created at the other percentages of the whole of the original Outwards force, then expanded into new and parallel Universes, would affect our Universe as Dark Matter.

Genesis 1:3 "Then God said: Let there be light, and there was light."
Light is created before the separation of "the waters" in the book of Genesis; so, if light, along with matter, was created in a higher dimension "before" the Big Bang, it would help to explain the curious relationship between light and matter.

“God saw all he had made, and indeed it was very good.”
 

JMBT

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There is a physical reality to existence, no? I am proposing a scenario;

If there is an object that exists through itself
(as proposed in the role of the Son in the relationship of the Trinity), what would result from an Inwards force onto said object?

I am simply pointing out the fact that the results seem to correspond to an interpretation of the Bible's creation story, and the progression of this scenario is logically sound and in accordance with the laws of physics.

You condemn the post as nonsense without investigation.
 
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lesliedellow

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There is a physical reality to existence, no? I am proposing a scenario;

If there is an object that exists through itself
(as proposed in the role of the Son in the relationship of the Trinity), what would result from an Inwards force onto said object?

I am simply pointing out the fact that the results seem to correspond to an interpretation of the Bible's creation story, and the progression of this scenario is logically sound and in accordance with the laws of physics.

You condemn the post as nonsense without investigation.

Newton's Laws are descriptive of the physical universe. Trying to apply them to God, as if he was an object in that universe, or as if he was subject to laws which were of his own making..... well there can be few things more nonsensical, but it is something repeatedly heard from creationists.
 
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JMBT

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Why outward only? What happened to inward?

The inwards force is accounted for. Under Dividing the Waters, "If an Inwards force onto the entirety of this object were applied, and by extension applied to the Matter existing at every percentage of the whole of this object..."

The Inwards force is on Matter. "As the Outwards force onto Spacetime expands Spacetime, the corresponding Inwards force increases, and vice versa, accounting for an accelerating expansion of Spacetime."

Gen 1:7-8 "And God made a firmament, and divided the waters that were under the firmament, from those that were above the firmament, and it was so. [8] And God called the firmament, Heaven; and the evening and morning were the second day."

Luke 17:20-21 "And being asked by the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come? he answered them, and said: The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:[21] Neither shall they say: Behold here, or behold there. For lo, the kingdom of God is within you"

If you are referring to gravity, Einstein's Relativity posits gravity as bends or distortions in the fabric of Spacetime, rather than a force.

Newton's Laws are descriptive of the physical universe. Trying to apply them to God, as if he was an object in that universe, or as if he was subject to laws which were of his own making..... well there can be few things more nonsensical, but it is something repeatedly heard from creationists.

Correct, the laws of physics describe the physical universe. The laws of physics describe forces as coming in pairs and acting on two interacting objects. A force is expanding Spacetime outwards at an accelerating rate, and therefore must have an equal and opposite force to interact with. This equal and opposite force requires an object that is in contact with Spacetime. This is the observational foundation.

If you read the post, you'll notice that I do not, as you suggest, infer God as an object in our Universe. I suggest that Newton's 3rd Law pertains to all of physical reality, rather than being confined unto our Universe only.

God is infinite. God the Father is infinite, God the Son is infinite, and God the Holy Spirit is infinite. I posit that God the Son is the "object." God the Father is with him and in him, but is not the object. God the Holy Spirit is the interaction, or "force," between the Father and the Son. In this interpretation of the Trinity, God is all of these 3 co-dependent persons. They exist because of each other, and have all power with each other. Since God the Son is the infinite physical reality of existence, He must give of his body that creation may take place. Thus, "Through him all things were made."
 
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lesliedellow

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Correct, the laws of physics describe the physical universe. The laws of physics describe forces as coming in pairs and acting on two interacting objects.A force is expanding Spacetime outwards at an accelerating rate, and therefore must have an equal and opposite force to interact with. This equal and opposite force requires an object that is in contact with Spacetime. This is the observational foundation.

You cannot talk about the universe as if it was some physical object within itself.
 
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tulipbee

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The inwards force is accounted for. Under Dividing the Waters, "If an Inwards force onto the entirety of this object were applied, and by extension applied to the Matter existing at every percentage of the whole of this object..."

The Inwards force is on Matter. "As the Outwards force onto Spacetime expands Spacetime, the corresponding Inwards force increases, and vice versa, accounting for an accelerating expansion of Spacetime."

Gen 1:7-8 "And God made a firmament, and divided the waters that were under the firmament, from those that were above the firmament, and it was so. [8] And God called the firmament, Heaven; and the evening and morning were the second day."

Luke 17:20-21 "And being asked by the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come? he answered them, and said: The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:[21] Neither shall they say: Behold here, or behold there. For lo, the kingdom of God is within you"

If you are referring to gravity, Einstein's Relativity posits gravity as bends or distortions in the fabric of Spacetime, rather than a force.



Correct, the laws of physics describe the physical universe. The laws of physics describe forces as coming in pairs and acting on two interacting objects. A force is expanding Spacetime outwards at an accelerating rate, and therefore must have an equal and opposite force to interact with. This equal and opposite force requires an object that is in contact with Spacetime. This is the observational foundation.

If you read the post, you'll notice that I do not, as you suggest, infer God as an object in our Universe. I suggest that Newton's 3rd Law pertains to all of physical reality, rather than being confined unto our Universe only.

God is infinite. God the Father is infinite, God the Son is infinite, and God the Holy Spirit is infinite. I posit that God the Son is the "object." God the Father is with him and in him, but is not the object. God the Holy Spirit is the interaction, or "force," between the Father and the Son. In this interpretation of the Trinity, God is all of these 3 co-dependent persons. They exist because of each other, and have all power with each other. Since God the Son is the infinite physical reality of existence, He must give of his body that creation may take place. Thus, "Through him all things were made."
Amazing how inwards are just as big as outward in space!
 
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JMBT

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You cannot talk about the universe as if it was some physical object within itself.

I am not. Rather, the universe is a physical object within a higher dimensional physical reality. The universe is created and expands by necessity of the equal and opposite reaction of the inwards force applied to the matter, first existing in this higher spatial dimension.

As all matter in our universe is necessarily in contact with the spacetime of our universe, the kingdom of God is increasing within us as the universe expands from us. The one increases the other, thus the acceleration. Remember, matter isn't expanding outwards from a point, but space itself expands.
 
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lesliedellow

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I am not. Rather, the universe is a physical object within a higher dimensional physical reality.

How would you know that? It is not mathematically required for a manifold to be embedded in a space of higher dimension, and you would have a hard job proving that it is physically required.
 
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JMBT

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During the creation week, the amount of mass/energy in the universe went from zero to it's current level in a period of six days.

Are you suggesting that the universe existed at one point with no matter or energy? The Big Bang theory demonstrates all matter and energy now in the universe existing at an infinitely dense singularity, before the expanse of space.

How would you know that? It is not mathematically required for a manifold to be embedded in a space of higher dimension, and you would have a hard job proving that it is physically required.

I said "within" when I should have said "created through." I suggest that it is not embedded in the spatial sense you're referring to, but is created through this higher dimensional space. Like I mentioned above, the BB suggests that matter existed at a singular, infinitely dense point in our universe before the expanse of the space of our universe, but this point, no matter how infinitely dense, is still a point in space. I posit that all the matter in the universe, concentrated at this point at the earliest stage of the universe, existed even prior to this infinitely dense point of space, as part of a higher spatial dimension.

It is through the application of an inwards force onto this matter in the higher dimensional space, that the creation and outwards expanse of space must occur in order to maintain balance. This then necessitates time in order for the reaction to play out.
 
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AV1611VET

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Are you suggesting that the universe existed at one point with no matter or energy?
No.

I just worded it that way, assuming the reader would understand what I meant.

HOWEVER, if God created the space before He put the matter/energy in it, then yes, we could have a universe with "nihilo" in it.
JMBT said:
The Big Bang theory demonstrates all matter and energy now in the universe existing at an infinitely dense singularity, before the expanse of space.
Good for demonstrations.

With the right tweaking & manipulation, almost anything can be demonstrated.

How do you think we got Thalidomide?

In the end times, the scientist/antichrist is going to demonstrate abiogenesis.
 
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JMBT

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In the end times, the scientist/antichrist is going to demonstrate abiogenesis.

I do not think science is at odds with faith as you seem to believe, but I do agree that it must be conducted ethically which is definitely not always the case. Remember, before the BB theory (formulated by a Catholic priest), science claimed the universe to be eternal. I'll leave you with a quote I think you'll enjoy,

“For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance, he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.”
― Robert Jastrow, God and the Astronomers

Though, I live by faith AND reason.
 
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AV1611VET

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I do not think science is at odds with faith as you seem to believe, but I do agree that it must be conducted ethically which is definitely not always the case. Remember, before the BB theory (formulated by a Catholic priest), science claimed the universe to be eternal. I'll leave you with a quote I think you'll enjoy,

“For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance, he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.”
― Robert Jastrow, God and the Astronomers

Though, I live by faith AND reason.
Okay, JMBT.

Nice chatting with you.

And welcome to CF! :wave:

I hope you're planning to stick around.
 
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Loudmouth

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There is a physical reality to existence, no? I am proposing a scenario;

If there is an object that exists through itself
(as proposed in the role of the Son in the relationship of the Trinity), what would result from an Inwards force onto said object?

I am simply pointing out the fact that the results seem to correspond to an interpretation of the Bible's creation story, and the progression of this scenario is logically sound and in accordance with the laws of physics.

You condemn the post as nonsense without investigation.

This reminds of "fair and balanced" journalism where some people feel they need to balance the truth with lies.

In this case, it appears that some people want us to balance reality with make-believe.
 
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029b10

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Newton’s Third Law
For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Which may have be derived from the precept contained in the writings of Galatians 6:7:
"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

220px-Newtons_cradle_3_ball_swing_5_ball_system_cropped.gif


If for every action, there is an equal and opposition reaction, then Newton's cradle would swing in perpetuity
since the amount of reaction [momentum] produced by the action [force] of the swinging objects would theoretically
produce the same amount expended in reciprocity, which otherwise would be known as perpetual motion.
 
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timewerx

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Space containing our Universe as well as an infinite number of "parallel" universes. There also must exist a dimension higher than this, which is concluded to be the 3 dimensions, or persons, of God.

There is no parallel universe where alternate timelines exist.

If you traveled back in time to slap your younger self, your younger self will inevitably do the same thing at a later point in time.

You cannot also travel back in time to kill your younger self. The fact that you're there means you failed to do it.

If you are given a glimpse of a bad future that you are at fault, your efforts to avoid it will lead to the event.

Those are not theories btw.
 
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JMBT

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Which may have be derived from the precept contained in the writings of Galatians 6:7:
"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

220px-Newtons_cradle_3_ball_swing_5_ball_system_cropped.gif

The more I look, the more references to this law of existence I notice. The Beatitudes clearly suggest this as truth.

Were this not the case, why must Jesus descend that we may ascend? Why must God take on humanity that we may partake in His Body?

There is no parallel universe where alternate timelines exist.

I don't make the claim that alternate timelines exist, but I do claim that other universes exist, parallel in a higher spatial dimension.

"...the Matter existing at every percentage of the whole of the Outwards force is expanded outwards into a new Spacetime (Big Bang) (The dimension of our Universe), separate from each other in this new spatial dimension, but parallel with each other in the higher spatial dimension (Parallel Universes).
In this scenario, our Universe has its origin at one of the percentages of the whole of the original Outwards force. The Matter was created first, and then expanded into new Spacetime at the creation of our Universe."

Therefore, the parallel universes would each contain the matter existing at their respective percentages of the whole of the original Outwards force (refer to the crudely drawn diagrams), not alternate timelines of the matter existing in our universe.
 
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timewerx

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I don't make the claim that alternate timelines exist, but I do claim that other universes exist, parallel in a higher spatial dimension.

I have seen it, and theories are a little bit different from reality.

What may seem to you as "parallel universe" is actually just another point in time in the past or the future of the same universe.

You can try to alter the past or present and it will always lead to the same outcome.
 
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