Does morality exist without God?

[hollyda]

"I don't believe in fairies! I don't believe in fairies! I don't believe in fairies!"

See, now they're all dead!
(from Peter Pan)

Yeah, but if you clap really hard, don't they come back?

 

[selfinflikted]

Yeah, but if you clap really hard, don't they come back?

I am clapping SO hard right now.

 

[hollyda]

I am clapping SO hard right now.

 

[Harry3142]

Did anyone believe in them before then?

The theory of an atomic structure is over 2,000 years old.

 

[Harry3142]

The attempt made in recent decades by secular thinkers to disengage [the moral principles of western civilization] from their [scripturally based] religious context, in the assurance that they could live a life of their own as a "humanistic" ethic, has resulted in what one writer has called our "cut-flower culture." Cut flowers retain their original beauty and fragrance, but only so long as they retain the vitality that they have drawn from their now severed roots; after that is exhausted, they wither and die. So with freedom, brotherhood, justice, and personal dignity - the values that form the moral foundation of our civilization. Without the life-giving power of the faith out of which they have sprung, they possess neither meaning nor vitality. Morality ungrounded in God is indeed a house built upon sand, unable to stand up against the vagaries of impulse and the brutal pressures of power and self-interest. (Will Herberg, Judaism and Modern Man, as quoted by Rabbi Joseph Telushkin in his book Jewish Wisdom, page 291)

The belief that a society can exist at all, muchless exist morally, without a belief in God is comparable to a contractor believing that he can build a highrise apartment building without digging down to the bedrock first so that he can form a solid and uniform foundation for the structure to sit on. In both cases the end result will be the total collapse of what was intended to be secure.

 

[ryeaber]

The belief that a society can exist at all, muchless exist morally, without a belief in God is comparable to a contractor believing that he can build a highrise apartment building without digging down to the bedrock first so that he can form a solid and uniform foundation for the structure to sit on. In both cases the end result will be the total collapse of what was intended to be secure.

Google the Piraha people and Daniel Everett. The Piraha have been doing fine without any concept of God or a higher power for centuries.

 

[SonOfTheWest]

The attempt made in recent decades by secular thinkers to disengage [the moral principles of western civilization] from their [scripturally based] religious context, in the assurance that they could live a life of their own as a "humanistic" ethic, has resulted in what one writer has called our "cut-flower culture." Cut flowers retain their original beauty and fragrance, but only so long as they retain the vitality that they have drawn from their now severed roots; after that is exhausted, they wither and die. So with freedom, brotherhood, justice, and personal dignity - the values that form the moral foundation of our civilization. Without the life-giving power of the faith out of which they have sprung, they possess neither meaning nor vitality. Morality ungrounded in God is indeed a house built upon sand, unable to stand up against the vagaries of impulse and the brutal pressures of power and self-interest. (Will Herberg, Judaism and Modern Man, as quoted by Rabbi Joseph Telushkin in his book Jewish Wisdom, page 291)

The belief that a society can exist at all, muchless exist morally, without a belief in God is comparable to a contractor believing that he can build a highrise apartment building without digging down to the bedrock first so that he can form a solid and uniform foundation for the structure to sit on. In both cases the end result will be the total collapse of what was intended to be secure.

Talk about one step removed from racism.

 

[sandwiches]

The theory of an atomic structure is over 2,000 years old.

So, people believed in ELECTRONS before 1897?

 

[SonOfTheWest]

So, people believed in ELECTRONS before 1897?

My only guess is he might have been refering to atomism. Though off the top of my head I don't remember when that particular idea was propossed.

 

[SithDoughnut]

My only guess is he might have been refering to atomism. Though off the top of my head I don't remember when that particular idea was propossed.

Wikipedia says 5th/6th Century BC.

 

[Red Tornado]

I'm a atheist, and I can tell you my morality comes from me. I see things as;
If I do this, will I be harming the person in anyway?
I have no interest in harming people, and I really enjoy making people happy. So my morality comes from my understanding of the world.

 

[sandwiches]

My only guess is he might have been refering to atomism. Though off the top of my head I don't remember when that particular idea was propossed.

Ah. So, people didn't believe in electrons before 1897, then. I wish rsduncan would have responded.

 

[DCJazz]

contd



Does morality exist without God? Why would it?
OR/
Why would it not?
There is secular morality and there is God's morality.
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 56: 8-9


we can treat people who we can see with respect n treat GOD with disarray and

how can we treat each other with no love whom we see daily but loves GOD whom we can not

vice versa ,,,...
__________________

Well, since WE don't exist without God, I don't see how Morality could either.

 

[sandwiches]

Well, since WE don't exist without God, I don't see how Morality could either.

I think the OP is really asking whether we can be moral without a belief in God. Obviously we can, as attested by millions of atheists around the world.

 

[Sweet Tea]

Well, since WE don't exist without God, I don't see how Morality could either.

It would actually have to be established that God does indeed exist in order to even make such a claim, now wouldn't it?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

contd



Does morality exist without God? Why would it?
OR/
Why would it not?
There is secular morality and there is God's morality.
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 56: 8-9


we can treat people who we can see with respect n treat GOD with disarray and

how can we treat each other with no love whom we see daily but loves GOD whom we can not

vice versa ,,,...
__________________

Some morality can exist without God, which is not incompatible with a Christian viewpoint on the matter. The more pertinent question would be: to what extent do non-Christians appropriate a fully Christian sense of morality? Is it enough to say we are 'moral' if the set of moral values by which we live is significantly divergent in quality and character than those of New Testament Christianity?

 

[sandwiches]

Some morality can exist without God, which is not incompatible with a Christian viewpoint on the matter. The more pertinent question would be: to what extent do non-Christians appropriate a fully Christian sense of morality? Is it enough to say we are 'moral' if the set of moral values by which we live is significantly divergent in quality and character than those of New Testament Christianity?

I guess it depends on how you define "moral."

 

[Dave Ellis]

Of course morality can exist without god. In fact the argument could be made that many things attributed to God in the bible are quite immoral. That then leads into the debate of "Which is greater, secular or religious morality".

Humans have empathy for other humans and animals. We understand what the consequences of our actions are. Likewise, many animals have shown empathic and moral traits. Many species work together both in saving other animals, nursing animals back to health, and likewise exclude or punish for things like stealing from another member of the pack. This displays they understand the difference between right and wrong. This is not true for all species, but many species have these traits. Most importantly, many species of primates display empathic or moral behaviour to some extent.

For Humans to develop the way we did, we must have had that ability to empathize, and want to assist each other. Society works on co-operation. Without it we don't have trade, medicine, a legal system and more.

Would those things exist without god? Absolutely. Cultures that never were taught about the Christian God exhibit those tendencies. Likewise, major ancient civilizations that existed before the Christian god was invented (Egypt, Babylon, Greece etc) had those same morals. In fact Babylon gave us our earliest preserved legal code, and Greece gave us Democracy, Philosophy, Science and Early Medicine.

Godless cultures, or cultures that worship other gods still show morality. That means Morality is within us, not given to us via the Christian God or the Bible.

 

[farpadokly]

A non-theist basis for morality is simple: Human empathy. A recognition that other people are humans like myself, that they dislike pain and injury and misfortune, as I do. From this follows the rational principle that one should, as far as possible, seek to minimise these things. This principle results in rules which can be agreed upon by a majority and implemented. Any other source of morality is seriously flawed and will result inevitably in injustice for at least some.

 

[AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2]

2 wrongs dont make a correct