Does morality exist without God?

[someguy14]

Christians tell me that you cannot "earn" youself a place in heaven.

Choice. Accept the free gift. Humble yourself. God is Glroious.

 

[someguy14]

Presbyterianism is essentially the Church of Scotland, however yes, it is Calvinistic in nature.

You're not really getting the argument though, so I will write it out in logical steps:

1: If god exists outside of time, and can see all of time at once, he must then know everything that everyone will do during their lifetimes.

2: If he creates someone, then based off the first point, as he can see all time, he must then also know if they will accept Jesus during their lives or not.

3. If he creates someone knowing that they will not accept Jesus in their lives, then he is creating them in a way that will inevitably condemn them to hell.

As a side note: It could be argued it would be more moral for God to not create that person at all.

God is blameless.

 

[Eudaimonist]

God is blameless.

Only if God actually is blameless. The problem is that the argument presented shows significant reason for blame.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[someguy14]

Only if God actually is blameless. The problem is that the argument presented shows significant reason for blame.


eudaimonia,

Mark

God equals good.(key)
Man can choose God, good, or choose against God, against good.
By one saying they are for God, that one is saying they are for good.

Let's view it another way.
By one saying they are for good, that one is saying they are for God.

By one saying they are for good, and against God, that one's lieing, since (key).

 

[Eudaimonist]

God equals good.(key)

All you are doing is trying to define yourself correct. Can you understand why that isn't convincing to others?

Have you read George Orwell's novel 1984? In that novel, the Newspeak dictionary defined Big Brother as good. Did that make Big Brother good?


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[someguy14]

All you are doing is trying to define yourself correct. Can you understand why that isn't convincing to others?



eudaimonia,

Mark

Good is good.
If one cannot admit to that truth, that one is lieing to that one's self.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Jonas.

I asked for compelling evidence, not a bible verse.

Now please can you provide some compelling evidence?

 

[Dave Ellis]

Reincarnation is a fail. reincarnation promotes entering into a dieing again and failing, again.

God is The Source of all goodness. All wisdom. All perfection. God always wins. God created it.

There's no more evidence for your god than there is for reincarnation... on what grounds you accept one, and reject the other?

 

[Dave Ellis]

The demons believe also, and tremble.

There's no such thing as Demons

 

[Eudaimonist]

Good is good.

Another tautology?

This doesn't support your case, since you have to show that God is good, not merely that good is good.

We can agree that good is good, but we have different ideas of what "good" refers to.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Dave Ellis]

Hell.

Cannot lie.

You just proved his point for him... all the hell quotes come from the New Testament.

Hell does not appear once in the Old Testament.

Therefore, Hell is a fiction made by later theologians after warping the ideas of the Jews.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Choice. Accept the free gift. Humble yourself. God is Glroious.

Why would I humble myself for a being that likely doesn't exist, to accept a free gift that also likely doesn't exist?

 

[Dave Ellis]

God is blameless.

Not if he designed them in a way to fail... if that's the case, he takes on infinite blame.

 

[Dave Ellis]

God equals good.(key)
Man can choose God, good, or choose against God, against good.
By one saying they are for God, that one is saying they are for good.

Let's view it another way.
By one saying they are for good, that one is saying they are for God.

By one saying they are for good, and against God, that one's lieing, since (key).

What you're failing to recognise is that God created that person exactly like he is. Therefore it is ultimately out of the person's control. That's like blaming someone for being born with Down's Syndrome... That's just the way they were created.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Big Brother equals good.(key)
Man can choose Big Brother, good, or choose against Big Brother, against good.
By one saying they are for Big Brother, that one is saying they are for good.

Let's view it another way.
By one saying they are for good, that one is saying they are for Big Brother.

By one saying they are for good, and against Big Brother, that one's lieing, since (key).

 

[Common Sense]

Originally Posted by someguy14

Do you consider kindness a good thing?
​

That depends on if it is exercised rationally and wisely at the right time, in the right way, with the right intent, etc.

I regard a person who can do this reasonably well to be someone who has developed the virtue of kindness. Yes, I regard that accomplishment as a good thing.

If so, do you agree that Christ teaching kindness(love) is a good thing?
​

I agree that anyone teaching kindness is a good thing, whether that is Jesus, or the Buddha, or Muhammed, or Secular Humanists, or whomever.

If so, it cannot be a bad thing to encourage others to Christ, since all that Christ teaches is love.
​

Bzzzzzt! That is incorrect. That is not even close to the complete message of the gospels.

Since God is here and there is only one God and only one religion with a Savior who walked among us and died for us, I can't say goodness would be present without God because nothing would be present without God. We wouldn't have the freedom to believe or dis-believe His existance, we wouldn't be here.

 

[Freodin]

Since God is here and there is only one God and only one religion with a Savior who walked among us and died for us, I can't say goodness would be present without God because nothing would be present without God. We wouldn't have the freedom to believe or dis-believe His existance, we wouldn't be here.

But if this is correct, and a useful argument to make... then it would be euqally correct and useful (in a debate about morality) to state that evilness would not be present without God.

So that tells us nothing at all.

 

[now faith]

Big Brother equals good.(key)
Man can choose Big Brother, good, or choose against Big Brother, against good.
By one saying they are for Big Brother, that one is saying they are for good.

Let's view it another way.
By one saying they are for good, that one is saying they are for Big Brother.

By one saying they are for good, and against Big Brother, that one's lieing, since (key).

Next are you going to ask me how many fingers your holding up? That's a good example for this thread.

 

[now faith]

We corrected you on false proofs that you had given, for example on the NASA thing we even linked you to the NASA homepage that dismissed the claim you made as urban legend.

We recognize you may not have intentionally misled people, but it's clear you didn't research into the claims you were making. We just called you out where you were wrong, and there's nothing incorrect about doing that. If I make a statement I'm clearly wrong about, I'd expect to hear it too. The difference is, I would appreciate being corrected as it gives me a greater understanding of what's actually true.

The problem is, after you were corrected on some points, you still continued to argue from those points. That is intellectual dishonesty.

We're not playing Tennis without a racquet. We can say what we wish, you can say what you wish. If I had a belief I strongly felt was true, I would welcome criticism of it. If it's true, it should stand on it's own merits. Unfortunately, no religion to date has met that standard.

I called you on article 11 not existing in other thread, you did not even consider that a issue . Your game set match premis is based on that article. How do you know about religion meeting standards? Have you ever watched a tumor dissipear or 3 cancers healed in one month. Have you needed 50000.00 dollars in a week or close your business? Pray on Monday receive it all by Friday . What you fail to understand is Christians serve a living God who manifest his power to us on a regular basis. If these provisions are happenstance I need to go to Vegas .

 

[Freodin]

Next are you going to ask me how many fingers your holding up? That's a good example for this thread.

You might have noticed that Mark only used that same argument that someguy made, just with another object of "good"?