Does Modern Science Align with the Bible?

[Humble Penny]

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Lol, circuit? that's another word found in statements you misuse which actually refute your theories. The word is chuwg, yes, the same word rendered in your favorite verse as a circle.

Job 22:14 KJV
14 Thick clouds are a covering to him, that he seeth not; and he walketh in the circuit of heaven.

Is it circuit or circle? It's the same word used for a circle in your favorite flat-earther verses. You seem to need a circle to be only a flat circle in your favorite flat-earther verses but that isn't only what it means and may not even be what it means at all.

In the above passage the author writes circuit or circle of the heavens but we know even from other passages you yourself have quoted herein that the heavens are spread out like a tent. What is like a tent and circular? A sphere, lol, or at least what is visible in the night sky, which would be called a hemisphere in modern terminology. All of your scripture proof texts are misapplied and misunderstood.

Job 22:14 YLT
14 Thick clouds are a secret place to Him, And He doth not see;' And the circle of the heavens He walketh habitually,

And it seems you can't tell the difference between a sphere and a circle...yet only in the case of a plane earth model would the sun have a circuit since it moves around the earth; in the globe earth model the Sun shoots through space while the earth revolves around it, forming an apparent circuit of the Sun. Pretty elementary stuff which you completely ignore...

 

[Humble Penny]

Yes I have heard of common sense, unfortunately these days it’s not so common. Allow me to explain what is happening in these two photos so that this concept will hopefully, yet unlikely, not escape you any longer. The train is traveling at a different speed than the air is, the smoke stack in the second picture is not. Wow who would’ve thought that the answer would be so simple. Here’s an experiment you can try to test this theory. Get in a car. Roll up the windows. Drive at 60mph on the freeway. Now light yourself on fire. Notice that the smoke coming off of your charred body rises straight up to the roof of the car and does not fly towards the back of the car. That is because the air inside the car is traveling at the same speed that your charred body and the smoke are traveling. Both your charred body and the air are traveling at 60mph. It’s not magic, it’s not rocket science, it’s just common sense.

You sure like making things up as you go don't you? The illustration I shared with you doesn't mention the wind speed...it only shows how smoke naturally behaves with and without movement. Anyone who's been to a campfire--which your childish logic is making me doubt you've ever attended one--knows that when there's no wind the smoke from the fire pit travels up...but depending on the direction of the wind the smoke blows wherever the wind pushes it.

In this case the false god "gravity" has no effect on the smoke for some odd reason...though adherents state this made up force is also responsible for holding the entire ocean to the earth...yet unable to keep birds and other like objects stuck to it...

When smoke and fires are created, and when we observe rain and snow...they never seem to show the effect of one of these three supposed movements of the globe earth:

1. Axial tilt
2. Axial spin
3. Orbital circuit

At the very least we should consistently see movement 3 have an affect on the aforementioned...yet this has never been observed along with the first two movements.

 

[Humble Penny]

HP, with all due respect, I don't really think I need to answer to you why I asked someone in the thread a question about what he said nor justify why I asked it.

Yeah I know, it was a rhetorical statement I was making...I was just venting a bit of steam was all.

 

[Humble Penny]

Show me where Venus is called a planet in the scripture.

The passage you cite from Isaiah 14:12 in the LXX shows that the translators were referencing Venus as a planet while not using the Greek planet explicitly. Proof of this may be seen in Plato's cosmology found in Timaeus which is dated c. -360 BC; and according to the narrative of the Letter of Aristeas we may date the orignal translation of the LXX to c. -284 BC in the reign of king Ptolemy II Philadelphus: this means that Venus being a planet was well established in the classical Greek period for 76 Years by the time the LXX is translated and we see them use the Greek εωσποροσ > eosporos > Hesperus which is a clear reference to the planet Venus. If you knew your history then you would've done your etymological homework properly...but you haven't.

Adam was taken from the adamah, which is soil, Genesis 2:7, Genesis 3:23.



A rib in this sense is then called an iysh, like the iysh Gabriel, and it also means a member, portion, or part of something greater.



I suppose this means you really don't care how many contradictions your theories force onto the scripture: I was hoping it wasn't that reason.

This is totally in error because it is clear that while ADaM and ADaMaH share the same root ADM it is an wrong to say that because man came from the earth that the earth is also man. The same can be said for the creation of Eve, prior to her creation we only see the word ADaM being used. But once Eve is created we see the words YSH and YSHA used which again points to the fact that the woman came from the man: therefore this is a clear distinction between their sexual identities, while Genesis 1:26 gives us their gender identities. In conclusion Adam refers to mankind as a whole while man and woman refer to the parts which make up this whole: when the two become one they are untied as God intended them to be.

This then refutes your false theory that:

The earth is a planet because man is created from the earth therefore the earth is man: and since man wanders [planestai] therefore the earth wanders [planestai] and is a planet.
daq

 

[dani'el]

I'd be interested to know what evidence was presented and your daughters counter response.

Déjà vu all over again ...
That was over 30 yrs ago. The use of fish-eye lenses on high altitude balloons which made the curvature of the earth look like a squiggle, and then using that as evidence of a flat earth reminded me of this.
I do not remember the specific text, videos, and arguments we used then. So if anyone is desperate for a "win" in this thread, I'll allow you to claim this without argument.

 

[BNR32FAN]

All you need to do is read Scripture brother...God's Word is not difficult to understand if you allow it to speak to you:

"Then God said, 'Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.' God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
Genesis 1:26-27 NASB1995

"Then the Lord God said, 'Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever'—"
Genesis 3:22 NASB1995

If God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are referred to as males (i.e. He) the who is female (i.e. She)? Wisdom:

"Does not wisdom call, And understanding lift up her voice?
'The Lord possessed me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old. From everlasting I was established, From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth.
When there were no depths I was brought forth, when there were no springs abounding with water. Before the mountains were settled, Before the hills I was brought forth; while He had not yet made the earth and the fields, nor the first dust of the world.
When He established the heavens, I was there, when He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep, when He made firm the skies above, when the springs of the deep became fixed, when He set for the sea its boundary so that the water would not transgress His command, when He marked out the foundations of the earth; then I was beside Him, as a master workman; and I was daily His delight, rejoicing always before Him, rejoicing in the world, His earth, and having my delight in the sons of men.'"​

Proverbs 8:1‭, ‬22‭-‬31 NASB1995

Why do you think Jesus is the New Adam and the Church is the new Eve? Well duh...God doesn't promote hermaphrodites!

The scriptures do not say that the church is the new Eve.

 

[Humble Penny]

Déjà vu all over again ...
That was over 30 yrs ago. The use of fish-eye lenses on high altitude balloons which made the curvature of the earth look like a squiggle, and then using that as evidence of a flat earth reminded me of this.
I do not remember the specific text, videos, and arguments we used then. So if anyone is desperate for a "win" in this thread, I'll allow you to claim this without argument.

This isn't about winning: it's about telling the Truth. The high altitude balloon videos show that the earth is stationary: for if it actually moved then the high altitude balloons in every single video should've been left behind and we should've observed the earth racing around the Sun...but we have no evidence if this which means the whole globe earth model and heliocentric model are lies built upon pagan religious beliefs instead of scientific observation.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The passage you cite from Isaiah 14:12 in the LXX shows that the translators were referencing Venus as a planet while not using the Greek planet explicitly. Proof of this may be seen in Plato's cosmology found in Timaeus which is dated c. -360 BC

So what your saying is that your basing this on pagan beliefs. Plato was a pagan was he not? So now your supporting both Gnosticism and paganism in your beliefs.

 

[Humble Penny]

The scriptures do not say that the church is the new Eve.

Let's look at the words of the Apostle Paul:

"But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise. This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar. Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother."
Galatians 4:23‭-‬26 NASB1995

Where in Scripture does it say Hagar is Mt. Sinai?

Clearly Paul is drawing an inference from the mysteries contained in Scripture as they are clear allusions to the saved and unsaved in Christ.

Also what does Christ tell His Apostles about the Scriptures concerning Himself?

"And He said to them, 'O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?' Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

Now He said to them, 'These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.' Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and He said to them, 'Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.'"
Luke 24:25‭-‬27‭, ‬44‭-‬47 NASB1995

But where is the name Jesus Christ mentioned in the Law and the Prophets? Only with the successor of Moses, namely Joshua son of Nun, and they're contained in the types and signs of men who prefigured Christ. Now if we take the name of Moses and connect it to Joshua and his father we have a significant mystery of Christ revealed to us:

Moses from Moshe "to draw out".
Joshua from Yehoshua from Yah + Shuah "YHWH'S Salvation"
Nun from two roots NYN meaning either to "grow, sprout, increase" or to "waste away, degenerate"
The first letter of Moses's name in Hebrew is Mem which represents water.

Put all together we see that Christ was immersed in the water and would also be drawn out of it: now this mystery represents the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, and we see that the old man is what waste away and degenerates while the new man is raised up and drawn out of the water to eternal life: thus it is through this same baptism that we are saved through the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ the Son of God.

So then just as Eve came from the side of Adam: so too did the Church come the side of Christ from which He was pierced.

Only those who have been initiated into the mysteries of God and Christ will understand this for then the veil of Moses will not be covering your eyes.

 

[Humble Penny]

So what your saying is that your basing this on pagan beliefs. Plato was a pagan was he not? So now your supporting both Gnosticism and paganism in your beliefs.

Why do you sound so simple in your thinking? I simply drew the connection that the Hebrew translators of the LXX were correlating the connection between the rising and setting of Venus with the rise and fall of Lucifer/Satan. Why did the seventy-two translators use the Greek Eosporos for the morning star? Because it would make the Hebrew more understandable to the Greeks of course.

Other than that I was simply correcting daq's erroneous belief that Venus wasn't referred to as a planet until modern times. Please read more carefully before speaking...

 

[BNR32FAN]

You sure like making things up as you go don't you? The illustration I shared with you doesn't mention the wind speed...it only shows how smoke naturally behaves with and without movement.

If course it doesn’t mention wind speed because it’s intended to promote a false exegesis. Why would the creator of that meme want to mention wind speed when it refutes his own agenda?

In this case the false god "gravity" has no effect on the smoke for some odd reason...though adherents state this made up force is also responsible for holding the entire ocean to the earth...yet unable to keep birds and other like objects stuck to it...

Gravity actually does affect smoke because smoke is hotter than air and rises above it because it’s less dense than the air around it. The surrounding air is more dense than the smoke which causes them to exchange positions until the smoke drops in temperature and reaches the same density as air then it stops rising and will eventually start falling. And not all smoke rises, I bought my wife a nice little incense waterfall that uses a special type of incense that produces smoke that falls.

When smoke and fires are created, and when we observe rain and snow...they never seem to show the effect of one of these three supposed movements of the globe earth:

1. Axial tilt
2. Axial spin
3. Orbital circuit

That’s because the fire, the air, and the smoke are all traveling the same speed just like a cigarette in a car with the windows closed. If your theory was correct then lighting a cigarette in a car traveling at any speed with the windows closed would cause the smoke to go to the back of the car. That doesn’t happen which proves your theory is incorrect.

At the very least we should consistently see movement 3 have an affect on the aforementioned...yet this has never been observed along with the first two movements.

So if gravity doesn’t exist why don’t we float around on the earth?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Let's look at the words of the Apostle Paul:

"But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise. This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar. Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother."
Galatians 4:23‭-‬26 NASB1995

Where in Scripture does it say Hagar is Mt. Sinai?

Clearly Paul is drawing an inference from the mysteries contained in Scripture as they are clear allusions to the saved and unsaved in Christ.

Also what does Christ tell His Apostles about the Scriptures concerning Himself?

"And He said to them, 'O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?' Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

Now He said to them, 'These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.' Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and He said to them, 'Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.'"
Luke 24:25‭-‬27‭, ‬44‭-‬47 NASB1995

But where is the name Jesus Christ mentioned in the Law and the Prophets? Only with the successor of Moses, namely Joshua son of Nun, and they're contained in the types and signs of men who prefigured Christ. Now if we take the name of Moses and connect it to Joshua and his father we have a significant mystery of Christ revealed to us:

Moses from Moshe "to draw out".
Joshua from Yehoshua from Yah + Shuah "YHWH'S Salvation"
Nun from two roots NYN meaning either to "grow, sprout, increase" or to "waste away, degenerate"
The first letter of Moses's name in Hebrew is Mem which represents water.

Out all together we see that Christ was immersed in the water and would also be drawn out of it: now this mystery represents the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, and we see that the old man is what waste away and degenerates while the new man is raised up and drawn out of the water to eternal life: thus it is through this same baptism that we are saved through the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ the Son of God.

So then just as Eve came from the side of Adam: so too did the Church come the side of Christ from which He was pierced.

Only those who have been initiated into the mysteries of God and Christ will understand this for then the veil of Moses will not be covering your eyes.

Sounds a lot like Gnosticism the way you come to that conclusion but like I said it’s not stated in the scriptures, you simply have to resort in some serious scriptural acrobatics to arrive at your conclusion.

 

[Humble Penny]

Sounds a lot like Gnosticism the way you come to that conclusion but like I said it’s not stated in the scriptures, you simply have to resort in some serious scriptural acrobatics to arrive at your conclusion.

Well you better be careful because now you're accusing Paul and Jesus Christ for doing the same thing. It's clear that you don't even have the slightest hint of the difference between the Word of God and Gnosticism.

 

[Humble Penny]

If course it doesn’t mention wind speed because it’s intended to promote a false exegesis. Why would the creator of that meme want to mention wind speed when it refutes his own agenda?



Gravity actually does affect smoke because smoke is hotter than air and rises above it because it’s less dense than the air around it. The surrounding air is more dense than the smoke which causes them to exchange positions until the smoke drops in temperature and reaches the same density as air then it stops rising and will eventually start falling. And not all smoke rises, I bought my wife a nice little incense waterfall that uses a special type of incense that produces smoke that falls.



That’s because the fire, the air, and the smoke are all traveling the same speed just like a cigarette in a car with the windows closed. If your theory was correct then lighting a cigarette in a car traveling at any speed with the windows closed would cause the smoke to go to the back of the car. That doesn’t happen which proves your theory is incorrect.



So if gravity doesn’t exist why don’t we float around on the earth?

Boy, oh boy, oh boy....you are clearly confused as you're mixing up the theory of gravity with the law of matter and density...not surprised as you've demonstrated to that with many other things.

The smoke in a car with the windows rolled up doesn't move at the same rate of speed as the car because it's in a closed environment...and yet the oath the the smoke forms is influenced by the direction you move the lit cigarette and the exhalation of your breath. The smoke from a chimney shows that without any wind the smoke goes straight up. As for that waterfall candle you bought your wife...it seems you don't understand that it has that effect because it was designed to give the smoke a waterfall like effect...otherwise smoke behaves normally in the previous examples I gave.

As for gravity it is an ambiguous term as it comes from the Latin gravitas which is the noun form mean "weighty, heavy, pressure" and as an adjective in Latin it is gravis which means "serious, weighty, heavy, important, etc." In short the concept of gravity is ambiguously telling you that some important force is holding the world in place...but fails to state what this important force is.

As concerns the theory itself you can disprove it by filling up a balloon with half air and half helium: and younwill see that it stays suspended in mid air without being pulled down by gravity. Why is this? Because the density of the balloon is at equilibrium with the medium surrounding it. In like manner this would explain why human bodies always fall towards the earth because the density of our bodies are greater than the air surrounding us, and this would explain why without air filling our lungs or any special device assisting us: we sink in the water because our bodies are denser than it. A ship in the other hand which has a lager mass floats atop the water because it's density is less than the water surround it; and in a similar fashion this explains why submarines can rise and submerge because when filled with water it's density increases, but the water that is let out the less dense the submarine becomes and the higher it rises to the surface.

 

[dani'el]

This isn't about winning: it's about telling the Truth. The high altitude balloon videos show that the earth is stationary: for if it actually moved then the high altitude balloons in every single video should've been left behind and we should've observed the earth racing around the Sun...but we have no evidence if this which means the whole globe earth model and heliocentric model are lies built upon pagan religious beliefs instead of scientific observation.

Why do I let myself get suckered into these arguments?
Your balloons were not up long enough and had no reference point in flight. However if we look at something very measurable and even calculable we can see the earths rotation does have practical effects.
You are no doubt familiar with the Coriolis Effect. You can see it at work when you drain your bathtub. But did you know that in long range shooting it also effects the strike of a bullet? If you know your latitude, azimuth, and delta v its' effect can be calculated with an app at any distance.
Coriolis effects the horizontal strike of the round, and the related Eotvos Effect alters the vertical strike.
Both are functions of the earth's rotation. Given the terms you can look them up for yourself, so I am not going to explain them for you.
Several other factors also effect the strike of a bullet past @ 1000 yds: ambient temp, barrel temp, terrain, spin drift; and wind can effect it even at shorter distances. But all are easily factored in.
The Coriolis and Eotvos effects are constant and measurable. Weather balloons being more greatly effected by the elements and cameras with fish-eye lenses are somewhat more problematic. But believe what you want. To y'all this seems to take on religious overtones. To me it is just a difference of opinion. My take is it won't effect our salvation, unless we make of our opinion an idol. So as long as the effects on my day to day activities remain constant and measurable I don't really care.
I do however prefer my earth round and fluffy. A flat earth would seem to have fell in the oven, but I think God is a better baker than that!

 

[BNR32FAN]

Boy, oh boy, oh boy....you are clearly confused as you're mixing up the theory of gravity with the law of matter and density...not surprised as you've demonstrated to that with many other things.

Learn what density means then admit your error.

Density - Wikipedia

 

[BNR32FAN]

The smoke in a car with the windows rolled up doesn't move at the same rate of speed as the car because it's in a closed environment

Wrong again because everything in the car is moving at the same speed the car is moving. This is why motion is only relevant to whatever you are comparing it to. One might say that a dead bug laying in the floor of a car traveling at 60 mph isn’t moving because it’s laying still in the car, but in comparison to the outside of the car the bug is moving at the same speed of the car. In comparison to the planet the bug is moving the same speed as the planet and in comparison to the galaxy the bug is moving at a tremendous speed, the same speed the galaxy is moving. A smoke stack that is billowing smoke with no wind blowing is moving the same speed as the air around it therefore the smoke rises straight up. If the smoke stack speed or the air speed are not the same as each other then the smoke will not rise straight up.

 

[BNR32FAN]

As for gravity it is an ambiguous term as it comes from the Latin gravitas which is the noun form mean "weighty, heavy, pressure" and as an adjective in Latin it is gravis which means "serious, weighty, heavy, important, etc." In short the concept of gravity is ambiguously telling you that some important force is holding the world in place...but fails to state what this important force is.

Wrong again because the more mass as object has the more gravitational pull it creates.

 

[Humble Penny]

Why do I let myself get suckered into these arguments?
Your balloons were not up long enough and had no reference point in flight. However if we look at something very measurable and even calculable we can see the earths rotation does have practical effects.
You are no doubt familiar with the Coriolis Effect. You can see it at work when you drain your bathtub. But did you know that in long range shooting it also effects the strike of a bullet? If you know your latitude, azimuth, and delta v its' effect can be calculated with an app at any distance.
Coriolis effects the horizontal strike of the round, and the related Eotvos Effect alters the vertical strike.
Both are functions of the earth's rotation. Given the terms you can look them up for yourself, so I am not going to explain them for you.
Several other factors also effect the strike of a bullet past @ 1000 yds: ambient temp, barrel temp, terrain, spin drift; and wind can effect it even at shorter distances. But all are easily factored in.
The Coriolis and Eotvos effects are constant and measurable. Weather balloons being more greatly effected by the elements and cameras with fish-eye lenses are somewhat more problematic. But believe what you want. To y'all this seems to take on religious overtones. To me it is just a difference of opinion. My take is it won't effect our salvation, unless we make of our opinion an idol. So as long as the effects on my day to day activities remain constant and measurable I don't really care.
I do however prefer my earth round and fluffy. A flat earth would seem to have fell in the oven, but I think God is a better baker than that!

But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good;
1 Thessalonians 5:21 NASB1995

I wonder if believers these days really do that or just spout the first thing that comes to mind? This simple video will destroy the made up Coriolis Effect showing a double sink in the northern part of the world--which globalists call northern hemisphere--draining in the opposite direction:

Double Sink Debunks Coriolis Effect

And here's another video exposing the Ecuador sink tourist money sucking trap:

Coriolis Water Trick Exposed

Otherwise you've proven that you make your opinion an idol as you stated that you prefer your earth round and fluffy despite the clear evidence to the contrary.

 

[BNR32FAN]

As concerns the theory itself you can disprove it by filling up a balloon with half air and half helium: and younwill see that it stays suspended in mid air without being pulled down by gravity. Why is this? Because the density of the balloon is at equilibrium with the medium surrounding it. In like manner this would explain why human bodies always fall towards the earth because the density of our bodies are greater than the air surrounding us, and this would explain why without air filling our lungs or any special device assisting us: we sink in the water because our bodies are denser than it.

Density wouldn’t have any effect on displacement without gravity or some other form of inertial force. That’s why things don’t sink in water in space. In zero gravity nothing sinks in water, nothing falls thru the air because gravity is not pulling it in any particular direction.