Does Matthew 24 describe the rapture?

[Douggg]

It's always best to consult with what God said in His own Words and He told us when is Lords Day and its not Sunday, this is a man-made tradition leading people away from obeying God's commandments Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13

Isa 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,
14 Then you shall delight yourself in the Lord;
And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth,
And feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father.
The mouth of the Lord has spoken.”

God said the Sabbath is the holy day of the Lord- meaning there is no other, thus saith the Lord. The Lords day as day 1 in no where in Scripture, its all man-made going against what God said.

Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God.

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord, thus saith the Lord.

Sadly, the Sabbath was changed just as God warned Dan 7:25 that most the world has followed instead of being faithful to God and keeping what He asked us to Remember, obeying Him because He is God, instead of following popular traditions Jesus warned us about Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13. We need to remember the devil has made a counterfeit to everything God made and He warns us of being deceived by him, he said the whole world will be deceived and I believe they have over keeping a day for worship in lieu of a finger-written by God commandment on the day God blessed and sanctified for holy use, instead of keeping holy God said was a day to do works and labors Exo 20:9 something we were warned about Eze 22:26

Yes, the Sabbath was a day set aside as a day of rest, under the terms of the Mt. Sinai covenant.

I think Sunday in Christianity is considered the Lord's day because Jesus rose from the grave on the third day. Jesus was crucified before the Sabbath began as day 1, then day 2 was the Sabbath, day 3 was the day after the Sabbath. Saturday is considered the Sabbath, beginning Friday evening at 6:00 pm until Saturday at 6:00 pm.

So if we put it in today's term, Jesus was crucified on Friday (I think that is called good Friday in Christianity) (day 1).
Then the Sabbath, from Friday 6:00 pm to Saturday 6:00 pm (day 2).
Then Jesus rose from the grave on Sunday (day 3).

 

[Fisherking]

There are no cinematic flashbacks or flash forwards.

There's only 1 reset that I can plausibly see at Revelation 12, because Revelation 10:7 says that the 7th trumpet is the end. and Jesus does not take authority of the entire world.. and then... hand it back over to Satan to give to Antichrist in Revelation 13.

I agree, the 7 Thunders in Rev. 10 are really just the 7 Trumps. I however disagree vehemently that the book of Revelation(BoR) is in Chronological Order, the part you miss is all the 1260 day TIME STAMPS God puts on everything to show us the Chronological Order of the BoR.

Let is start with Rev. 11 to show why/how God gives us Parenthetical Citation Chapters and go from there. then backfill the Wrath of God (chapters 8, 9 and 16). I do this in order to show how the Three Woes shows us Rev. 11 can only be a Parenthetical chapter.

Rev. 11 is a Parenthetical Citation chapter, meaning its not REAL TIME. This should be obvious, we see the Two-witnesses die just after the 2nd Woe (6th Trump) ends and just before the 7th Trump or 3rd Woe begins by the sounding of the 7th Trump.

Well, we see Woes #1 and #2 in Rev. 9, so that should tell you its not REAL TIME per se. Thus when the 7th Trump blows that ends nothing, its not even the real time story, that can be seen in Rev. 15&16 which are really one chapter. The 7 Vials ARE the 3rd Woe. Remember in Rev. 11 it says the 3rd Woe cometh quickly? So, why do we get Parenthetical Citation Chapters? Because that is how God wanted to write the book of Revelation, He wanted to confuse the world about what was coming, but not his followers per se who could dig out the true answers and meanings, as given in Codes, Symbolism and Metaphors with many, many, many Old Testament References.

Everything from Rev. 2 to Rev. 9 runs in perfect chronological order, then we skip to Rev. 16 really 15 and 16 go together. If you look in the first part of Rev. 8 you will see why, the Angels readied the Sounding of the Trumps, then started sounding them or blowing them. In Rev. 15 they do likewise, they ready the Pouring Out of the Vials, then pour them out in Rev. 16.

So, God's Wrath only runs out over three chapters. Rev. 8, 9 and 16. Rev. 6 are not Judgment Seals, they simply Seal up God's Judgments, only as the 7th Seal is loosed over in Rev. 8 does Gods wrath begin to fall.

So, Rev. 8, 9 and then 16 are God's Full Wrath !! Every other chapter is a Parenthetical Citation Chapter, meaning that during this 42 months of Wrath, OTHER THINGS were also going on at the same time period, however, God chooses not to reference them in the Three Wrath Chapters, but instead to make SPECIFIC CHAPTERS or PASSAGES about them elsewhere, in order to detail them in full in a different way. Almost every other chapter match the 1260 days or 42 months timeline of God's Wrath.

The Rev. 10 MYSTERY of the 7 Thunders, I contend thus is simply the 7 Trumps and God telling John not to write down everything he saw but to write it down in a mysterious and secretive form instead, and them Good provided the unique jargon. After the 7th Thunder Sounds time [as we have known it] will be no more.

Rev. 11 is a SPECIFIC chapter about the 1260 days of the Two-witnesses ministry, however that ministry starts BEFORE the Beast comes to power, you know how we know that? Simple Math, both have 1260 day Ordained by God Offices right? So, since the Two-witnesses die at the 2nd Woe and the Beast dies at the 7th Vial (end of 3rd Woe) what does simple math tell us? That the Two-witnesses MUST SHOW UP before the Beast becomes the Beast because their 1260 day Ordinations do not match on a parallel time chart. I contend they are the 1335 Blessing unto Israel, and thus show up BEFFORE the DOTL just as Malachi 4:5 says. Also, in Zechariah 13:8-9 we see that 1/3 of Israel repents then in the very next verse we see that the DOTL arrives (Zech. 14:1) So, the Two-witnesses job is to get Israel to repent before God's Wrath falls. When they do so, then their mission turns to praying down God's Wrath, like Moses foretold God's Wrath to the Egyptians. As the 7th Trump sounds, their mission is COMPLETE, thus God allows them to die, and for only one reason (the do not really die, they have Glorious Bodies) so their 1260 day ministry can be juxtaposed against the Beasts 1260 day "Ministry" as The Beast. We can thus understand all of the TIMELINES. The Two-witnesses show up 75 days before the Beast and "die" 75 days before he dies. 1335 - 1260 = 75. The NUMBERS in Dan. 12 are all that many specific days until ALL THESE WONDERS END (by Jesus at the 2nd coming).

Rev. 12 is not complicated like Rev. 11, Satan chases Israel (the Woman) for 1260 days.

Rev. 13 is the Beast ruling over Israel & THE MANY fir 1260 days. (SAME TIME LINES as Rev. 8, 9 and 16)

Rev. 14 is "The Harvest Chapter", it covers the full 7 years in that all three Harvests must be shown. The 144,000 = All Israel or 5 million seeing as Zech. 13:8-9 says 1/3 will repent (144,000 is a CODE). The Wicked Grapes get Gods Wrath which really happens in Rev. 16:19 in real time. And in Rev. 14:14 we see a FLASH BACK to the Pre Trib. Rapture (you, I, or other men's understandings of this means nothing to God per se). Thus Rev. 14 is the HARVEST CHAPTER s designated by God's descriptions as such.

Rev. 17 is the Harlot chapter, it explains how the Beast and 10 kings kill her off, the Harlot is ALL FALSE RELIGION of All Time. The Harlot (False Religions) always rode the backs of the [Gov.] Beasts as Rev. 17:7 shows us, but on this last Beast's Reign, his 10 Kings (The E.U.) forbid all Religions save Beast Worship, thus this means they Kill her off. This happens over a 42 month period, how do we know this? The 10 Kings rule ONE HOUR with the Beast (Rev. 17:12) who we know the Beast rules for 42 months.

Rev. 18 is the WHOLE WORLD (Babylon) being Judged by God via his 7 Trumpet Judgments which of course last 42 months. Rev. 16:19 shows us that those whom Jesus defeats at Armageddon God calls Babylon the Great (simple right? lol). Babylon falls when Satan falls, Babylon means CONFUSION, and what an apt description, as Satan got the whole world (see Vial #6 the kings of the WHOLE WORLD go to fight against Almighty God at Armageddon) to try and fight their own loving Creator. That is what I call Babylon the Great. Babylon in verses 8 and 10 are Judged on ONE HOUR and in ONE DAY, we see in Rev. 17:12 how ONE HOUR means 42 month, well the Day of the Lord also means 42 months.

Rev. 19 is the Marriage to the Lamb and the Marriage Supper Chapter. Thus it also like Rev. 14 must cover the full 7 years, because we are seen Marrying the Lamb, then returning with him to Armageddon 7 years later (The Bride & Groom remain in the marriage chambers for 7 days/SEVEN YEARS) which is the "Marriage Supper" where we feast on our enemies. ("The Revenge" asked for in Seal #5)

The rest of the chapters 20, 21 and 22 are the Judgment, Hereafter, and Ever-after eternity spent with God.

Otherwise, it's 2 Narratives. from Revelation 4-11, and from Revelation 12-19.

This has been my calling of over 40 years, think about the above things I laid out. I'm not just guessing.

There are contingencies that prevent some things from overlapping:
1. The 144,000 being sealed in Revelation 7, before the Angels are allowed to hurt the planet. That means at no point in time in Revelation 6 were Angels doling out the wrath of God prior to the 6th seal. Bad things happened but it was not the wrath of God, it was all men.

You kind of see it, then you go sideways brothers. CORRECT, the Seals are not Wrath, however that include not even the 6th Seal as being Wrath. Lets SIMPPLIFY THIS, in story book fashion. Jesus starts UNSLEALING a scroll that has all God's Wrath written down inside, as he unseal each of the 7 Wax Ring Seals, he prophesies about God's coming Wrath and this Anti-Christ/Beast man. In the first 5 Seals he speaks about what the Anti-Christs 42 month reign of terror will bring onto mankind, 1.) He Conquers for 42 months which = White Horse 2.) He Brings War of 42 months = Red Horse 3.) His rule and wars bring 42 months of Famine = Black Horse 4.) His 42 months of Tyranny brings Death, Sickness and the Grave/Hades = the Pale Green Horse. 5.) He Martyrs/Kills the Gentile Christians who live in the region he reigns over, the E.U., Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region only. The Jews (144,000 a code for 5 Million Jews = the 1/3) are protected by God Himself. So, he gives a Prophetic Utterance about the coming Anti-Christ first.

Now on to God's soon to come Wrath, Jesus opens the 6th Seal and Prophesies about the coming Wrath of God. It will only begin however starting in Revelation Chapter 8, AFTER the "144,000" have been sealed AND protected by God in the Petra/Bozra region. ONLY THEN........will the 7th Seal is be opened over in Revelation chapter 8 !! God thus starts HURTING, the Trees (1/3 burn) the Seas and the Earth via a huge Asteroid that smashes into the Sea (Pacific Ocean) just off the California/Mexico Coastline. We see this ONE VEVENT in Four Phases, it breaks apart and the burning Sulfur burns 1/3 of the trees or the New World's Trees, the 1/3 designates its impact point (New World = 1/3 of the Landmass). Then in Trump #2 we see THE IMPACT. In Trump #3 we see the FALLOUT of the impact which poisons 1/3 of the Fresh Waters (think in the New World Only......and by the way, the Pacific Ocean covers 1/3 of the globe, uncanny right? lol) then finally we see Trump #4 which is the Sun & Moon dimming by 1/3 and the moon looks to be Blood Red by why? The Fires on earth create tons of smoke that filter out the suns true light, AND with all those trees burning, the moon will indeed have a Red Hue to it, no doubt. So, Seal #6 is just the First Four Trumps coming to pass in full. Then we have only the Three Woes left which comes from Trumps 5, 6 and 7.

Finish later..........getting long

 

[Douggg]

@SabbathBlessings

I think the Jewish names for the days of the week, corresponding to our weekly day names, are:

day 1 - Sunday - Yom Rishon
day 2 - Monday - Yom Sheni
day 3 - Tuesday - Yom Shlishi
day 4 - Wednesday - Yom Revi'i
day 5 - Thursday - Yom Chamishi
day 6 - Friday - Yom Shishi
day 7 - Saturday - Shabbat

If we left out our weekly day names, then...

day 1 - Yom Rishon
day 2 - Yom Sheni
day 3 - Yom Shlishi
day 4 - Yom Revi'i
day 5 - Yom Chamishi
day 6 - Yom Shishi
day 7 - Shabbat

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Yes, the Sabbath was a day set aside as a day of rest, under the terms of the Mt. Sinai covenant.

This is not true. The Sabbath started at Creation according to God's own Testimony

Exo 20:11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Jesus in His own words said the Sabbath was made for man, man was made on the 6th day before the very first Sabbath. The Sabbath started before sin and the fall of man and was made the way God intended before sin entered.

I think Sunday in Christianity is considered the Lord's day because Jesus rose from the grave on the third day.

I prefer not to go by what we think, but what Scripture says. God only has one holy day and He defined that clearly in His own Words. Exo 20:10 Isa 58:13 The Sabbath is the holy day of the Lord, thus saith the Lord, so it means there is only one. You will not find anywhere in Scripture day is is My holy day, the Lords day and day God sanctified or a day of worship, this only belongs to the Sabbath all according to thus saith the Lords. All other days are days for work and labor.

Jesus was crucified before the Sabbath began as day 1, then day 2 was the Sabbath, day 3 was the day after the Sabbath. Saturday is considered the Sabbath, beginning Friday evening at 6:00 pm until Saturday at 6:00 pm.

Jesus was crucified on Friday, rested on the seventh day Sabbath and rose on the first day of the week. Not once did Jesus ever mention a change to His Sabbath commandment. This is a man-made holiday/tradition leading people to break one of Gods commandments, something Jesus warned us about in strong words. Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13

So if we put it in today's term, Jesus was crucified on Friday (I think that is called good Friday in Christianity) (day 1).
Then the Sabbath, from Friday 6:00 pm to Saturday 6:00 pm (day 2).

The Sabbath is from evening to evening, not from 6pm to 6pm Lev 23:32

Then Jesus rose from the grave on Sunday (day 3).

Amen! Yet said nothing about changing His commandments. Its just a matter of who we are going to obey. The popular traditions of man, or obey the commandments of God, written and spoken on the authority of God, His personal Testimony which there is no greater than He Exo 32:16.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

@SabbathBlessings

I think the Jewish names for the days of the week, corresponding to our weekly day names, are:

day 1 - Sunday - Yom Rishon
day 2 - Monday - Yom Sheni
day 3 - Tuesday - Yom Shlishi
day 4 - Wednesday - Yom Revi'i
day 5 - Thursday - Yom Chamishi
day 6 - Friday - Yom Shishi
day 7 - Saturday - Shabbat

If we left out our weekly day names, then...

day 1 - Yom Rishon
day 2 - Yom Sheni
day 3 - Yom Shlishi
day 4 - Yom Revi'i
day 5 - Yom Chamishi
day 6 - Yom Shishi
day 7 - Shabbat

God only gave a name and numbered one day in the Bible and that is the seventh day Sabbath Exo 20:10. All other days were simply day 1 day 2 day 3 etc.

 

[Douggg]

This is not true. The Sabbath started at Creation according to God's own Testimony

Exo 20:11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

The sabbath was not given for man to keep until the Jews exited their time in Egypt.

Here is a search on the sabbath.

SABBATH IN THE BIBLE

See 'sabbath' instances in the King James Version (KJV).

www.kingjamesbibleonline.org

 

[Douggg]

Amen! Yet said nothing about changing His commandments. Its just a matter of who we are going to obey. The popular traditions of man, or obey the commandments of God, written and spoken on the authority of God, His personal Testimony which there is no greater than He Exo 32:16.

Christians embrace the cross and empty grave. The keeping of the sabbath was given to the children of Israel to keep.

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The sabbath was not given for man to keep until the Jews exited their time in Egypt.

Here is a search on the sabbath.

SABBATH IN THE BIBLE

See 'sabbath' instances in the King James Version (KJV).

www.kingjamesbibleonline.org

Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27, man was created on the 6th day before the very first Sabbath at Creation Exo 20:11 man was made in the image an likeness of God. I find it hard to believe that when God rested on the seventh day at Creation that man didn't also rest with God on the very first Sabbath. God indicated man did when He used the word "Remember" in the Sabbath commandment Exo 20:8 and taking us back to Creation when it first started Exo 20:11. I am going to stick with the Testimony of God, but I am ok agreeing to disagree.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Christians embrace the cross and empty grave. The keeping of the sabbath was given to the children of Israel to keep.

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

I know this is a popular teaching, but there is some context you left out as there are more than one Sabbath in the scripture and the weekly Sabbath has nothing to do with food, drink, feasts, this is all pointing to the ceremonial laws that were handwritten by Moses, not the Ten Commandments written by the finger of God.

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

14 Blotting out the handwriting - not what was finger written by GOD Exo 31:18

of ordinances not the commandments of God Exo 20:6

that was against us, which was contrary to us,, not what was blessed and is holy and sanctified by God Exo 20:8-11 Gen 2:11

and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; so not any one of the Ten Commandments as JESUS said the Sabbath would be kept until His Second Coming long after the Cross Mat 24:20 Rev 22:14 and for eternity Isa 66:23

Paul never countermanded one of God's commandments so Col 2:16 is not about the weekly Sabbath finger written by God, but about the annual feasts days that had to do with food and drink offerings that some were annual sabbath(s) that was handwritten ordinances by Moses placed outside the ark of the covenant as a witness against Deut 31:24-26 the whole context of this passage that everyone cuts off for some strange reason. Not even what Paul or the apostles believed as they faithfully kept every Sabbath in the same manner as Christ. If we abide in Christ John 15:5-10 we follow His example 1 John 2:6

 

[Jamdoc]

I agree, the 7 Thunders in Rev. 10 are really just the 7 Trumps. I however disagree vehemently that the book of Revelation(BoR) is in Chronological Order, the part you miss is all the 1260 day TIME STAMPS God puts on everything to show us the Chronological Order of the BoR.

Let is start with Rev. 11 to show why/how God gives us Parenthetical Citation Chapters and go from there. then backfill the Wrath of God (chapters 8, 9 and 16). I do this in order to show how the Three Woes shows us Rev. 11 can only be a Parenthetical chapter.

Rev. 11 is a Parenthetical Citation chapter, meaning its not REAL TIME. This should be obvious, we see the Two-witnesses die just after the 2nd Woe (6th Trump) ends and just before the 7th Trump or 3rd Woe begins by the sounding of the 7th Trump.

Well, we see Woes #1 and #2 in Rev. 9, so that should tell you its not REAL TIME per se. Thus when the 7th Trump blows that ends nothing, its not even the real time story, that can be seen in Rev. 15&16 which are really one chapter. The 7 Vials ARE the 3rd Woe. Remember in Rev. 11 it says the 3rd Woe cometh quickly? So, why do we get Parenthetical Citation Chapters? Because that is how God wanted to write the book of Revelation, He wanted to confuse the world about what was coming, but not his followers per se who could dig out the true answers and meanings, as given in Codes, Symbolism and Metaphors with many, many, many Old Testament References.

Everything from Rev. 2 to Rev. 9 runs in perfect chronological order, then we skip to Rev. 16 really 15 and 16 go together. If you look in the first part of Rev. 8 you will see why, the Angels readied the Sounding of the Trumps, then started sounding them or blowing them. In Rev. 15 they do likewise, they ready the Pouring Out of the Vials, then pour them out in Rev. 16.

So, God's Wrath only runs out over three chapters. Rev. 8, 9 and 16. Rev. 6 are not Judgment Seals, they simply Seal up God's Judgments, only as the 7th Seal is loosed over in Rev. 8 does Gods wrath begin to fall.

So, Rev. 8, 9 and then 16 are God's Full Wrath !! Every other chapter is a Parenthetical Citation Chapter, meaning that during this 42 months of Wrath, OTHER THINGS were also going on at the same time period, however, God chooses not to reference them in the Three Wrath Chapters, but instead to make SPECIFIC CHAPTERS or PASSAGES about them elsewhere, in order to detail them in full in a different way. Almost every other chapter match the 1260 days or 42 months timeline of God's Wrath.

The Rev. 10 MYSTERY of the 7 Thunders, I contend thus is simply the 7 Trumps and God telling John not to write down everything he saw but to write it down in a mysterious and secretive form instead, and them Good provided the unique jargon. After the 7th Thunder Sounds time [as we have known it] will be no more.

Rev. 11 is a SPECIFIC chapter about the 1260 days of the Two-witnesses ministry, however that ministry starts BEFORE the Beast comes to power, you know how we know that? Simple Math, both have 1260 day Ordained by God Offices right? So, since the Two-witnesses die at the 2nd Woe and the Beast dies at the 7th Vial (end of 3rd Woe) what does simple math tell us? That the Two-witnesses MUST SHOW UP before the Beast becomes the Beast because their 1260 day Ordinations do not match on a parallel time chart. I contend they are the 1335 Blessing unto Israel, and thus show up BEFFORE the DOTL just as Malachi 4:5 says. Also, in Zechariah 13:8-9 we see that 1/3 of Israel repents then in the very next verse we see that the DOTL arrives (Zech. 14:1) So, the Two-witnesses job is to get Israel to repent before God's Wrath falls. When they do so, then their mission turns to praying down God's Wrath, like Moses foretold God's Wrath to the Egyptians. As the 7th Trump sounds, their mission is COMPLETE, thus God allows them to die, and for only one reason (the do not really die, they have Glorious Bodies) so their 1260 day ministry can be juxtaposed against the Beasts 1260 day "Ministry" as The Beast. We can thus understand all of the TIMELINES. The Two-witnesses show up 75 days before the Beast and "die" 75 days before he dies. 1335 - 1260 = 75. The NUMBERS in Dan. 12 are all that many specific days until ALL THESE WONDERS END (by Jesus at the 2nd coming).

Rev. 12 is not complicated like Rev. 11, Satan chases Israel (the Woman) for 1260 days.

Rev. 13 is the Beast ruling over Israel & THE MANY fir 1260 days. (SAME TIME LINES as Rev. 8, 9 and 16)

Rev. 14 is "The Harvest Chapter", it covers the full 7 years in that all three Harvests must be shown. The 144,000 = All Israel or 5 million seeing as Zech. 13:8-9 says 1/3 will repent (144,000 is a CODE). The Wicked Grapes get Gods Wrath which really happens in Rev. 16:19 in real time. And in Rev. 14:14 we see a FLASH BACK to the Pre Trib. Rapture (you, I, or other men's understandings of this means nothing to God per se). Thus Rev. 14 is the HARVEST CHAPTER s designated by God's descriptions as such.

Rev. 17 is the Harlot chapter, it explains how the Beast and 10 kings kill her off, the Harlot is ALL FALSE RELIGION of All Time. The Harlot (False Religions) always rode the backs of the [Gov.] Beasts as Rev. 17:7 shows us, but on this last Beast's Reign, his 10 Kings (The E.U.) forbid all Religions save Beast Worship, thus this means they Kill her off. This happens over a 42 month period, how do we know this? The 10 Kings rule ONE HOUR with the Beast (Rev. 17:12) who we know the Beast rules for 42 months.

Rev. 18 is the WHOLE WORLD (Babylon) being Judged by God via his 7 Trumpet Judgments which of course last 42 months. Rev. 16:19 shows us that those whom Jesus defeats at Armageddon God calls Babylon the Great (simple right? lol). Babylon falls when Satan falls, Babylon means CONFUSION, and what an apt description, as Satan got the whole world (see Vial #6 the kings of the WHOLE WORLD go to fight against Almighty God at Armageddon) to try and fight their own loving Creator. That is what I call Babylon the Great. Babylon in verses 8 and 10 are Judged on ONE HOUR and in ONE DAY, we see in Rev. 17:12 how ONE HOUR means 42 month, well the Day of the Lord also means 42 months.

Rev. 19 is the Marriage to the Lamb and the Marriage Supper Chapter. Thus it also like Rev. 14 must cover the full 7 years, because we are seen Marrying the Lamb, then returning with him to Armageddon 7 years later (The Bride & Groom remain in the marriage chambers for 7 days/SEVEN YEARS) which is the "Marriage Supper" where we feast on our enemies. ("The Revenge" asked for in Seal #5)

The rest of the chapters 20, 21 and 22 are the Judgment, Hereafter, and Ever-after eternity spent with God.


This has been my calling of over 40 years, think about the above things I laid out. I'm not just guessing.


You kind of see it, then you go sideways brothers. CORRECT, the Seals are not Wrath, however that include not even the 6th Seal as being Wrath. Lets SIMPPLIFY THIS, in story book fashion. Jesus starts UNSLEALING a scroll that has all God's Wrath written down inside, as he unseal each of the 7 Wax Ring Seals, he prophesies about God's coming Wrath and this Anti-Christ/Beast man. In the first 5 Seals he speaks about what the Anti-Christs 42 month reign of terror will bring onto mankind, 1.) He Conquers for 42 months which = White Horse 2.) He Brings War of 42 months = Red Horse 3.) His rule and wars bring 42 months of Famine = Black Horse 4.) His 42 months of Tyranny brings Death, Sickness and the Grave/Hades = the Pale Green Horse. 5.) He Martyrs/Kills the Gentile Christians who live in the region he reigns over, the E.U., Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region only. The Jews (144,000 a code for 5 Million Jews = the 1/3) are protected by God Himself. So, he gives a Prophetic Utterance about the coming Anti-Christ first.

Now on to God's soon to come Wrath, Jesus opens the 6th Seal and Prophesies about the coming Wrath of God. It will only begin however starting in Revelation Chapter 8, AFTER the "144,000" have been sealed AND protected by God in the Petra/Bozra region. ONLY THEN........will the 7th Seal is be opened over in Revelation chapter 8 !! God thus starts HURTING, the Trees (1/3 burn) the Seas and the Earth via a huge Asteroid that smashes into the Sea (Pacific Ocean) just off the California/Mexico Coastline. We see this ONE VEVENT in Four Phases, it breaks apart and the burning Sulfur burns 1/3 of the trees or the New World's Trees, the 1/3 designates its impact point (New World = 1/3 of the Landmass). Then in Trump #2 we see THE IMPACT. In Trump #3 we see the FALLOUT of the impact which poisons 1/3 of the Fresh Waters (think in the New World Only......and by the way, the Pacific Ocean covers 1/3 of the globe, uncanny right? lol) then finally we see Trump #4 which is the Sun & Moon dimming by 1/3 and the moon looks to be Blood Red by why? The Fires on earth create tons of smoke that filter out the suns true light, AND with all those trees burning, the moon will indeed have a Red Hue to it, no doubt. So, Seal #6 is just the First Four Trumps coming to pass in full. Then we have only the Three Woes left which comes from Trumps 5, 6 and 7.

Finish later..........getting long

well I can sum up that we're to watch signs not count dates, as Jesus' return is not on a known date. You count down days you'll be caught off guard because He comes when not expected. Known dates are kind of a no go.

as for pre-trib rapture? Not biblical. We're not appointed to wrath, but we will have tribulation.
Pre-trib relies on INVENTING 2nd class citizens of heaven "tribulation saints". Which requires post second coming salvation which is.. not biblical. Amos 8 and the Parable of the 10 virgins don't suggest post rapture salvation in fact they seemingly proof against it. Jesus didn't tell the 5 foolish to just wait 7 years. He utterly refused them. The parable of the wise and wicked servant? He didn't give the wicked servant chance to repent later, He cut him to pieces.

It's just not biblical but it's a necessity in order to explain who the saints are that are persecuted during tribulation because God forbid it be you, or me, or anyone else you know.

 

[fli]

What makes up these two commandments- how to love God, how to love man. Please use Scripture to post your answer. Love is very subjective, but love to God and love to man is not, its a call to action Exo 20:6 John 14:15 Exo 20:6 it was literally written out for us by God on what this entails. When we use our own definition of love and not God's 1 John 5:3 we are essentially trying to use our "works" to be saved instead of depending on God's.


If we are abiding in Christ John 15:10, we are following the example of Jesus 1 John 2:6- How did Jesus live what did He teach? He taught a lot more than just two commandments, but these are the summary of what He taught and the summary does not delete the details, either does Scripture delete Scripture. It's never been pick the Scripture we want and ignore everything else, for example, God's works Exo 32:16 does not delete His work here John 6:28, it is actually the opposite, if we believe in Him, we would believe or be live His teachings such as Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 Mat 5:19-30 Mat 19:17-19 John 15:10 Luke 4:16 Isa 56:1-6 John 14:15 Exo 20:6 etc. etc

You are right to love God and to love the brethren are a call for action. But first let me explain something from a scripture that you cited.

1 John 2:6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. NKJV

What does the word ought mean? One meaning is under obligation to do it. We as Christians are under obligation to walk as Jesus walked. Do we have to walk that way? No! If we had to, then our salvation would be a works based salvation. So what obliges us to walk the way Jesus walked? Our love for Jesus. If we love Jesus we will try to obey the OT laws that He wants us to obey.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. NKJV

If you believe in Jesus then He is the end of the law for righteousness. If you believe in Jesus you know that He did the law perfectly. You also know that you have His righteousness. If you are doing the law to be righteous, you do not believe in Him. So why should we try to obey the law? Because we ought to? Why? Because we love Him. If we have obey we are not showing love to Jesus. Because we ought to obey and try to obey, as best we can. we are showing our love for Jesus.

I believe you asked how does obeying the 2 commandments in 1John 3: show love?

John 6:28 Then they said to Him, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?" 29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent." NKJV

To be able to do the works that God wants you to do you must believe in Jesus. Every work done, without believing in Jesus, is no more than filthy rags. It is a work of God because God gave us love, hope and faith in Jesus. And since this is a work of God we need do nothing more that believe in Jesus to be saved.

1 John 3:22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. NKJV

The doing things pleasing in His sight is trying to obey the OT law that He ask us to obey. That is what we are obliged to do. Prior to that the first thing Jesus asked us to do was to have a spiritual mind. A spiritual mind agrees that God's laws are holy, just and good. If Jesus succeeded in changing our mind then we will obey as he convicts us of our sins. After that we keep trying to obey the OT laws that He wants us to. We keep following His convictions and repenting of those things that He convicts us of.

How do the two commandments fulfill the Commandments to love God with all our strength, mind? How do we love our brethren with the love Jesus loved us with? How do we love our neighbor as we love ourselves?

Colossians 1: 3-5 we have the gift of love for the brethren when we have hope in Jesus. This is none other than the love Jesus has for us.

As with any gift from God unless we make sure we start relying on them we have a hard time trusting them in a crisis. By themselves they are sufficient to get is into heaven, if we can trust them when our flesh screams at us in a crisis. If we build up a reliance on them in good times, they will definitely get us through under tribulation.

Since we have the love of Jesus' and use it to love our brethren we are loving God. Anything we do to a believer is doing the same thing to God. Therefore, we are loving the Father as Jesus loved Him.

As for loving our neighbor we are obliged to do it.

Now for a burning question of yours. Why don't we observe the Sabbath?

Mark 2:27 And He said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. 28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath." NKJV

The gentile apostle Paul found it more convenient to go to Church on Sundays.

Acts 13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day and sat down. 15 And after the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, "Men and brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say on." 16 Then Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand said, "Men of Israel, and you who fear God, listen: NKJV

Because on the Sabbath he was taking the gospel to the Jew first. The Church just kept using Sunday as their day of rest. Now if you think that it's more pleasing to God to observe the Sabbath then go ahead. You are still believing in Jesus if you are doing it to please Him and not because you have to.

I hope this meets you approval.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You are right to love God and to love the brethren are a call for action. But first let me explain something from a scripture that you cited.

1 John 2:6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. NKJV

What does the word ought mean? One meaning is under obligation to do it. We as Christians are under obligation to walk as Jesus walked. Do we have to walk that way? No! If we had to, then our salvation would be a works based salvation. So what obliges us to walk the way Jesus walked? Our love for Jesus. If we love Jesus we will try to obey the OT laws that He wants us to obey.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. NKJV

If you believe in Jesus then He is the end of the law for righteousness. If you believe in Jesus you know that He did the law perfectly. You also know that you have His righteousness. If you are doing the law to be righteous, you do not believe in Him. So why should we try to obey the law? Because we ought to? Why? Because we love Him. If we have obey we are not showing love to Jesus. Because we ought to obey and try to obey, as best we can. we are showing our love for Jesus.

I believe you asked how does obeying the 2 commandments in 1John 3: show love?

John 6:28 Then they said to Him, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?" 29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent." NKJV

To be able to do the works that God wants you to do you must believe in Jesus. Every work done, without believing in Jesus, is no more than filthy rags. It is a work of God because God gave us love, hope and faith in Jesus. And since this is a work of God we need do nothing more that believe in Jesus to be saved.

1 John 3:22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. NKJV

The doing things pleasing in His sight is trying to obey the OT law that He ask us to obey. That is what we are obliged to do. Prior to that the first thing Jesus asked us to do was to have a spiritual mind. A spiritual mind agrees that God's laws are holy, just and good. If Jesus succeeded in changing our mind then we will obey as he convicts us of our sins. After that we keep trying to obey the OT laws that He wants us to. We keep following His convictions and repenting of those things that He convicts us of.

How do the two commandments fulfill the Commandments to love God with all our strength, mind? How do we love our brethren with the love Jesus loved us with? How do we love our neighbor as we love ourselves?

Colossians 1: 3-5 we have the gift of love for the brethren when we have hope in Jesus. This is none other than the love Jesus has for us.

As with any gift from God unless we make sure we start relying on them we have a hard time trusting them in a crisis. By themselves they are sufficient to get is into heaven, if we can trust them when our flesh screams at us in a crisis. If we build up a reliance on them in good times, they will definitely get us through under tribulation.

Since we have the love of Jesus' and use it to love our brethren we are loving God. Anything we do to a believer is doing the same thing to God. Therefore, we are loving the Father as Jesus loved Him.

As for loving our neighbor we are obliged to do it.

Now for a burning question of yours. Why don't we observe the Sabbath?

Mark 2:27 And He said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. 28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath." NKJV

The gentile apostle Paul found it more convenient to go to Church on Sundays.

Acts 13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day and sat down. 15 And after the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, "Men and brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say on." 16 Then Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand said, "Men of Israel, and you who fear God, listen: NKJV

Because on the Sabbath he was taking the gospel to the Jew first. The Church just kept using Sunday as their day of rest. Now if you think that it's more pleasing to God to observe the Sabbath then go ahead. You are still believing in Jesus if you are doing it to please Him and not because you have to.

I hope this meets you approval.

You still never answered the question, what is love according to God? You posted we need to love God, but how do we love God according to Him? What makes up the greatest commandments? Please post Scripture to support your findings.



You made a statement

The gentile apostle Paul found it more convenient to go to Church on Sundays.

Because on the Sabbath he was taking the gospel to the Jew first. The Church just kept using Sunday as their day of rest. Now if you think that it's more pleasing to God to observe the Sabbath then go ahead. You are still believing in Jesus if you are doing it to please Him and not because you have to.

But provided no proof to it and our words are not Scripture.

Let me prove to you by Scripture what you are claiming is not so

It wasn't just the Jews keeping the Sabbath

Acts 13:42 [n]So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.

Did Paul tell the Gentiles, I prefer Sunday so instead of meeting on the next Sabbath lets meet on day one and not keep the Sabbath commandment given by God and not follow the path of Jesus who also kept the Sabbath commandment but instead based on my authority against God's written and spoken commandment prefer to keep Sunday over obeying God. Did that happen?

Of course not...

44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.

Why both Jews and Gentiles kept every Sabbath Acts 18:4. There is no every day 1 worship in all of Scripture, I am guessing that's why no Scripture was posted. Its not a commandment of God, its simply a tradition of man leading people away from obeying God's commandments, something Jesus condemned Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13


Sunday keeping over keeping God's Sabbath is one of the biggest hoax along with not obeying God because that's work so instead we should disobey Him and dishonor Him Rom 2:21-23 and sin Rom 7:7 1 John 3:4 James 2:11-12 and be an enmity to God Rom 8:7-8. Jesus said If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15. The Sabbath is a commandment of God, no different than worshipping other gods or murdering our brethren all came from the same unit God's personal Testimony Exo 31:18 Deut 4:13 its a matter of who one is going to place their faith in.

Guess this will get sorted out soon enough, but when Jesus comes all of our fates will be sealed Rev 22:11.

 

[keras]

The gentile apostle Paul found it more convenient to go to Church on Sundays.

Paul was a Jew, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Regarding the Sabbath; It is of no consequence when we choose to gather and worship. Our general, Western system is the work week commences on Monday, therefore Sunday is the seventh day.
Paul said in Colossians 2:16-17, that we must not judge our fellow believers over their chosen day of worship.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

To try to connect the weekly Sabbath to Col 2:14-17 is essentially saying God was against man from Creation because thats when the weekly Sabbath started. Exo 20:11 Gen 2:1-3 This essentially is an attack on the character of God. Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man, the Hebrew word of man here means Adam, the Greek, mankind. Man was made before the first Sabbath that God kept, man was made in God’s image and likeness. The Sabbath points us back to the God of Creation Exo 20:11 God’s Sabbath was meant to bless Isa 56:2 and sanctify Eze 20:12 and a sign between God and man Eze 20:20 and is the holy day of the Lord thy God, thus saith the Lord Isa 58:13 so its impossible for Col 2:14-17 to be about the Sabbath commandment, that Sabbath was made for us, not against us, thus saith the Lord.


There is more than one Sabbath in the scriptures, and there is a warning in scripture about Paul's writings, so we need to study his writings very carefully and make sure we are not using them to teach against what Jesus taught because if we miss what he is trying to say, it comes with some steep warnings, we should take serious.

2 Peter 3:15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.


So lets examine Col 2:16-17.

The context starts before this so lets bring it in so we can try to figure what Paul is saying here and is he teaching something different than Jesus taught, or is there more to the story than the single verse everyone uses.


Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

So we know from these verses Paul is referring to the following

1. something handwritten
2. ordinances
3. was contrary and against
4. nailed to the cross

So is this referring to any of the Ten Commandments?

1. Was the Ten Commandments handwritten?
No: Exo 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

2. Was the Ten Commandments called ordinances?
NO: God said in the Ten Commandments 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

3. Was the Sabbath contrary and against?
NO: Holy and blessed by God is not the definition of contrary and against
Exo 20:11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

4. Was the Sabbath nailed to the Cross?
No! Jesus in His own Words taught the Sabbath would be kept by His faithful decades after the Cross and until the second coming of Jesus Christ Mat 24:20 The Sabbath continues in the New Heaven and New Earth for His saints Isa 66:22-23

So what is Paul referring to.

There is more than one sabbath in the scripture and Paul made it so clear what he was referring to never countermanding Christ on what He taught or how He lived and what even Paul taught as he kept every Sabbath faithful as well Acts 15:21 Acts 18:4 etc

Where does Paul get the words "... against us ... contrary to us..." from, in the context of the passages he is quoting from in the Old Testament, and what does it mean there?

Deuteronomy 31:26 KJB - Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that itmay be there for a witness against thee.

Deuteronomy 31:28 KJB - Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them.

Deuteronomy 30:19 KJB - I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Paul is referring to what was written in the book of the law handwritten by Moses set outside the ark as witness against. Read Col 2:14KJV as the context fits perfectly

The Ten Commandments finger written by God was placed inside the ark of the covenant and we are blessed when keeping Isa 56:2Rev 22:14

What were the ordinances


Deuteronomy 31:26 KJB - Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.";
Colossians 2:14 "handwriting of ordinances";

Ephesians 2:15 "the law of commandments contained in ordinances";

Hebrews 9:1 "... also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.";

Hebrews 9:10 "... meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances ...";

Ezekiel 43:18 "... These are the ordinances of the altar in the day when they shall make it, to offer burnt offerings thereon, and to sprinkle blood thereon."

Luke 1:6 "... walking in all the commandments and ordinances ...";

Numbers 9:12 "They shall leave none of it unto the morning, nor break any bone of it: according to all the ordinances of the passoverthey shall keep it.";

2 Chronicles 33:8 "... to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses."]

It had to do with all the sacrificial system, animal sacrifices feast days that some were also called sabbath(s) written in the book of the law- that all pointed to Jesus and His great sacrifice - the Lamb that takes away the sins of the world. There is no animal sacrifices in the Ten Commandments

Colossians 2 KJB, parallels Ephesians 2 KJB, and Hebrews 9-10 KJB. The language is the same. The "ordinances" in Colossians 2deals with "shadows", such as the daily "meat and drink" offerings of a worldly sanctuary and carnal ordinances, the seasonal "feast days", the monthly"new moons", and the year based "sabbaths", in the singular, every 7 and 50th years, as Paul is citing Psa 98:1-3 Eze 45:17 Ezekiel 45:17 KJB with other texts.

The Sabbath of the LORD thy God is always called "My [as in God's] Sabbaths", and the others in Lev23:4 onward are called "your [the peoples] sabbaths" Lev 26:35 which are "beside [given in addition to] the sabbaths of the LORD" Lev 23:38 KJB. The Ten Commandments, including the Sabbath of the 4th Commandment, are "light" Pro 6:23 Isa 8:20 Isa 51:4 never a "shadow", are "spiritual" Rom 7:14 never "carnal" [ Heb 9:10 KJB].

Colossians 2:14 - "ordinances"
Ephesians 2:15 - "law of commandments contained in ordinances"
Hebrews 9:1 - "ordinances of divine service"
Hebrews 9:10 - "carnal ordinances"

Colossians 2:16 - "in meat, or in drink" [offerings]
Hebrews 9:10 - "meats and drinks" [offerings]

Colossians 2:12 - "also ye are risen with him"
Ephesians 2:6 - "raised us up together"

Colossians 2:16 - "a shadow of things to come"
Ephesians 2:7 - "in the ages to come"
Hebrews 9:11 - "of good things to come"
Hebrews 10:1 - "the law having a shadow of good things to come", "those sacrifices", "offered year by

The weekly Sabbath can’t be a shadow of anything because it points to Creation when God made everything according to His perfect plan before the fall of mankind.

You can read more about this in detail here COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

No matter what man does to the weekly calendar will never change the weekly cycle that was started by God at Creation Gen 1 Gen 2:1-3 just like we know Jesus rose on the first day, the seventh day is still the Sabbath and why almost all ancient languages Saturday means Sabbath.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You are right to love God and to love the brethren are a call for action. But first let me explain something from a scripture that you cited.

1 John 2:6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. NKJV

What does the word ought mean? One meaning is under obligation to do it. We as Christians are under obligation to walk as Jesus walked. Do we have to walk that way? No! If we had to, then our salvation would be a works based salvation. So what obliges us to walk the way Jesus walked? Our love for Jesus. If we love Jesus we will try to obey the OT laws that He wants us to obey.

I have never come across this Scripture- If you love Me- try to obey Me. Or when Jesus forgave, did He ever once say Go and try to sin a little less?

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. NKJV

If you believe in Jesus then He is the end of the law for righteousness. If you believe in Jesus you know that He did the law perfectly. You also know that you have His righteousness. If you are doing the law to be righteous, you do not believe in Him. So why should we try to obey the law? Because we ought to? Why? Because we love Him. If we have obey we are not showing love to Jesus. Because we ought to obey and try to obey, as best we can. we are showing our love for Jesus.

Many misinterpret Paul writings, there is even a warning about this very thing 2 Peter 3:16

Our righteousness comes from Christ, no one is saved by keeping God‘s law because everyone has sinned and broke His law so it would be impossible to have our righteousness by keeping the law, our righteousness comes by faith. Does this mean faith voids the law? God forbid! It establishes the law Rom Rom 3:31. We are saved by grace through faith. Do those who have faith going to disregard what God’s asks and rebel against His commandments and live by the flesh and sin which can’t please God. Rom 8:7-8. Of course not, if we are living by the Spirit in Christ and connected to Him, we will be submitting to His will and want to keep His commandments because we love Him so much and through His power John 14:15-18. The commandments are not kept to be saved, it is a consequence of our salvation in Christ Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14 and living by His every Word Mat 4:4. But let’s not deceive ourselves, disobedience to God and His commandments, will not reconcile us back to Him. Jesus plainly taught when we keep our own laws/traditions over the commandments of God quoting directly from the Ten Commandments, that path leads those who teach and follow them to a ditch, which means off the narrow path Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.
Psa 119:172 My tongue shall speak of Your word, For all Your commandments are righteousness. and His righteousness is everlasting Psa 119:142

The choice is ours who we want to obey and whoever we obey is who we serve and decides which path we are on

Rom 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

 

[Douggg]

I know this is a popular teaching, but there is some context you left out as there are more than one Sabbath in the scripture and the weekly Sabbath has nothing to do with food, drink, feasts, this is all pointing to the ceremonial laws that were handwritten by Moses, not the Ten Commandments written by the finger of God.

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

14 Blotting out the handwriting - not what was finger written by GOD Exo 31:18

of ordinances not the commandments of God Exo 20:6

that was against us, which was contrary to us,, not what was blessed and is holy and sanctified by God Exo 20:8-11 Gen 2:11

and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; so not any one of the Ten Commandments as JESUS said the Sabbath would be kept until His Second Coming long after the Cross Mat 24:20 Rev 22:14 and for eternity Isa 66:23

Paul never countermanded one of God's commandments so Col 2:16 is not about the weekly Sabbath finger written by God, but about the annual feasts days that had to do with food and drink offerings that some were annual sabbath(s) that was handwritten ordinances by Moses placed outside the ark of the covenant as a witness against Deut 31:24-26 the whole context of this passage that everyone cuts off for some strange reason. Not even what Paul or the apostles believed as they faithfully kept every Sabbath in the same manner as Christ. If we abide in Christ John 15:5-10 we follow His example 1 John 2:6

Keeping the sabbath was a perpetual covenant to the children of Israel.

Exodus 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

As Christians though, as a new creation in Christ, we are saved under the new covenant of Christ. Keeping the sabbath does not violate that covenant. But keeping the sabbath is not an obligation under the new covenant in Christ.

Sunday is a day of worship, thanking God for our salvation, that combines the principles of the new covenant in Christ based on His death for atonement for our sin sand His resurrection on the third day, and as a day of rest principle of the sabbath.

My avatar to the left, the cross and the rolled aside stone, represents the gospel of salvation which all my hope, joy, and praise is founded on.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Keeping the sabbath was a perpetual covenant to the children of Israel.

Exodus 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

As Christians though, as a new creation in Christ, we are saved under the new covenant of Christ. Keeping the sabbath does not violate that covenant. But keeping the sabbath is not an obligation under the new covenant in Christ.

Sunday is a day of worship, thanking God for our salvation, that combines the principles of the new covenant in Christ based on His death for atonement for our sin and His resurrection on the third day, and as a day of rest principle of the sabbath.

My avatar to the left, the cross and the rolled aside stone, represents the gospel of salvation which all my hope, joy, and praise is founded on.

Amen! And who is the New Covenant made to?

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

God's New Covenant is still made with Israel and still has God's law, just written on a better surface, our hearts. We can be grafted into God's covenant promise though our faith and receive all of the promises Gal 3:26-29 like the Sabbath is a sign of God's sanctification Eze 20:12 because man can't sanctify themselves, Isa 66:17, we need God. And the promise if keeping the Sabbath it is a sign between God and His people Eze 20:20

No wonder why God made so many promises about the Sabbath, made for everyone, thus saith the Lord


Isa 56:1 Thus says the Lord:

“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”

6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”

There is no Sunday sacredness in all of the Bible. There is no commandment to keep Sunday holy, but there is for the Sabbath thus saith the Lord Exo 20:8-11 I guess that's why we see the apostles keeping every Sabbath decades after the death of Jesus Christ Acts 15:21 Acts 13:42,44 Acts 18:4 etc Jesus commissioned them to observe everything He commanded and they observed every Sabbath in the same manner Christ our example did Luke 4:16. Jesus is coming back soon and He said our hearts are far from Him when we keep our traditions over obeying the commandments of God quoting from the same unit of Ten Mat 15:3-14 because it is what man will be judged by James 2:11-12 Ecc 12:13-14 Mat 5:19-30 Rev 22:14 why we see them at the last trumpet right before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ Rev 11:18-19. I personally would not want to remove anything Christ covers under His mercy seat, which are the Ten Commandments, God's personal written and spoken Testimony Exo 31:18. The whole Bible is about the testimony of Jesus Christ through the prophets and apostles, but yet when it comes to God's own personal written and spoken Testimony, people don't believe or want to edit it to fit our human traditions. Its best to let God be God and follow Him the way He said and have faith He knows what He is doing and is only looking after our best interest.

 

[Douggg]

Amen! And who is the New Covenant made to?

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

God's New Covenant is still made with Israel and still has God's law, just written on a better surface, our hearts.

I don't have any problem that the children of Israel (the Jews) in Christ keep the sabbath. But just as the land of Israel is given to the children of Israel as theirs forever, that does not entitle us non-Jews in Christ to lay claim to it.

Christians are not to be judged for keeping sabbath days. It does not say sabbath ordinances in Colossian2:16

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

 

[fli]

I have never come across this Scripture- If you love Me- try to obey Me. Or when Jesus forgave, did He ever once say Go and try to sin a little less?

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. NKJV

In the flesh no man can do the law. All we can do is try. If you think that you can even observe the law as God states you are wrong.

Many misinterpret Paul writings, there is even a warning about this very thing 2 Peter 3:16

2 Peter 3:15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation — as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. NKJV

They are scripture and you are the one misinterpreting.

Our righteousness comes from Christ, no one is saved by keeping God‘s law because everyone has sinned and broke His law so it would be impossible to have our righteousness by keeping the law, our righteousness comes by faith. Does this mean faith voids the law? God forbid! It establishes the law Rom Rom 3:31. We are saved by grace through faith. Do those who have faith going to disregard what God’s asks and rebel against His commandments and live by the flesh and sin which can’t please God. Rom 8:7-8. Of course not, if we are living by the Spirit in Christ and connected to Him, we will be submitting to His will and want to keep His commandments because we love Him so much and through His power John 14:15-18. The commandments are not kept to be saved, it is a consequence of our salvation in Christ Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14 and living by His every Word Mat 4:4. But let’s not deceive ourselves, disobedience to God and His commandments, will not reconcile us back to Him. Jesus plainly taught when we keep our own laws/traditions over the commandments of God quoting directly from the Ten Commandments, that path leads those who teach and follow them to a ditch, which means off the narrow path Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13

Faith does not void the law, yes.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. NKJV

Why do you still try to do the law when Jesus did it for you. Jesus said the greatest commandment was Deut 6:5 and the second was Lev 19:18. Both those two cover the10 commandments as well as all the law.

If anyone believes in Jesus it is the end of the law for righteousness. If you do not believe that you are righteous by believing in Jesus then you do not completely trust Him to make you righteous. As I wrote in my rely. We are obligated to walk as Jesus walked, that is why John wrote "ought' to walk as Jesus walk. You are saying that Jesus did not do the job of Keeping the law. You think you can walk better than Him. I try to walk like Him. That is good enough to please Him. Why? Because I do it out of love not because I have to. You are trying to walk like Him because you think you have to. If you have to you are working for your salvation.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.
Psa 119:172 My tongue shall speak of Your word, For all Your commandments are righteousness. and His righteousness is everlasting Psa 119:142

The choice is ours who we want to obey and whoever we obey is who we serve and decides which path we are on

Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. NKJV

Paul wanted to practice good but couldn't do it. As he said in the above he practiced the bad that He did not want to do. Are better than Paul? That is why I say we try to do the good. I'm not writing gospel. But I did explain why we had an obligation to try to do good.

Rom 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

I never said that we should practice evil. I said that we ought to practice good.

About the sabbath.

Mark 2:25 But He said to them, "Have you never read what David did when he was in need and hungry, he and those with him: 26 how he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and ate the showbread, which is not lawful to eat except for the priests, and also gave some to those who were with him?" 27 And He said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. 28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath." NKJV

Jesus said they were guiltless, in the Matthew account, not because what they did was not work? No! The reason He gave was because the Sabbath was made for man. When the needs of man required work on the sabbath, they could do what was illegal on the Sabbath. Even in the old Testiment if it wasneeded that you to do work on the Sabbath you were not guilty of a sin. Jesus should know if the disciples were guilty of breaking the sabath. Now to explain why the church keeps the first day of the week as their sabbath.


I cited Acts 13:14-18 in my post to explain why Paul worked on the Sabbath and had the Churches meet on the first day of the week. I will cite more scriptures of Paul working on the Sabbath.

Acts 13:44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God. 45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and contradicting and blaspheming, they opposed the things spoken by Paul. 46 Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, "It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles. 47 For so the Lord has commanded us; 'I have set you as a light to the Gentiles, That you should be for salvation to the ends of the earth.'" 48 Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. NKJV

Paul worked on the Sabbath. He had to because the gospel was to the Jew first.

Acts 14:1 Now it happened in Iconium that they went together to the synagogue of the Jews, and so spoke that a great multitude both of the Jews and of the Greeks believed. NKJV

Once again to the Jew first in the synagogue.

Acts 16:12 And we were staying in that city for some days. 13 And on the Sabbath day we went out of the city to the riverside, where prayer was customarily made; and we sat down and spoke to the women who met there. NKJV

According to my Jewish commentary if the city had no synagogue the Jews would meet by a river to pray and hold fellowship.

Acts 17:1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. 2 Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and demonstrating that the Christ had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and saying, "This Jesus whom I preach to you is the Christ." 4 And some of them were persuaded; and a great multitude of the devout Greeks, and not a few of the leading women, joined Paul and Silas. NKJV

There Paul is again working in the synagogue preaching the gospel to the Jews.

Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks. NKJV

Paul stayed a year and half in Corinth. Every sabbath until they kicked him out Paul was in the synagogue working. Because Paul, went to where the Jews meet on the sabbath, he had to name another day to meet with the Church.

Acts 20:7 Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight NKJV

The first day of the week when the disciples came together to break bread. That was all the believers in the city came together to take the Lord's supper.

1 Corinthians 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given orders to the churches of Galatia, so you must do also: 2 On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper NKJV

Why did all the churches in Galatia and the Corinthian church have orders to gather their gifts to God on the first day of the week? Because Paul needed a day to meet with the Churches that he started. If at all possible he set aside the Sabbath to take the gospel to the Jews. He found that the day of worship for the churches needed be changed to another day. The day for meeting with the churches is the first day of the week a day is known as the Lord's day. Why could Paul do that and not be called least in the kingdom of God? Because the sabbath was made to meet mans needs. God told him to go to the Jew first on the day they gathered. Paul needed to find a day that he could meet the church and teach them.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I don't have any problem that the children of Israel (the Jews) in Christ keep the sabbath. But just as the land of Israel is given to the children of Israel as theirs forever, that does not entitle us non-Jews in Christ to lay claim to it.

Christians are not to be judged for keeping sabbath days. It does not say sabbath ordinances in Colossian2:16

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man, He never said Israel never said Jew. Mark 2:27 and the Sabbath is for everyone Isa 56:6. I think we need to get serious about this because Jesus is coming soon. The Sabbath will continue for all flesh in the New Heaven and New Earth Isa 66:22-23 and if we are so opposed to the Sabbath now, God would never make one spend eternity keeping the Sabbath coming before Him to worship one Sabbath to another, its why His judgment is one of love.

Regarding Col 2:16-17, you already posted this before and you should keep in mind, misunderstanding Paul can be a salvation issue 2 Peter 3:16 , so not something to take lightly. You again didn't quote the context, I quoted it with a detailed response, but you didn't respond. Here it is again in case you missed it.

Does Matthew 24 describe the rapture?

It's always best to consult with what God said in His own Words and He told us when is Lords Day and its not Sunday, this is a man-made tradition leading people away from obeying God's commandments Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 Isa 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, From doing your...

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