Your argument is viciously circular sir.
Hey hey cvanwey my dear ;p
Circular logic is when A is true because B is true; B is true because A is true. I guess a form of it might be Jesus Christ is God. Therefore, Jesus Christ is God. I do not believe iam guilty of such a thing.
Interesting, lets check out another example from wiki.
Whatever is less dense than water will float, because whatever is less dense than water will float. However Whatever is less dense than water will float, because such objects won't sink in water' might pass. This example supplys a reason.
Anyways i chose those verses for a reason, because - with the exception of 2 cor 4:4 - they are claims made by Jesus about who He is in relation to God and lucifer. I also chose them to see how you would react and to keep our conversation flowing. ;p I chose 2 cor 4:4 because i accept Paul as an authority.
So 2 cor is more an appeal to authority - but i can argue that yielding to an expert can be justified. That appeal becomes a question of trust and an arguement why it should be trusted.
You are using the very words of the perpetrator, whom was tricking the people he was trying to convince.
Im quoting the words of Jesus to show you what He claimed about Himself. Someone may say to me who is Jesus, how then show i answer if not with what He said?
If i was to ask you who is Jesus how would you answer and what body of information would you use to base it off? What you have done is made an accusation that Jesus is a trickster and a fraud. How do you prove this accusation and by what authority?
As stated originally, several times now; Satan has the ability to lie, deceive, and perform tricks.
Im curious, do you base this conclusion from OT verses or through NT verses? What is your authority that satan is a lair and etc? Why do you believe Jesus that is lucifer? "demonstrate why Jesus was not actually Lucifer." What type of evidence do you expect - from me - which would demonstrate why Jesus was not actually Lucifer?
Which would later spawn individuals to write such documentation (i.e.) the NT.
What is do you mean here?
You can't use the NT to prove the NT
Fair enough.
Lets consider the below verse John 14:9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? So it would be pointless to quote this verse in general or ever? What are we to do with this verse? Is there ever a time i can quote this verse?
This is exactly what such a person of deceit is wanting to achieve all along.
So if such a person wants to acheive such things, can you give a reason as to why this person does? Why and what do you think?
No it does not. Anyone can lie, deceive, and trick.
So how do i know you are not deceived and trying to deceive me? What offer can you give me as opposed to the offer of salvation through Jesus Christ? Why should we Christians listen to you?
Furthermore, couple this with a few magic tricks thrown in, for good measure, and you have the perfect recipe for ultimate trickery.
What magic tricks do you refer to?
(i.e.) Pretending he is a messiah, and having many fall for such a scheme.
Lets say one day i hear about Jesus Christ and how to become saved. I followed the steps and became filled with the Holy Spirit. This experience effects me in such a way that here im - wasting my time - imploring you about Jesus. What do you think about this in relation to the statement you made?
Maybe it's all non-believers in the Christ, whom are correct; whom worship an alternate claimed god(s), or no supernatural being(s) at all?
The question is do you believe this to be so? If yes, what convinced you?
As stated many times now, Satan's goal appears to be harvesting as many souls as possible; to dwell with him in his environment. Getting many to worship the wrong deity would certainly accomplish this task.
How did you reach this conclusion? What do you base it off and do you agree with said scripture?
Old Testament story..., not relevant.
My dear, very relevant! ;p I would like to bring your attention to a statement in your own post. Job 1 7-12 is relevant.
Cvanwey - "Unless Yahweh disallows this action, which begs the question as to why God would allow all other persuaded acts perpetrated or initiated by Lucifer."
One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satanalso came with them. Job 1 7 - 12
7 The LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” Satan answered the LORD, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”
8 Then the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.”
9“Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied.
10 “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land.
11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.”
12 The LORD said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.” Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.
Lucifer can only act in the confines that God allows him to act. Lucifer has a license in a sense. Lucifer can only act under limitations. What you think?
Lucifer came to pass himself as a messiah, to trick people into worshiping a false god, using NT criteria.
You seem to be suggesting that lucifer passed himself of as The Christ ie Jesus, how do you prove this? I received the Spirit when i accepted Christ? What do you believe this thing inside me is? Do you accept OT as authority?
I feel you have your hands full enough with this topic already, but thank you for asking
I do mind. Check out how long this post is so far - but i agree we should not indulge in length but indulge me, what in particular about verse 18 do you want to discuss?
You cannot have the NT, while getting rid of the OT.
Please excuse me. I did not suggest we remove the OT. Its apart of my Bible and foundtain. What in particular are you having trouble understanding with regards to OT, NT, law of moses and law of grace?
Otherwise, you must also ignore the commandments and prophecy.
We do not ignore these. Ask me what you need to ask?
Even 'Jesus', whom is Satan in disguise,
I disgaree.
does not distinguish specifically which laws to no longer adhere to.
Jesus said On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. When Jesus was down here, He was under the law of moses and He was under the law of moses when Died - and He kept it perfectly. That was the problem when the sanhredrin came to ping Him. He was judged by the sanhedrin as blasphemous which carried the death penalty.
He also said this "For verily I say unto you, Till. heaven and earth pass, one jot or one. tittle shall in no wise pass from. the law, till all be fulfilled." Fulfilled is noteworthy. Very relevant!
Jesus did not specify which parts of law or what should be superceded. The revelation of the law of Grace didnt come home to the disciples until the day of Pentecost. Jesus taught the disciples about things to come and he said to wait until they received the Spirit and they would recall all the things He taught them. The law of Grace was revealed through Jesus by the Holy Spirit. John 16:7-8 "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you The comforter is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is instrumental revealing the will of God to Christ's followers. To sum the law of grace was revelation to the believers, they no longer had Jesus to teach and expound things. They needed and got the Holy Spirit to teach, and encourage - as seen in John 16:7 What you think?
But even if he did, he is Satan, so who cares
What type of logic is this? What is your point here? How does this work? Cheers you diamond
