Does love for latin lead to spiritual pride?

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

A pushing question to some.
I've thought about it and I do love how latin flows in my mouth.
I love the sacred history attached to it's liturgical use and its piety in the life of Holy Mother Church.

When I'm praying in latin I'm a bit proud of doing so and I'm curious to discern if this pride can possibly be sinful?

I'm not condescending about those who don't know the language or by heart that is, but I really miss the latin preVii era in church.

Does anyone have any input?

 

[bill5]

I don't doubt for some it can help and if so, more power to them.

We're taught pride is sinful and while that can often be so, I don't think it's ALWAYS so, as long as it's very modest and held in check and carefully guarded against. It's one thing to feel good about one's self for this or that, quite another to puff our chests out in an "oooh I'm so great" kinda way. But I think/hope that's stating the obvious..

 

[chevyontheriver]

A pushing question to some.
I've thought about it and I do love how latin flows in my mouth.
I love the sacred history attached to it's liturgical use and its piety in the life of Holy Mother Church.

When I'm praying in latin I'm a bit proud of doing so and I'm curious to discern if this pride can possibly be sinful?

I'm not condescending about those who don't know the language or by heart that is, but I really miss the latin preVii era in church.

Does anyone have any input?

Would it be prideful if you could pray in Aramaic, the language Jesus used day to day? Or in Hebrew? Or even in Algonquin? Maybe.

Pray the way the congregation prays. If it is 'Agnus Dei qui tollis peccata mundi' then run with it. Enjoy the beauty of it. But if they're all saying 'Lamb of God' and you are saying 'Agnus Dei' then you have a problem. Otherwise not.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

Would it be prideful if you could pray in Aramaic, the language Jesus used day to day? Or in Hebrew? Or even in Algonquin? Maybe.

Pray the way the congregation prays. If it is 'Agnus Dei qui tollis peccata mundi' then run with it. Enjoy the beauty of it. But if they're all saying 'Lamb of God' and you are saying 'Agnus Dei' then you have a problem. Otherwise not.

The topic isn't Sunday worship, but private prayer.

 

[Michie]

I think anything can lead to spiritual pride. People pride themselves on anything. Look at the scenarios that play out on the board with people that lable themselves conservative or liberal. Atheist or Christian. Pagan, Buddhist, whatever. There aren't many that don't try to pin their whole identity on thinking they are somehow different than the rest of the herd. I think our faith should guide us and form us not the other way around but when people play the comparison game, everything falls short. Pride is an easy thing to spot in others but not ourselves. We need to concentrate on grace and the gifts each one of us have. Enjoying private prayer in whatever language imo, is a blessing as long as we do not look at others who do not pray that way as less than yourself.

 

[chevyontheriver]

The topic isn't Sunday worship, but private prayer.

That wasn't clear, especially because you used the term 'liturgical use', which implies public prayer.

If you are good enough in Latin to do a Latin spontaneous prayer, then you have something to actually be proud of. If it's praying the 'Our Father' and other set prayers in Latin, then not so much. IMHO, don't worry about it.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

My first exposure to Latin was in a city college choir when we did the Magnificat. And my impression of it was that it seemed like a divine language. Coincidentally or by divine providence, this was during the time when I was going through RCIA, when I didn't know the history of Latin use in the Church's liturgy. It didn't produce pride in me. The beauty of the Latin Magnificat only made me think of how awesome God is.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

My first exposure to Latin was in a city college choir when we did the Magnificat. And my impression of it was that it seemed like a divine language. Coincidentally or by divine providence, this was during the time when I was going through RCIA, when I didn't know the history of Latin use in the Church's liturgy. It didn't produce pride in me. The beauty of the Latin Magnificat only made me think of how awesome God is.

I take it you've seen the YouTube clip of the Holy Father Papa John Paul ii praying Pater Noster in St Peter's Basilica ?

A great great pope!

 

[AvilaSurfer]

There's a difference between being proud and being prideful. If you feel like you're better than me because I can't pray in Latin, that's a problem. God knows your heart.

 

[mea kulpa]

There's a difference between being proud and being prideful. If you feel like you're better than me because I can't pray in Latin, that's a problem. God knows your heart.

Exactly, we should be proud that we believe in Jesus but it should not lead us to think we are any better than those who dont. It is entirely by the grace of God that we can even confess jesus. It not prideful to be proud of being connected to our traditional roots but to believe that by being so we are better than others is prideful

 

[Open Heart]

A pushing question to some.
I've thought about it and I do love how latin flows in my mouth.
I love the sacred history attached to it's liturgical use and its piety in the life of Holy Mother Church.

When I'm praying in latin I'm a bit proud of doing so and I'm curious to discern if this pride can possibly be sinful?

I'm not condescending about those who don't know the language or by heart that is, but I really miss the latin preVii era in church.

Does anyone have any input?

There is nothing intrinsically snobbish about Latin. But Satan can twist the use of Latin into a snobbish thing. Satan is always there trying to twist EVERYTHING into a sin. He is not original. He takes good things and perverts them. Pride is something that can be over the silliest things. You can look down on people who own pets. You can look down on people who don't own pets. You can look down on people who don't have higher education degrees (Plebians). You can look down on people who DO have higher education degrees (Snobs). So yes, it's possible to look down on people who don't use Latin (they are not as spiritual, not as devout, as me). Just as it is possible to look down on people who DO use Latin (what Pharisees, medieval Snobs).

You have to ask yourself what you are really feeling. Is it a source of pleasure that you are speaking Latin? If so, that's fine. Latin itself is a lovely language with its wide open vowels and soft consonants. Is it a feeling of goodness that you have? After all, there is a richness in that Latin connects us with centuries of Church history. One really DOES have "more" than the person who experiences the Mass only in English, and one can humbly appreciate this the same way one can appreciate being born into a wealthy family. Is it a source of arrogance you feel, that you are better, more spiritual, more devout, etc., than other Catholics who can only experience the Mass in the Vernacular? Then you are in spiritual danger.

"Blessed are the poor(humble) in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:3

If you believe you are having trouble with spiritual pride concerning Latin, then ask for God's help in planning a spiritual discipline regimen that meets your other needs too. Let's say that the Latin Mass is an important part of bringing you together with Christ in worship, so you don't want to get rid of that. But perhaps once every two months, you might deliberately go to a NO Mass as a way of consciously handing over your pride to the Lord. Every time the thought comes into your head,"this is not as beautiful as the Latin," you deliberately counter it with, "Look how many people are here being blessed in every way." I'm not saying this is definitely for you. For one thing, I don't know if you really have the problem with pride. But if you did, it's just a suggestion. Go talk with Christ!

 

[Sammy-San]

There is nothing intrinsically snobbish about Latin. But Satan can twist the use of Latin into a snobbish thing. Satan is always there trying to twist EVERYTHING into a sin. He is not original. He takes good things and perverts them. Pride is something that can be over the silliest things. You can look down on people who own pets. You can look down on people who don't own pets. You can look down on people who don't have higher education degrees (Plebians). You can look down on people who DO have higher education degrees (Snobs). So yes, it's possible to look down on people who don't use Latin (they are not as spiritual, not as devout, as me). Just as it is possible to look down on people who DO use Latin (what Pharisees, medieval Snobs).

You have to ask yourself what you are really feeling. Is it a source of pleasure that you are speaking Latin? If so, that's fine. Latin itself is a lovely language with its wide open vowels and soft consonants. Is it a feeling of goodness that you have? After all, there is a richness in that Latin connects us with centuries of Church history. One really DOES have "more" than the person who experiences the Mass only in English, and one can humbly appreciate this the same way one can appreciate being born into a wealthy family. Is it a source of arrogance you feel, that you are better, more spiritual, more devout, etc., than other Catholics who can only experience the Mass in the Vernacular? Then you are in spiritual danger.

"Blessed are the poor(humble) in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:3

If you believe you are having trouble with spiritual pride concerning Latin, then ask for God's help in planning a spiritual discipline regimen that meets your other needs too. Let's say that the Latin Mass is an important part of bringing you together with Christ in worship, so you don't want to get rid of that. But perhaps once every two months, you might deliberately go to a NO Mass as a way of consciously handing over your pride to the Lord. Every time the thought comes into your head,"this is not as beautiful as the Latin," you deliberately counter it with, "Look how many people are here being blessed in every way." I'm not saying this is definitely for you. For one thing, I don't know if you really have the problem with pride. But if you did, it's just a suggestion. Go talk with Christ!

Do you think Latin sounds ominous or stiff?

 

[anna ~ grace]

I take it you've seen the YouTube clip of the Holy Father Papa John Paul ii praying Pater Noster in St Peter's Basilica ?

A great great pope!

 

[Sammy-San]

Do you like Latin?

To me that is beyond liking-it isnt practical.

 

[anna ~ grace]

Do you like Latin?

To me that is beyond liking-it isnt practical.

I do like it. It's expressive, nuanced, beautiful, and neat to listen to, and use.

 

[Open Heart]

Do you think Latin sounds ominous or stiff?

No. I think it sounds beautiful. It flows. It has open vowels and soft consenants compared to other languages, which can be nasal or guttural.

 

[Sammy-San]

No. I think it sounds beautiful. It flows. It has open vowels and soft consenants compared to other languages, which can be nasal or guttural.

In O fortuna it feels very ominous and stif.

 

[anna ~ grace]

In Latin prayers, devotions, and liturgy, many find it beautiful, and a linguistic connection to their past, and heritage in Christ. That's how I see it.

 

[Open Heart]

In O fortuna it feels very ominous and stif.

what is O Fortuna?

I can understand someone saying ominous, because they may have watched too many horror flicks where latin is used for spells and exorcisms. But stiff? Maybe they meant intellectually stiff, as in only an intellectual knows latin. Most higher English words are latin and greek based.

 

[Sammy-San]

I do like it. It's expressive, nuanced, beautiful, and neat to listen to, and use.

What about Native American languages?