Does Light Actually Illuminate?

[Landon Caeli]

It seems like you completely misuse the word "illuminate" in the OP. That might be getting me off track. Or not. Hard to tell.

My argument is that the sun is dark as night, and it's constanty pitch black around us... I say that light does not exist, only photons do, and that our human eyes have evolved to create a mental perception of light and illuminations from otherwise dark photons, for the benefit of our survival.

 

[Landon Caeli]

To you it's old dogma. To others, it's God's truth. It's too bad that you consider the Bible to be "old dogma".

Please don't bring scriptures here. It's completely off topic.

 

[durangodawood]

My argument is that the sun is dark as night, and it's constanty pitch black around us... I say that light does not exist, only photons do, and that our human eyes have evolved to create a mental perception of light and illuminations from otherwise dark photons, for the benefit of our survival.

You call the daylit world as perceived by humans "light".

Whats your justification for calling the 'real world' "dark". How is "dark" not also a designation rooted in human perception?

 

[sjastro]

My argument is that the sun is dark as night, and it's constanty pitch black around us... I say that light does not exist, only photons do, and that our human eyes have evolved to create a mental perception of light and illuminations from otherwise dark photons, for the benefit of our survival.

Light does not exist only photons do?......... dark photons?
Perhaps this will help.
Physics for Kids: Photons and Light

 

[durangodawood]

Light does not exist only photons do?......... dark photons?
Perhaps this will help.
Physics for Kids: Photons and Light

I think he's saying light is an experience rather than a property of things.

 

[Landon Caeli]

What I see from the OP (and subsequent posts) is an attempt to compare what other creatures perceive against what humans perceive, in order to draw conclusions about 'what reality really is'.

Unfortunately, we cannot ever really step into the body of a dolphin then move back into being a human whilst retaining that understanding .. therefore we cannot conclude anything much about 'what reality really is'.

Photons and acoustics are both models developed by humans. We have no idea whether we could ever agree with a dolphin on what those models actually mean. We might observe how a dolphin responds to a bright flash of light .. but that would end up being categorised, (by us), as being how a dolphin behaves under such conditions .. and so its more about us explaining to ourselves 'what a dolphin is' .. and never anything about some 'underlying reality'.

Actually, the whole dolphin thing was an afterthought.

My argument is that our world is very dark in reality, and that light and illuminations were conceived in the eyes and minds of living animals, and don't actually exist as such in the universe. Only photons do.

 

[durangodawood]

Actually, the whole dolphin thing was an afterthought.

My argument is that our world is very dark in reality, and that light and illuminations were conceived in the eyes and minds of living animals, and don't actually exist as such in the universe.

What about heat? Does heat exist?

 

[Landon Caeli]

I think he's saying light is an experience rather than a property of things.

Yes

 

[Landon Caeli]

What about heat? Does heat exist?

Yes, heat exists. So do vibration waves, gravity, etc.

 

[durangodawood]

Yes, heat exists. So do vibration waves.

OK, so you dont consider the propagation of photons to be "light".

So why then do you consider the motion of atoms to be "heat"?

Whats the essential difference here?

 

[durangodawood]

One big problem with this discussion is that "light" is both a noun and an adjective.

When we equivocate between them it throws thinking into chaos.

 

[sjastro]

Actually, the whole dolphin thing was an afterthought.

My argument is that our world is very dark in reality, and that light and illuminations were conceived in the eyes and minds of living animals, and don't actually exist as such in the universe. Only photons do.

What about skin?
Skin is an infrared light detector which we feel in the form of heat.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Duplicate

 

[Landon Caeli]

OK, so you dont consider the propagation of photons to be "light".

So why then do you consider the motion of atoms to be "heat"?

Whats the essential difference here?

The difference is we can't see heat in our mind.

 

[Tinker Grey]

The difference is we can't see heat in our mind.

We *feel* heat in our mind.

 

[Landon Caeli]

We *feel* heat in our mind.

We also feel gravity when we jump, and hear vibrations as "sound", but it's an abstraction to compare these things. And using abstract comparisons to come to a seperate conclusion is pure conjecture.

We're talking about light. And I'm asking for evidence that photons actually illuminate objects in the universe, proving that it's not purely a human (or animal) observation.

 

[sjastro]

We're talking about light. And I'm asking for evidence that photons actually illuminate objects in the universe, proving that it's not purely a human (or animal) observation.

Why does a red piece of paper appear red when illuminated with white light?
This is high school science.
Newton discovered in the 17th century when white light passed through a prism it is composed of a spectrum of seven visible colours.
The paper appears red because all the colours of the spectrum with the exception of red are absorbed by the paper while the red light is reflected.

William Herschel over a century later measured the temperature of each colour in the spectrum and found the temperature increased when going from violet to red.
He also found going beyond the red into the non visible part of the spectrum the infrared, the temperature increased even further.

Light is the real deal and not purely a human observation as it has physical properties such as temperature.

 

[Tinker Grey]

We also feel gravity when we jump, and hear vibrations as "sound", but it's an abstraction to compare these things. And using abstract comparisons to come to a seperate conclusion is pure conjecture.

We're talking about light. And I'm asking for evidence that photons actually illuminate objects in the universe, proving that it's not purely a human (or animal) observation.

Heat is light (at least the heat one feels from the sun). It's just light you don't see. You feel it. Your skin in the sensor for heat that your brain interprets just like your eyes are the sensor for (visible) light that your brain interprets.

 

[durangodawood]

The difference is we can't see heat in our mind.

We also feel gravity when we jump, and hear vibrations as "sound", but it's an abstraction to compare these things. And using abstract comparisons to come to a seperate conclusion is pure conjecture....

I think it illustrates a principle which you selectively apply.

You should be placing heat in the same category as light for the purpose of separating experience from physical properties.

For heat you could say: "My argument is that the sun is cold as ice, and it's constantly dead cold around us. ... I say that heat does not exist, only the movement of atoms does, and that our human skin has evolved to create a mental perception of heat and from otherwise cold moving atoms, for the benefit of our survival."

 

[Landon Caeli]

Why does a red piece of paper appear red when illuminated with white light?
This is high school science.
Newton discovered in the 17th century when white light passed through a prism it is composed of a spectrum of seven visible colours.
The paper appears red because all the colours of the spectrum with the exception of red are absorbed by the paper while the red light is reflected.

William Herschel over a century later measured the temperature of each colour in the spectrum and found the temperature increased when going from violet to red.
He also found going beyond the red into the non visible part of the spectrum the infrared, the temperature increased even further.

Light is the real deal and not purely a human observation as it has physical properties such as temperature.

Yes, we can observe how photons behave. But what I'm talking about is something else. It's like saying that fire "hurts", and that pain is a universal quality of heat.