Does Jesus love unconditionally? Jesus says, "No"!

[WorthyCause4Christ]

John 15:9-10
As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

How does one spew forth doctrine that Jesus loves unconditionally if the above scriptures, printed in red, show that there is one condition? Keeping the commandments is that condition.

Romans 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Taking John 15:9-10 and Romans 5:8 into account it would appear to paint a picture that God sends love toward us enough to send His Son but we still have to obey the commandments in order to abide in Jesus' love. This would heavily include, firstly, repentance, and lastly, making disciples of the nations (being a living sacrifice).

Does anyone have some input on this theology? Since the above is true; it would appear that there is a false doctrine that, "Jesus loves you no matter what" which gives the mentality of, "I can live in sin and be a Christian, too". A false doctrine we were warned about in the Bible (scripture below).

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

Please, I am still learning. If for some reason I am not rightly dividing the word of God please let me know.

 

[TuxAme]

Jesus does love you no matter what- that doesn't mean He approves of your sins.

 

[dreadnought]

John 15:9-10
As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

How does one spew forth doctrine that Jesus loves unconditionally if the above scriptures, printed in red, show that there is one condition? Keeping the commandments is that condition.

Romans 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Taking John 15:9-10 and Romans 5:8 into account it would appear to paint a picture that God sends love toward us enough to send His Son but we still have to obey the commandments in order to abide in Jesus' love. This would heavily include, firstly, repentance, and lastly, making disciples of the nations (being a living sacrifice).

Does anyone have some input on this theology? Since the above is true; it would appear that there is a false doctrine that, "Jesus loves you no matter what" which gives the mentality of, "I can live in sin and be a Christian, too". A false doctrine we were warned about in the Bible (scripture below).

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

Please, I am still learning. If for some reason I am not rightly dividing the word of God please let me know.

Love sometimes means a kick in the shins.

 

[Unofficial Reverand Alex]

I can't give as good of an answer as I'd like to--I'm still learning, too!
From what I can tell, from this & other Biblical passages, His love is unconditional, it's just that God still operates by justice, too. To abide in His love likely means to be in His grace, and eventually, heaven.
Just as a father loves all of his kids, even if he has to send some to prison, so too God loves us all, even if we choose paths that seperate us from Him.
There's many Biblical passages that mention the need to follow God's commandments, and how He comes to those who search Him, and similar ideas. Proverbs, Sirach, the Gospels, and other books come to mind here.

That's some of what I know about this; I'll be looking more into this, but for now, I'll step back & let someone smarter than me take over.

 

[WorthyCause4Christ]

I can't give as good of an answer as I'd like to--I'm still learning, too!
From what I can tell, from this & other Biblical passages, His love is unconditional, it's just that God still operates by justice, too. To abide in His love likely means to be in His grace, and eventually, heaven.
Just as a father loves all of his kids, even if he has to send some to prison, so too God loves us all, even if we choose paths that seperate us from Him.
There's many Biblical passages that mention the need to follow God's commandments, and how He comes to those who search Him, and similar ideas. Proverbs, Sirach, the Gospels, and other books come to mind here.

That's some of what I know about this; I'll be looking more into this, but for now, I'll step back & let someone smarter than me take over.

My mother also made the statement of it probably regarding His grace but I told her the word, "love" doesn't equate to, "grace" (well, unless there is scripture to back said statement that, "abiding in His love" means, "His graces").

 

[RDKirk]

John 15:9-10
As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

How does one spew forth doctrine that Jesus loves unconditionally if the above scriptures, printed in red, show that there is one condition? Keeping the commandments is that condition.

Romans 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Taking John 15:9-10 and Romans 5:8 into account it would appear to paint a picture that God sends love toward us enough to send His Son but we still have to obey the commandments in order to abide in Jesus' love. This would heavily include, firstly, repentance, and lastly, making disciples of the nations (being a living sacrifice).

Does anyone have some input on this theology? Since the above is true; it would appear that there is a false doctrine that, "Jesus loves you no matter what" which gives the mentality of, "I can live in sin and be a Christian, too". A false doctrine we were warned about in the Bible (scripture below).

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

Please, I am still learning. If for some reason I am not rightly dividing the word of God please let me know.

Well, first, who actually says, "Jesus loves you no matter what" and in what context?

 

[Not me]

God is an ocean of love. To all that are willing to accept it. But the nature of love is to heal all that is wrong and sin is wrong. God would have you live in His love but to do that you have to be healed of all unrighteousness.

Henceforth is command to keep His commandments,

Peace and joy in Christ. Not me.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Did you read the Statement of Purpose for Traditional Theology? It should have been in red before you could enter the forum.

I ask because I'm not sure what kind of discussion you want. If you wish to discuss the question in light of different Traditions, this would be the place. But it would be inappropriate to speak of any Tradition "spewing forth doctrine" that you don't agree with.

If you want to discuss the topic generally with fewer restrictions, perhaps you'd prefer General Theology?

Otherwise the thread here risks replies straying into rule violations and/or the thread closed down.

Please let me know if I should put in to have it moved for you.

John 15:9-10
As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

How does one spew forth doctrine that Jesus loves unconditionally if the above scriptures, printed in red, show that there is one condition? Keeping the commandments is that condition.

Romans 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Taking John 15:9-10 and Romans 5:8 into account it would appear to paint a picture that God sends love toward us enough to send His Son but we still have to obey the commandments in order to abide in Jesus' love. This would heavily include, firstly, repentance, and lastly, making disciples of the nations (being a living sacrifice).

Does anyone have some input on this theology? Since the above is true; it would appear that there is a false doctrine that, "Jesus loves you no matter what" which gives the mentality of, "I can live in sin and be a Christian, too". A false doctrine we were warned about in the Bible (scripture below).

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

Please, I am still learning. If for some reason I am not rightly dividing the word of God please let me know.

 

[Zatek]

Love has many different meanings and different words in different languages. If you aren't clarifying what different greek or hebrew words you're citing and what your interpretation of it is then this discussion is going nowhere.

 

[~Anastasia~]

As for an answer from an Orthodox perspective - we know that God IS love. He is a loving God. But how we perceive that love might not fit a simple definition. He desires what is best for each person. That does not mean that He would ignore sin and allow us to wallow in it with His full approval.

Sin is it's own consequence. God doesn't turn against us or hate us because we sin. But loving our sin can twist our hearts against God and make us hate Him. So that in the end, even His love is a torment to us - experienced as a consuming fire - if we love our sin more than God. Because we won't be free to engage in sin in the body and away from the direct presence of God forever.

God IS agape-love, which is unconditional. But it unwaveringly desires the best and highest good for the one that is loved.

 

[Haipule]

John 15:9-10
As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

How does one spew forth doctrine that Jesus loves unconditionally if the above scriptures, printed in red, show that there is one condition? Keeping the commandments is that condition.

Romans 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Taking John 15:9-10 and Romans 5:8 into account it would appear to paint a picture that God sends love toward us enough to send His Son but we still have to obey the commandments in order to abide in Jesus' love. This would heavily include, firstly, repentance, and lastly, making disciples of the nations (being a living sacrifice).

Does anyone have some input on this theology? Since the above is true; it would appear that there is a false doctrine that, "Jesus loves you no matter what" which gives the mentality of, "I can live in sin and be a Christian, too". A false doctrine we were warned about in the Bible (scripture below).

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

Please, I am still learning. If for some reason I am not rightly dividing the word of God please let me know.

There are four words in the Greek translated by the English word "love". We are talking about agapE.

agapE means: to take an active interest in another person in any capacity up to, and including, sexuality.

So yes, of course there are conditions!

Even John said, "Do not love(take an active interest in) the world".

I not sure where "unconditional love" or "impersonal love" came from.

To take an active interest hast to be conditional and can not be impersonal.

 

[~Anastasia~]

There are four words in the Greek translated by the English word "love". We are talking about agapE.

agapE means: to take an active interest in another person in any capacity up to, and including, sexuality.

So yes, of course there are conditions!

Even John said, "Do not love(take an active interest in) the world".

I not sure where "unconditional love" or "impersonal love" came from.

To take an active interest hast to be conditional and can not be impersonal.

If I may ask, where did you find your definition? If we are going to build doctrines off word definitions (not that I am advocating that), we need to be assured that they are absolutely correct.

"To take an active interest" seems far too - casual. I might take an active interest in a local dog show. That doesn't mean I "agape" it.

Maybe we are talking past one another a bit.

 

[WorthyCause4Christ]

Did you read the Statement of Purpose for Traditional Theology? It should have been in red before you could enter the forum.

I ask because I'm not sure what kind of discussion you want. If you wish to discuss the question in light of different Traditions, this would be the place. But it would be inappropriate to speak of any Tradition "spewing forth doctrine" that you don't agree with.

If you want to discuss the topic generally with fewer restrictions, perhaps you'd prefer General Theology?

Otherwise the thread here risks replies straying into rule violations and/or the thread closed down.

Please let me know if I should put in to have it moved for you.

I do apologize... I took an assumption that the rules were similar to other forums. I am still fairly new and will accept a 'moving' of this post to General Theology.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I do apologize... I took an assumption that the rules were similar to other forums. I am still fairly new and will accept a 'moving' of this post to General Theology.

No problem.

I just think it will allow you to have the discussion it looks like you want to have. The topic here is limited.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Long answer:
Yes, Jesus loves everyone unconditionally.

Short answer:

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Francis Drake]

Just as a father loves all of his kids,

Your analogy is interesting, but breaks down because not all men are his kids. ie. they are not born of God's Spirit.
Remember what Jesus said to the Pharisees, "You are of your father the devil............!"
You would be hard pressed the show that Jesus loved those particular Pharisees.

 

[ViaCrucis]

You would be hard pressed the show that Jesus loved those particular Pharisees.

I guess it bears repeating.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[gordonhooker]

Your analogy is interesting, but breaks down because not all men are his kids. ie. they are not born of God's Spirit.
Remember what Jesus said to the Pharisees, "You are of your father the devil............!"
You would be hard pressed the show that Jesus loved those particular Pharisees.

Hmmm OK - you can play lawn bowls, right?

 

[Francis Drake]

Hmmm OK - you can play lawn bowls, right?

Goodness me Gordon, it took me ages to work that one out!

So no, Francis Drake gave up the bowls some time back. Sinking Spanish ships was much more fun.

 

[gordonhooker]

Goodness me Gordon, it took me ages to work that one out!

So no, Francis Drake gave up the bowls some time back. Sinking Spanish ships was much more fun.

I actually have a set of Drake’s Pride International bowls so I know the story.