Does it actually make a difference who's saying it? Why?

[LovebirdsFlying]

Sometimes it seems to me that my husband, while not outright sexist or misogynist, can totally ignore whatever I say. I can tell him and tell him, and it just goes whoosh right over his head. Then a man comes along and says the same thing I've been saying, and he listens.

Among recent examples are the pastor telling him that yes, the grab bars in the shower really were a medical necessity for me. As such, they shouldn't have been categorized with "home improvement," like fixing a screen door, and put off until he got around to it. They should have taken priority, just as a doctor's visit would take priority over going grocery shopping if I were sick or injured. As long as I was saying it, he wouldn't budge, but when the pastor said it, he paid attention.

Then there's the wedding coming up in two days. My honorary granddaughter is the bride. My daughter almost married her father, but didn't, thank God. He ended up losing his parental rights, and his kids went to foster care, but she's grown now. Because she's an adult and can go where she pleases, she's connected herself to our family again, and she still calls us Grandma and Grandpa. Last year, she married a man she had gone to Sunday School with when they were children, at the church we used to take her to. It was a courthouse ceremony. Now they want to have a church ceremony so everyone can be involved.

My husband wasn't going to go, much less walk her down the aisle as she had requested. Then the step-father of the groom (who is also a member of our church AND a co-worker of my husband's) pointed out that it's a position of honor. My husband is the closest thing she has to a "father of the bride" who is, as he worded it, "worthy of the title." Now he is considering going ahead with it.

I understand that my husband has social anxiety and doesn't like to have attention focused on him. I am not unsympathetic to that. It's true that he was the same way at his mother's wedding, and it's also true that when he was baptized in that church (immersion) he wanted me to stand in the baptismal with him so he wouldn't have all eyes on him. When we first joined that church, as a matter of fact, he couldn't leave fast enough after service. He just doesn't like attention. I get it.

The thing is, when I said the same thing about him being the closest thing to "father of the bride," and us being the only family she has, well, whoosh. But a man can say it, and he hears.

I know there has been a study done on why men often don't listen to women. The theory goes that they process a woman's voice with the same part of the brain that they process music, so when she speaks, all he hears is a pretty melody. But is there more to it than that? Does he subconsciously freeze it out as nagging, even if it isn't?

 

[RDKirk]

My wife does the same thing to me. I tell her something and it means nothing; she hears it from a television "authority" and it's suddenly the truth.

But then, to be honest, that's not always true. I have just emphasizes in my own mind few times it has happened.

I learned in leadership courses that people don't do things for your reasons, they do things for their reasons. So you have to figure out how to make what you want done something they want done (Paul's letter to Philemon is an excellent case of this for in-depth study).

In the two cases you mentioned, I'd point out that the convincing arguments were pretty clear "manspeak." Your husband is a man who believes he should do manly things. Your arguments were from your viewpoint. Those men were able to translate what you wanted him to do into manly things.

 

[Episaw]

Sometimes it seems to me that my husband, while not outright sexist or misogynist, can totally ignore whatever I say. I can tell him and tell him, and it just goes whoosh right over his head. Then a man comes along and says the same thing I've been saying, and he listens.

Among recent examples are the pastor telling him that yes, the grab bars in the shower really were a medical necessity for me. As such, they shouldn't have been categorized with "home improvement," like fixing a screen door, and put off until he got around to it. They should have taken priority, just as a doctor's visit would take priority over going grocery shopping if I were sick or injured. As long as I was saying it, he wouldn't budge, but when the pastor said it, he paid attention.

Then there's the wedding coming up in two days. My honorary granddaughter is the bride. My daughter almost married her father, but didn't, thank God. He ended up losing his parental rights, and his kids went to foster care, but she's grown now. Because she's an adult and can go where she pleases, she's connected herself to our family again, and she still calls us Grandma and Grandpa. Last year, she married a man she had gone to Sunday School with when they were children, at the church we used to take her to. It was a courthouse ceremony. Now they want to have a church ceremony so everyone can be involved.

My husband wasn't going to go, much less walk her down the aisle as she had requested. Then the step-father of the groom (who is also a member of our church AND a co-worker of my husband's) pointed out that it's a position of honor. My husband is the closest thing she has to a "father of the bride" who is, as he worded it, "worthy of the title." Now he is considering going ahead with it.

I understand that my husband has social anxiety and doesn't like to have attention focused on him. I am not unsympathetic to that. It's true that he was the same way at his mother's wedding, and it's also true that when he was baptized in that church (immersion) he wanted me to stand in the baptismal with him so he wouldn't have all eyes on him. When we first joined that church, as a matter of fact, he couldn't leave fast enough after service. He just doesn't like attention. I get it.

The thing is, when I said the same thing about him being the closest thing to "father of the bride," and us being the only family she has, well, whoosh. But a man can say it, and he hears.

I know there has been a study done on why men often don't listen to women. The theory goes that they process a woman's voice with the same part of the brain that they process music, so when she speaks, all he hears is a pretty melody. But is there more to it than that? Does he subconsciously freeze it out as nagging, even if it isn't?

The fact is if a man says he will do something you don't have to remind him every six months.

 

[DaisyDay]

My husband is just the opposite - I have to be careful what I say because he is unusually susceptible to being influenced by what I say, for better or worse (BPD).

But there are somethings I can tell him over and over ("Don't cut down the pawpaw tree!") but he'll do it anyway - but he'd do it no matter who told him not to. I don't know why - spite maybe?

 

[Dave-W]

I have to be careful what I say because he is unusually susceptible to being influenced by what I say, for better or worse (BPD).

I am kind of that way my self. I listen very closely to what my wife says. (closer sometimes than she would want me to) I have based large actions off of what she said as an offhanded comment that she forgot 30 seconds later ....

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

If it's "manspeak," and that's what gets his attention, how come I can say the same thing in the same words, and he doesn't hear it?

 

[*LILAC]

Sounds like my husband. I can tell him something and he ignores it. Someone else tells him the exact same thing I said and suddenly he pays attention! I don't know why this happens.

 

[DaisyDay]

If it's "manspeak," and that's what gets his attention, how come I can say the same thing in the same words, and he doesn't hear it?

It's just the way it is - that's the man you married. As long as you know about it, you can work around it by getting your pastor or some guy to run interference for you, if that's what it takes. If you can, try and see the humor in it (or else you'll wind up bitter).

Would it work if you said, "You know, Pastor Jeff said [whatever] - what do you think?" as though it's not coming from you?

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Honestly, I think it's a case of being desensitized to your spouses opinion because you know they'll be on your side. I do it to my husband ALL. THE. TIME. My treatments make me fat and bloated, he says "you're pretty" and the first thing I think is "he has to say that" and it doesn't even penetrate. Whereas if somebody else were to say it, I'd feel better as they have no reason to say such a thing.

The shower bar I think could be an issue of fighting back against a honey do list... Something my husband does to me ALL. THE. TIME. It's a combination of him having that secret internal "to do" list that doesn't always line up with mine, but also a difference in how the list is tackled. Like my husband no matter what will go for the simplest tasks first because the more he checks off, he feels like he accomplished more. Whereas if he does a more major task that's more time consuming but more helpful, he will feel like he accomplished less and be frustrated at his lack of productivity.

If that's not it, then it could also be that normal condition of humanity... I will want to do the things that I want to do first before the things I'm told I have to do by somebody else. Lol

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

I was just thinking today, honestly we all sometimes need an opinion confirmed by somebody else before we accept it. I remember when I was a teenager, we were all pretty much trained to shrug off anything my grandfather said. Granted he wasn't always the sanest, most reasonable, or most effective person in the world. He did have some type of personality disorder, even when he was young, and as he got older he began to be even more erratic. Sometimes he was saying the right and proper thing, sometimes he wasn't, but our automatic reflex was to react with an "aw, psssh, there he goes again" kind of attitude. Do I now believe it was wrong to dismiss everything he said, just because he was the one who said it? Of course I do. I'd love the ability to go back in time and correct that. Then again, it's also possible that if people had taken him more seriously, his requests would have become gradually more and more unreasonable, because some people do get off on power and control, and making others hop to it. So, it's complicated. Obviously it's not as cut-and-dried a matter as "men just don't listen to women, and that's that."

I also remember back during my first marriage, the late 1980's, when country singer Keith Whitley died. I'm a classic country music nut. My ex was the one who first informed me. I was in total denial about it, had to hear it from two other sources including the local country music station before I would take it as true, and that hurt his feelings. I can understand why he would think, "Well, how come you didn't believe me when I told you?" It wasn't that I didn't believe *him.* It was that I didn't believe *it.*

Because it could be just that my husband needs to hear something from more than one source before it sinks in, I'll just have to try not to take it personally. Just like I have to try not to take it personally when he asks a question I just answered fifteen minutes ago....

It's all just little things.

 

[Episaw]

I was just thinking today, honestly we all sometimes need an opinion confirmed by somebody else before we accept it. I remember when I was a teenager, we were all pretty much trained to shrug off anything my grandfather said. Granted he wasn't always the sanest, most reasonable, or most effective person in the world. He did have some type of personality disorder, even when he was young, and as he got older he began to be even more erratic. Sometimes he was saying the right and proper thing, sometimes he wasn't, but our automatic reflex was to react with an "aw, psssh, there he goes again" kind of attitude. Do I now believe it was wrong to dismiss everything he said, just because he was the one who said it? Of course I do. I'd love the ability to go back in time and correct that. Then again, it's also possible that if people had taken him more seriously, his requests would have become gradually more and more unreasonable, because some people do get off on power and control, and making others hop to it. So, it's complicated. Obviously it's not as cut-and-dried a matter as "men just don't listen to women, and that's that."

I also remember back during my first marriage, the late 1980's, when country singer Keith Whitley died. I'm a classic country music nut. My ex was the one who first informed me. I was in total denial about it, had to hear it from two other sources including the local country music station before I would take it as true, and that hurt his feelings. I can understand why he would think, "Well, how come you didn't believe me when I told you?" It wasn't that I didn't believe *him.* It was that I didn't believe *it.*

Because it could be just that my husband needs to hear something from more than one source before it sinks in, I'll just have to try not to take it personally. Just like I have to try not to take it personally when he asks a question I just answered fifteen minutes ago....

It's all just little things.

Male/female relationships are very complex. As one sage said, "A clever man can always tell the age of a woman. A wise man never does."

 

[RDKirk]

If it's "manspeak," and that's what gets his attention, how come I can say the same thing in the same words, and he doesn't hear it?

I guess I wasn't clear.

People don't do things for your reasons, they do things for their reasons.

Your husband wants to be manly and do manly things. Another man explained to him that putting up that safety bar was not a "honey do," it was the manly protection of his wife from danger. It became his reason for doing it, because he wants to do the manly thing...protect his wife.

A man explained to him that being desired to walk the young lady down the aisle was recognition that he was the most manly man she knew, except maybe for her own fiance. It was the manly thing to do, and he wants to do the manly thing.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

My confusion is that I *am* using the same logic, and even using a lot of the same words. I *did* explain the the bars were for my safety. We'd gone for months, the bars bought but not hung, while I only took showers when he was home to supervise. He knew I was afraid of falling and hurting myself. He didn't feel adequate to the task himself. He can do home repair, but he works a lot of overtime and is just plain tapped out by the time he's getting any time off. So he wanted to pay a handyman (a man from our church) to do it. Then because he was putting it on par with things like hanging the storm door and repairing the damage to the greenhouse, he wanted to wait until he could pay to have all of it done at once. I was telling him that the shower bars were in a different category from the rest of the home repair, but it fell on deaf ears until the pastor said it.

And I did explain that he's the closest thing the bride has to a father. In this case, the step-father of the groom did use the words "place of honor," where I did not. But the shower bars, I can't point to a single thing the pastor said that I hadn't already said. Maybe it's that he doesn't recognize it as a manly way of thinking, until he hears it from another man?

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

As it turned out, my husband was called in to work. I am witness to the fact that they called him; he did not call them. And he chose the option that would allow him time to at least put in an appearance at the wedding. He had other choices but took that one. He showed up at the church in uniform, greeted the bride, the groom, the pastor, and the rest of the family, signed the guest registry, and then had to leave. At least he was able to show our honorary granddaughter that he does care.

The wedding party then consisted of myself, the groom's mother and step-father, my daughter, my nephew, the bride's younger sister, and the groom's niece.

I'm going to start a separate thread for the wedding. It is a story and a half.