Does Hell exist?

[Der Alte]

Those in Hell will be tormented until Hell is destroyed in the Lake of Fire.
Perhaps it seems like eternity till then since it is timeless.

I joined this forum when G.W.H. Bush was president. I soon realized that the same arguments and scriptures on the "Hell, no!" side are constantly repeated. That being so I started saving my responses and tweaking them every so often as needed as I found additional, historical evidence etc.
One of the arguments against hell is that it was supposedly copied from pagan societies, Dante and a host of other things.
This is primarily for those who have not read this, if you have previously read this feel free to cruise on by.
¢¢…..Concerning only the existence of a Jewish belief in hell not the validity of the historical faith, beliefs, practices etc. of the ancient Jews,
Below are quotes from three credible Jewish sources; the Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud. Which to date have not been and I am convinced cannot be refuted.
…..According to these three sources, among the יהודים/Yehudim/ιουδαιων/Youdaion/Jews in Israel, before and during the time of Jesus, there was a significant belief in a place of everlasting torment of the wicked and they called it both sheol and gehinnom, which are translated Hades and Gehenna, respectively, in both the 225 BC LXX and the NT.
…..There were different factions within Judaism; Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes etc. and different beliefs about resurrection, hell etc. These differing beliefs do not disprove anything in this post.

[1]1917 Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna
The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch … in the "valley of the sons of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). … the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a);[“Soon” in this paragraph would be about 700 BC +/-, DA]​

Note: This is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT any assumed/alleged bias of “modern” Christian translators. DA
This refutes the false narrative that when Jesus mentioned “Gehenna” He was supposedly referring to nonexistent continually burning fires in the valley of GeHinnom where trash and bodies were disposed of.

”(I)n general …sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai [30 BC-90 AD] wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell(B.M. 83b).
“But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab [Talmud]. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).[/i]
“… heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b).[Talmud] “When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [שאול/Sheol] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; [Talmud] comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch [x. 6, xci. 9, etal] also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according toIsa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b)[Talmud].
Link: Jewish Encyclopedia Online
Note, scripture references are highlighted in blue.
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[2]1972 Encyclopedia Judaica:
Gehinnom (Heb. גֵּי בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּי בְנֵי הִנֹּם, גֵּיא בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּיא הִנֹּם; Gr. Γέεννα; "Valley of Ben-Hinnom, Valley of [the Son (s) of] Hinnom," Gehenna), a valley south of Jerusalem on one of the borders between the territories of Judah and Benjamin, between the Valley of *Rephaim and *En-Rogel (Josh. 15:8; 18:16). It is identified with Wadi er-Rababi.
…..During the time of the Monarchy, Gehinnom, at a place called Topheth, was the site of a cult which involved the burning of children (II Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:31; 32:35 et al.; ). Jeremiah repeatedly condemned this cult and predicted that on its account Topheth and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom would be called the Valley of the "Slaughter" (Jer. 19:5–6).
In Judaism the name Gehinnom is generally used as an appellation of the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. The New Testament used the Greek form Gehenna in the same sense.
Link:
Gehinnom
http://www.jevzajcg.me/enciklopedia/Encyclopaedia Judaica, v. 07 (Fey-Gor).pdf
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[3]Talmud -Tractate Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1.
The school of Hillel says: . . . but as for Minim, [i.e. followers of Jesus] informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]:
"And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written[Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more.
Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces."
Link: Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.​

 

[Der Alte]

Previously posted this thread.

.....There is an internet net rumor which many people accept without question. This "rumor" states that all the references to "Gehenna," in the NT, refer to a supposedly continuously burning dump in the valley of Ge Hinnom where trash, bodies etc. were burned.

The traditional explanation that a burning rubbish heap in the Valley of Hinnom south of Jerusalem gave rise to the idea of a fiery Gehenna of judgment is attributed to Rabbi David Kimhi's commentary on Psalm 27:13 (ca. A.D. 1200). He maintained that in this loathsome valley fires were kept burning perpetually to consume the filth and cadavers thrown into it. However, Strack and Billerbeck state that there is neither archaeological nor literary evidence in support of this claim, in either the earlier intertestamental or the later rabbinic sources (Hermann L. Strack and Paul Billerbeck, Kommentar zum Neuen Testament aus Talmud and Midrasch, 5 vols. [Munich: Beck, 1922-56], 4:2:1030). Also a more recent author holds a similar view (Lloyd R. Bailey, "Gehenna: The Topography of Hell," Biblical Archeologist 49 [1986]: 189.
Source, Bibliotheca Sacra / July–September 1992
http://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/ted...Articles/BSac-NT/Scharen-GenenaSyn-Pt1-BS.htm​

…..Note there is no “archaeological nor literary evidence in support of this claim, [that Gehenna was ever used as a garbage dump] in either the earlier intertestamental or the later rabbinic sources” If Gehenna was ever used as a garbage dump there should be broken pottery, tools, utensils, bones, etc. but there is no such evidence.

“Gehenna is presented as diametrically opposed to ‘life’: it is better to enter life than to go to Gehenna. . .It is common practice, both in scholarly and less technical works, to associate the description of Gehenna with the supposedly contemporary garbage dump in the valley of Hinnom. This association often leads scholars to emphasize the destructive aspects of the judgment here depicted: fire burns until the object is completely consumed. Two particular problems may be noted in connection with this approach. First, there is no convincing evidence in the primary sources for the existence of a fiery rubbish dump in this location … Secondly, the significant background to this passage more probably lies in Jesus’ allusion to Isaiah 66:24.”
(“The Duration of Divine Judgment in the New Testament” in The Reader Must Understand edited by K. Brower and M. W. Ellion, p. 223, emphasis mine)
G. R. Beasley-Murray in Jesus and the Kingdom of God:
“Ge-Hinnom (Aramaic Ge-hinnam, hence the Greek Geenna), ‘The Valley of Hinnom,’ lay south of Jerusalem, immediately outside its walls. The notion, still referred to by some commentators, that the city’s rubbish was burned in this valley, has no further basis than a statement by the Jewish scholar Kimchi (sic) made about A.D. 1200; it is not attested in any ancient source.” (p. 376n.92)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/20113-the-burning-garbage-dump-of-gehenna-is-a-myth/​

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Miqweh of Second Temple Period. ......Jerusalem City-Dump in the Late Second Temple Period, ZDPV, 119/1 (2003),
The chance discovery of an Early Roman city dump (1st century CE) in Jerusalem has yielded for the first time ever quantitative data on garbage components that introduce us to the mundane daily life Jerusalemites led and the kind of animals that were featured in their diet. Most of the garbage consists of pottery shards, all common tableware, while prestige objects are entirely absent. Other significant garbage components include numerous fragments of cooking ovens, wall plaster, animal bones and plant remains. Of the pottery vessels, cooking pots are the most abundant type.
…..Most of the refuse turns out to be “household garbage” originating in the domestic areas of the city, while large numbers of cooking pots may point to the presence of pilgrims. Significantly, the faunal assemblage, which is dominated by kosher species and the clear absence of pigs, set Jerusalem during its peak historical period apart from all other contemporaneous Roman urban centers.
...
Recently, the contemporaneous city-dump was identified on the eastern slope of the south-eastern hill of Jerusalem in the form of a thick mantle (up to 10 m, 200,000 m3 ) (Reich and Shukron 2003). The dump is located roughly 100 m outside and south-east of the Temple Mount on the eastern slope of the Kidron Valley (fig. 1), and extends at least 400 m and is 50–70 m wide. Large amounts of pottery and coins date the dump to the Early Roman period (the 1st century BCE and the 1st century CE up to the destruction of the city by the Romans in 70 CE). A preliminary study of the garbage (Bouchnik, Bar-Oz and Reich 2004; Bouchnik et al. 2005) showed the presence of animal bones.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...udy_of_the_City-Dump_of_Early_Roman_Jerusalem
Jerusalem’s Garbage

 

[SkyWriting]

I joined this forum when G.W.H. Bush was president. I soon realized that the same arguments and scriptures on the "Hell, no!" side are constantly repeated. That being so I started saving my responses and tweaking them every so often as needed as I found additional, historical evidence etc.

I alter my views based on research that is a result of challenges. Whatever challenges I get, I investigate the rebuke. If the rebuke has merit, I change my stand. If the rebuke is "I don't need to explain myself" then I assume the complaint is groundless.

 

[Saint Steven]

The dead are raised from the grave on the last day (not before).

What is your definition of "the grave"?

 

[Der Alte]

I alter my views based on research that is a result of challenges. Whatever challenges I get, I investigate the rebuke. If the rebuke has merit, I change my stand. If the rebuke is "I don't need to explain myself" then I assume the complaint is groundless.

Am I to understand that you think I have said something to the effect "I don't need to explain myself?"

 

[SkyWriting]

Am I to understand that you think I have said something to the effect "I don't need to explain myself?"

I didn't intend for it to reflect on you.

 

[Der Alte]

I didn't intend for it to reflect on you.

No problem,.

 

[eleos1954]

What is your definition of "the grave"?

When we die earthly death (wherever our earthly body is) that is our grave, our earthly bodies decay (ie turn to dust).

Philippians 3:21

20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who, by the power that enables Him to subject all things to Himself, will transform our lowly bodies to be like His glorious body.

Job 19:26
Even after my skin has been destroyed, yet in my flesh I will see God.

Psalm 17:15
As for me, I will behold Your face in righteousness; when I awake, I will be satisfied in Your presence.

We get new bodies ... heavenly ones (at resurrection) not perishable.

1 Corinthians 15:40-50

40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.
41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;
43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;

44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being” ; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual.
47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven.
48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven.

49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.
50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.
41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;
43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being” ; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual.
47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven.
48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven.

49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.
50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

 

[Saint Steven]

When we die earthly death (wherever our earthly body is) that is our grave, our earthly bodies decay (ie turn to dust).

But you referred to THE grave. Not a grave, or our grave.

Saint Steven said: ↑
What is your definition of "the grave"?

The dead are raised from the grave on the last day (not before).

 

[JulieB67]

I believe there's a gulf at this point in Heaven as Christ described in his Luke scriptures. And I believe there is a Lake of Fire that some will be sentenced to after Judgement day. That is the second death. Do I believe people will be burning for all eternity? No. I believe all that will be done with when we get the new Heaven and Earth.

 

[eleos1954]

But you referred to THE grave. Not a grave, or our grave.

Saint Steven said: ↑
What is your definition of "the grave"?

The grave is death .... non-existence .... we turn to dust.
It's creation in reverse.

Genesis 3:19

In the sweat of your face shall you eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you shall return.

Romans 6:23

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Revelation 20:13

And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.

Romans 6:9

We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him.

1 Corinthians 15:55-57

“O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?” The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[eleos1954]

But you referred to THE grave. Not a grave, or our grave.

Saint Steven said: ↑
What is your definition of "the grave"?

The grave is another word for describing death. Non existence (death) is referenced different ways in His Word (grave, death, sleep, hell, Sheol, hades).

On the cross, Jesus forever defeated death. The book of Romans says, “He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification” (Romans 4:25).The grave (death) could not hold Jesus; He defeated it from the inside out. He died to pay for our sins and the proof that it worked is demonstrated in the fact the He rose from the dead.

We look forward to being resurrected ... brought to life from death (the grave).

 

[Andrewn]

This is a VERY crazy and stupid question but… does Hell exist yet?
Revelation 20:14-15
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Does Hell not exist until the end of the world? These verses seem to imply that people do not go to Hell until the time in Revelation.

You've already received 71 replies, but I think my POV is different.

Hell is obviously an English word. So, let's check the Oxford dictionary for what it means to contemporary people:

"A place regarded in various religions as a spiritual realm of evil and suffering, often traditionally depicted as a place of perpetual fire beneath the earth where the wicked are punished after death."

Clearly this definition applies to the Lake of Fire.

So, the verse you quoted basically says that hell was cast into hell, which is nonsense.

The problem is that the first hell is not hell at all, according to contemporary English. Since the NT was written in Greek, let's just use the Greek word.

Then we would read, "Death and hades were cast into hell." Now this makes sense and I can answer your questions.

Q: Does hell exist yet?

Answer: No one is in hell, yet. Death and hades will be cast into hell after the resurrection of the body and the final judgment.

Q: Does Hell not exist until the end of the world? These verses seem to imply that people do not go to Hell until the time in Revelation.

Answer: You're right. People do not go to hell until the end of the world.

 

[Saint Steven]

The grave is death .... non-existence .... we turn to dust.
It's creation in reverse.

The Creed say that Jesus was raised from the grave, yet he was laid in an above ground tomb. And where was he for three days before his resurrection? (in the heart of the earth - where is that?)

Matthew 12:40 NRSV
For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so for three days and three nights the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth.

 

[Saint Steven]

The Creed say that Jesus was raised from the grave, yet he was laid in an above ground tomb. And where was he for three days before his resurrection? (in the heart of the earth - where is that?)

Matthew 12:40 NRSV
For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so for three days and three nights the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth.

I should add this reference. @eleos1954

Ecclesiastes 9:10 NIV
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.

 

[Saint Steven]

I should add this reference. @eleos1954

Ecclesiastes 9:10 NIV
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.

Might as well give the whole presentation while I am at it.

Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Note: Christ was laid in an above ground tomb.
Question: Where is the heart of the earth?
Answer: the realm of the dead

1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

Ephesians 4:8-10
This is why it says:
“When he ascended on high,
he took many captives
and gave gifts to his people.”
9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also
descended to the lower, earthly regions?
10 He who descended is the very one who ascended
higher than all the heavens,
in order to fill the whole universe.)

1 Peter 4:6 NRSV
For this is the reason the gospel was proclaimed even to the dead, so that, though they had been judged in the flesh as everyone is judged, they might live in the spirit as God does.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

 

[Der Alte]

The lake of fire passages, in context.

Revelation 2:11 'Whoever has an ear should listen to what the Spirit is saying to the Churches. The one who overcomes will not be harmed by the second death.
Rev 20:6 This is the first resurrection. 6 and ho1y is the one who has part in the first resurrection! Over these, the second death has no power, but they will be priests” of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.
Rev 19:20 But the beast was captured and with him the false prophet who worked the signs in his sight and by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who expressed adoration to his image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.2 ​

And 1000 years later, the beast and the false prophet, who is a person, are still in the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and [they] shall be tormented [plural verb] day and night for ever and ever.
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.​

The lake of fire [LOF] is called “the second death” twice in Rev. vss. 20:14 and 21:8. While this is true, Rev. never says that anyone is thrown into the LOF then they die.
…..The terms “the lake of fire” and “the second death” are interchangeable.
“The lake of fire” is “the second death” and “the second death” is “the lake of fire,” thus we can see that it is not synonymous with death or destruction.
…..We also see that being thrown into the LOF is not synonymous with death from Rev 19:20, where the beast and the false prophet, who is a person, are thrown into the LOF and 1000 years later, in 20:10 the devil, is thrown into the LOF.
Three living, sentient, beings, are thrown into the LOF but they do not die, they are tormented day and night for ever and ever. There is not one verse in Revelation which says anyone/anything is thrown into the LOF then they/it dies.
…..Rev 20:14 does say death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. Death is the point in time end of life; it has no physical presence and cannot be literally thrown anywhere.
If “hell” refers to the grave, graves are empty holes. Empty cannot be literally thrown anywhere.
Since neither death nor hell could/did die a first death they can’t die a second death.
But there is a scriptural answer which does not involve mixing literal and figurative in one sentence, there is a death and hell which are sentient beings and can be thrown into the LOF.

Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.​

My name for these two sentient beings are “the angel of death” and “the demon of hell. Feel free to call them whatever you want. They are thrown into the LOF and their power to kill ended.
….More verses which show that the LOF is not synonymous with death or destruction.

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Revelation 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.​

. Rev 21:4 says “there shall be no more death” in vs. 5 Jesus said “Behold I make all things new,” vs. 5.
“No more death” but 3 verses later Rev 21:8 says eight groups of the unrighteous “shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is [still] the second death.”
If there is “no more death” after vs. 4 then those thrown into the lake of fire in vs. 8 do not die although it is called the “second death.”.

 

[eleos1954]

The Creed say that Jesus was raised from the grave, yet he was laid in an above ground tomb. And where was he for three days before his resurrection? (in the heart of the earth - where is that?)

Went back and revisited these two stories in their entirety.

Matthew 12:40 NRSV
For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so for three days and three nights the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth.

Heart of the earth .... belly of the fish

Jonah begins this ordeal already in "hell" (as Jesus became immersed in man's sin) then through his prayer, Jonah arrived in Sheol, (death) going down below the mountains just as Sheol is described in Deuteronomy 32:22. Jesus, being in the "heart of the earth" (hell) was to be apart from God, made sin, wounded, along with the crucifixion and THEN he goes down to the bottom of the mountains, after spending time being cast out and billowed by waves. This describes Jesus being separated from God, delivered, beaten and suffering all "in the belly of the whale" and then going down yet further to the depths (death) just as Jonah did.

The grave, death, not even hell separate us from God, only sin does. Only immersed in sin (the heart of man) could put Jesus in the belly of the whale. And THAT is why He sweat blood; not during torture, not standing before Pilate, not facing the cross, but on the night before (Thursday) He experienced separation from the Father. The night His righteousness was removed and He BECAME SIN. It was the night He was betrayed, exactly three days and three nights before He rose again.

Jesus death experience (separation from God) began when sin was laid upon Him in the garden of Gethsemane the night before His crucifixion.

Heart of the Earth

Heart - definitions (greek)

Strong's Number: G2588

Greek Base Word: καρδία
Usage: (+ broken-)heart(-ed)

Definition: The heart, i.e., (figuratively) the thoughts or feelings (mind); also (by analogy) the middle.

Detailed definition:

The heart.
That organ in the animal body which is the center of the circulation of the blood, and hence was regarded as the seat of physical life.
Denotes the center of all physical and spiritual life.
The vigour and sense of physical life.
The center and seat of spiritual life.
The soul or mind, as it is the fountain and seat of the thoughts, passions, desires, appetites, affections, purposes, endeavors.
Of the understanding, the faculty and seat of the intelligence.
Of the will and character.
Of the soul so far as it is affected and stirred in a bad way or good, or of the soul as the seat of the sensibilities, affections, emotions, desires, appetites, passions.
Of the middle or central or inmost part of anything, even though inanimate.

Strong's #2836: koilia (pronounced koy-lee'-ah)

from koilos ("hollow"); a cavity, i.e. (especially) the abdomen; by implication, the matrix; figuratively, the heart:--belly, womb.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon:
koilia

1) the whole belly, the entire cavity
1a) the upper [i.e. stomach] and the lower belly are distinguished
2) the lower belly, the lower region, the receptacle of the excrement
3) the gullet
3a) to be given up to the pleasures of the palate, to gluttony
4) the womb, the place where the foetus is conceived and nourished until birth
4a) of the uterus of animals
5) the innermost part of a man, the soul, heart as the seat of thought, feeling, choice

Part of Speech: noun feminine

Relation: from koilos ("hollow" )

Strongs

koilia: belly
Original Word: κοιλία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: koilia
Phonetic Spelling: (koy-lee'-ah)
Short Definition: belly, womb, the inner man
Definition: belly, abdomen, heart, a general term covering any organ in the abdomen, e.g. stomach, womb; met: the inner man.

Both experienced conscience separation from God before actual death (mental agony).

NOTE: Many assume the 3 days/nights refer to only time spent in the tomb (and this is mathematically time-wise impossible) .... when in actuality the entire experience should be included .... separation from the Father (great mental agony) began the night before (Thursday) when all sin (sins past, present, future were laid upon Him) ..... and that explains the 3 days/nights "dilemma" some have. Jesus was separated from the Father for 3 days/3nights with the final end being death.

There are, of course, several other similarities between the two experiences, but here am just addressing the one related to belly of the fish/heart of the earth as you brought up.

In summary .... separation from God represents belly of the fish/heart of the earth.

 

[eleos1954]

I should add this reference. @eleos1954

Ecclesiastes 9:10 NIV
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.

Yep .... the dead know nothing.

 

[Saint Steven]

In summary .... separation from God represents belly of the fish/heart of the earth.

If that is the case, what was Jesus saying about himself?

Matthew 12:40 NIV
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.