Does Hebrews 3 and 4 do away with Sabbath?

Joe67 · Jul 27, 2010

Byfaithalone1 said:
So am I "in the law" or am I "without law?"
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23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
25whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;
26for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
27Where then is boasting? It is excluded By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

BFA

BFA,

Amen and amen.

Now let us go on unto perfection and "LOVE OUR NEIGHBOR AS OURSELVES", and fulfill the "law of Christ", "the law of the Spirit of life", being "under the law to Christ" as we "fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ for his Body's sake, his church."

We that are strong (eat all things and observe every day alike) ought to bear the infirmities of the weak (those who eat herbs and set one day above another). Then we will be found in the "PRINCE OF PEACE" as he returns for his Body, and we will have increased joy in our Lord in those whom God has given unto to bring to Jesus, and to nurture up in Christ until they have legs to stand and wings to fly.

Thus those who have increased the gift of Christ will be given that which was hidden in the earth by the servant who thought of his master as a hard man, reaping where he had not sown. The gift can only increase through the ministry of the spirit and the new creation that is in the risen Christ Jesus.

Joe

Byfaithalone1 · Jul 28, 2010

Joe67 said:
The gift can only increase through the ministry of the spirit and the new creation that is in the risen Christ Jesus.

If this is true, why do we need the other admonitions you listed? If the Spirit is capable of creating good fruits, why don't we live as though we believe it and stop obsessing about the things we think we can bring to the table? The only thing that I bring to the table are my filthy rags.

It is true that, if a person could truly be a "doer of the law," he would justify himself. However, there are no "doers of the law." It is for this reason that we are in need of a Savior. It is for this reason that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

"We who are Jews by birth and not 'Gentile sinners' know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified. "If, while we seek to be justified in Christ, it becomes evident that we ourselves are sinners, does that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! If I rebuild what I destroyed, I prove that I am a lawbreaker. For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"

BFA

Joe67 · Jul 28, 2010

Byfaithalone1 said:
If this is true, why do we need the other admonitions you listed? If the Spirit is capable of creating good fruits, why don't we live as though we believe it and stop obsessing about the things we think we can bring to the table? The only thing that I bring to the table are my filthy rags.

It is true that, if a person could truly be a "doer of the law," he would justify himself. However, there are no "doers of the law." It is for this reason that we are in need of a Savior. It is for this reason that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
"We who are Jews by birth and not 'Gentile sinners' know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified. "If, while we seek to be justified in Christ, it becomes evident that we ourselves are sinners, does that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! If I rebuild what I destroyed, I prove that I am a lawbreaker. For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"

BFA

BFA,

The doing of the law in Romans 2:13 is the same as the fulfilling of the law in Galatians 5:14.

Gal 6:2
2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. KJV

1 Cor 9:20-21
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. KJV

Joe

Byfaithalone1 · Jul 29, 2010

Joe67 said:
The doing of the law in Romans 2:13 is the same as the fulfilling of the law in Galatians 5:14.

Says who?

BFA

Joe67 · Jul 29, 2010

Byfaithalone1 said:
Says who?

BFA

BFA,

1 John 3 is a wonderful witness regarding this issue.

It begins with our calling unto the sonship of God and the hope of his appearing. Then it moves through the question of our relationship to sin and righteousness. Then it witnesses to our relationship with our brother and that the keeping of the commandments is believing in the name of our Lord and the loving of each other as our Lord Jesus commanded.

Therein we are IN HIM and he is IN US through his Spirit.

1 John 3:1-3
:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.KJV

Joe

Byfaithalone1 · Jul 29, 2010

Joe67 said:
BFA,

1 John 3 is a wonderful witness regarding this issue.

It begins with our calling unto the sonship of God and the hope of his appearing. Then it moves through the question of our relationship to sin and righteousness. Then it witnesses to our relationship with our brother and that the keeping of the commandments is believing in the name of our Lord and the loving of each other as our Lord Jesus commanded.

Therein we are IN HIM and he is IN US through his Spirit.

1 John 3:1-3
:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.KJV

Joe

After globe-trotting through a series of proof texts -- some of which have been written by a different author to a different audience in a different time period -- will we find anything that suggests that a man is justified by observing the law?

BFA

Adventtruth · Jul 29, 2010

VictorC said:
Romans 2 describes the condition of the Jew and Gentile prior to the Gospel, as a means to show the Gospel necessary to change our disposition of "guilty before God" concluded in Romans 3:19. By what do you find support for a thesis that there something other than justification by faith before God?

I think I understand what you are saying, but I am having a hard time seeing this from the context of chapter 2. Can you kindly show me where it is implied that Paul is speaking in past terms or the condition in past terms? Man has never been justified by law. Or am I simply miss understanding you here Victor?

AT

Sophia7 · Jul 29, 2010

Avonia said:
Where the rubber meets the road is a quick survey of SDA kids on whether the Sabbath seems like a burden or a delight.

There were times, primarily during college, when the Sabbath was a delight to me. However, when I was a child, it was more of a burden; although my parents' rules for what we could do and not do on Sabbath weren't even very strict, it was still a boring day for me most of the time. Later, when my hubby was a pastor, the Sabbath was a burden in a different way because often it was our busiest, most stressful day, not much of a day of rest. Eventually, I found the burdens associated with the Sabbath in Adventism overwhelming, and I found the delights unnecessarily associated with that one day per week.

Sophia7 · Jul 29, 2010

ricker said:
Doesn't sound to bad after some weeks. Kick back in the shade with a big glass of ice tea and read a good book or doze off........

Sounds good.

Sophia7 · Jul 29, 2010

k4c said:
While you're there you might as well ask them if going to church on Sunday, praying, reading their Bibles are a delight as well.

My kids love going to church, praying, and reading their Bibles, and their participation in those activities is not limited to any one day.

Sophia7 · Jul 29, 2010

Byfaithalone1 said:
I wonder if any of us believe that any of these activities represent the seal of God or that there will be a day when people will receive the mark of the beast if they don't do them. I rather doubt it.

BFA

I doubt it, too.

Adventtruth · Jul 29, 2010

Sophia7 said:
There were times, primarily during college, when the Sabbath was a delight to me. However, when I was a child, it was more of a burden; although my parents' rules for what we could do and not do on Sabbath weren't even very strict, it was still a boring day for me most of the time. Later, when my hubby was a pastor, the Sabbath was a burden in a different way because often it was our busiest, most stressful day, not much of a day of rest. Eventually, I found the burdens associated with the Sabbath in Adventism overwhelming, and I found the delights unnecessarily associated with that one day per week.

There where many years we tried to pretend or sike ourselves into thinking the sabbath was a delight but deep down it was a burdon. About the only time it wasn't a burdon was when we ate and had a house bible study. When that was over and we where not sleepy while the sun was still up, it was a budon but we siked ourselves into it being great. You could see every one waiting and sitting around waiting for the sun to go down.

Adventtruth · Jul 29, 2010

ricker said:
Doesn't sound to bad after some weeks. Kick back in the shade with a big glass of ice tea and read a good book or doze off........

As we said while I lived in North Carolina....Only if its sweet tea!

Adventtruth · Jul 29, 2010

k4c said:
While you're there you might as well ask them if going to church on Sunday, praying, reading their Bibles are a delight as well.

Why would it not be if that's what we feel like doing? And if I decided to go to a movie house on Sunday its still a delight...after all we are free to do what ever on any day.

AT

Sophia7 · Jul 29, 2010

StormyOne said:
reading the KJV, definitely a burden....

I've always liked the KJV for its literary qualities although I don't use it much anymore. It's easier to teach kids using other versions, and I usually refer to the NASB now when I want a literal translation.

Adventtruth · Jul 29, 2010

Byfaithalone1 said:
I wonder if any of us believe that any of these activities represent the seal of God or that there will be a day when people will receive the mark of the beast if they don't do them. I rather doubt it.

BFA

Well....all I can tell ya is if one has not the indwelling of the Holy Spirit regardless if we do or don't do....we are none of His.

Sophia7 · Jul 29, 2010

Adventtruth said:
As we said while I lived in North Carolina....Only if its sweet tea!

Eww. I don't like sweet tea. I prefer my tea unsweetened, with lemon slices.

Adventtruth · Jul 29, 2010

Sophia7 said:
Eww. I don't like sweet tea. I prefer my tea unsweetened, with lemon slices.

Well you aint had North Carolina tea...Once you had it theres no going back!

Nice to see you around Sophia!

AT

Joe67 · Jul 29, 2010

Adventtruth said:
Well....all I can tell ya is if one has not the indwelling of the Holy Spirit regardless if we do or don't do....we are none of His.

AT,

He who has the indwelling of the holy Spirit understands that his body is dead because of sin.

Rom 8:9-10
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. KJV

Joe

VictorC · Jul 29, 2010

Adventtruth said:
I think I understand what you are saying, but I am having a hard time seeing this from the context of chapter 2. Can you kindly show me where it is implied that Paul is speaking in past terms or the condition in past terms? Man has never been justified by law. Or am I simply miss understanding you here Victor?

AT

Read Romans 2, and you will find the narrative doesn't even present the Gospel in it. The author's writing style is to present the problem before he introduces the solution, and Romans 2 is where the problem is detailed. The context of the narrative presents its own verbal tense in the past once the solution presents itself in the chapter following.

Does Hebrews 3 and 4 do away with Sabbath?

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